TL;DR: I did enjoy Badehuset in Christiania. I went there together with some people from the Shtandart ship.
Photo taken by tobixen - position: geo:55.673789,12.602089 - 2018-08-12 14:29:25 localtime - CC BY-SA 4.0 - full quality
It says on the entrance door that it's for Christianites - so we politely asked if it was space for us before we entered. My first reaction is that it's a cheap offer - it's an excellent offer for any backpacker that is desperately in need of a shower, as well as any Russian, Finn, Estonian or other sauna-lover that is desperately in need of a sauna, no matter the size of the wallet, anyone should afford 35 DKK for a sauna session. It's also a good offer for anyone else that would like a sauna session, even when not being desperate nor broke.
I even regret bringing my own towel - I had just done all the laundry on the ship and intended to leave the ship without any laundry bag to the borrowers, now I got this wet towel that first has to be dried and then stored somewhere and then washed. I would gladly have paid 10 DKK to borrow a towel if I had known about this offer. I also think it's very good that they have soap/shampoo in the shower - I think it's a bit of a hassle to bring your own, and I do have sort of a handicap when it comes to such things - the probability that I will either forget to bring my own or that I will forget to bring it home is high.
Photo taken by tobixen - position: geo:55.673786,12.602198 - 2018-08-12 14:30:26 localtime - CC BY-SA 4.0 - full quality
Another complementary thing was a reusable plastic cup. I didn't feel much thirsty, but considered that it was a good idea to drink some water after sweating a lot in the sauna.
That's all the photos I have - for one thing, one may be frowned upon for taking photos in Christiania at all, the people (and staff) in the bathhouse may mind if I take photos on the inside, and I also don't want to use the NSFW-tag on the post. If you do mind undressing in front others, the bathhouse is not the right place to go to. Clothes goes off, that's even explicitly written in the rules. Of course one may cover up a bit with a towel - but nobody does. It's not a big problem. For the first ten minutes I actively avoided staring at the ladies, after that it all felt just natural and relaxed.
Badehuset is no luxury spa - but it has the essentials; sinks, mirrors, showers with thermostat, showers with cold water, sauna, possibility to go outside for some fresh air, a cold-water pool for cooling down. It also has some toys and some small pools/buckets for the smallest children to bath and have some fun. There was no thermometer on the wall of the sauna, but it was hot enough. Nobody threw water on the oven to produce Löylya, but there was some facilities for it. The sauna was wood-fired, with the opening on the backside of the sauna so the staff could throw in more wood into the oven without having to enter the sauna. Staff was friendly.
Of course, this is Christiania - one shouldn't be surprised that people are drinking beer or smoking a joint in the staff area - there were also one or two customers firing up a joint, I observed one joint being lit up inside the bathhouse and one outside.
Selected photos available in original quality on IPFS QmQssA1fwTU3bSLznngh1NWwsH3xrrhifpKVpAueL1EoHS. All photos taken available in original quality on IPFS QmVDfMJh1YMmW3ScUyHhUet2Aefzq6w4hHE6MXiJeQ1tgN. The CC BY-SA 4.0 license applies on both photos and article
Hey, @tobixen.
A public bathhouse and sauna would take some getting use to for me, but I've heard that many people enjoy them. As you say, it would be a great place for the backpacker at that price. Any reason why they keep things so low, or is it because it's specifically for the locals?
When you say it's Christiania—does that mean the laws there are more lax than they would be elsewhere in the area, or for that matter, in Denmark? Or are people just more discreet/professional/polite—whatever the proper term would be. :)
Christiania is a self-declared freetown. Mission statement:
The residents consider themselves to be on the outside of regular national laws and regulations. There has been some noise and problems with police and politicians though.
One thing I found intriguing - I read their internal newspaper, it was quite much about the governance and economics of Christiania - but one thing shocked me a bit: the Christiania office of economic matters wanted house rent money paid "electronically by bank" if possible.
Self-declared. Hmmm. Okay. You say there's resistance from both politicians and police, but apparently not enough to get them shutdown. Interesting. So, essentially they're governing themselves based on whatever rules each individual wishes to follow?
Yeah, the banking part would be a red flag, I would think. Unless they somehow have their own bank and it's not based on normal banking rules.
Very interesting place.
They do have some kind of governance there, as I could read in their local newspaper, I guess it's some democratic or consensus-driven processes.
As per the wikipedia article there is no private "ownership" in Christiania, it all belongs to the community. Except, it is a squat after all, officially the property is still owned by the military.
I guess Christiania has become too big and too established to just shut it down. By now it's one of the biggest tourist attractions in Copenhagen. I suppose approving a long-lasting violent campaign to "clean" Christiania would come with a very high political cost.
The weed sales have been shut down some few times, either by the Christianites themselves because things have gotten a bit out of hand, or by brute police force, but only for short periods.
There has been lots of negotiations. The Christianites have earlier accepted that they are dependent on water and renovation and should pay for that. According to the Wikipedia article (and I also so it referenced in some grafitti text on the wall) the latest news is that the Christianites should purchase the land, for a price that is considered below market price. Again according to the Wikipedia article, up through the times there has been many politicians insisting to push private ownership onto the people of Christiania - according to the last agreement it's the Christiania community as such that buys the land. There are worries that there would be class divisions and generally that the community would fall apart if people would be allowed to buy and sell their properties in Christiania.
It's quite amazing that this place exists at all, and somehow manages some kind of self-governing. I've never really understood what rights squatters truly have, but that comes from a mentality that you can buy property and use it for what you will. I guess if you believe that whatever you want can belong to you, or you can just sit on land someone else isn't actively using, then it's all fair game.
I can't blame people for wanting to be free. But I'm not sure I'm all that thrilled with the way they go about it, either.
There is the difference between juridical rights, moral rights and de-facto rights. Laws varies from country to country, ethics and moral reasoning varies from person to person as well as culture to culture ... but in the end of the day, I guess what matters most may be what it's possible to get away with.
That's the most important moral reasoning, I think. Property market is hot, housing costs more than people can afford, and at the same time there are buildings decaying from disuse simply because the owner doesn't care. If the owner anyway doesn't care about the property, then he also shouldn't really care that someone is using it.
There is also the socialistic aspect. Some people are so rich and so greedy that they buy property just as a speculation object without any intention to utilize the property, others have to sleep out in the rain because they cannot afford property. It is not much hard for the poor, wet person to justify the act of squatting the empty house.
Standing on the barricades, demanding to continue living on the place that isn't yours. and even getting prepared for fighting with the police over the eviction, that's another story, I find it much harder to justify that.
Some may think that property rights is an artificial construction that has no moral right. On a related note, I've seen it being argued that property right is just a means to efficiently utilize resources when there is a scarcity of said resources.
While it's possible to own a forest or a mountain in Norway, the commons still have rights to utilize the land. I think the current laws are beautiful as they strike a pretty fair balance between the rights of the property owner and the right of the commons. Some few examples:
Well, so I generally look at things this way.
Would I be okay with someone coming and using my things while I was away, without permission, just because I wasn't using it for a period of time. In that case, there's all kinds of things I have that I would have to give up because they weren't being used on even a fairly regular basis.
The answer is, probably not, and even with folks I may know, including my own children. With them, I'm going to let them know I'm not happy about it and I would make it known that there may be some things I don't mind them using if they let me know, but some other things I would rather they don't touch.
I also find it interesting that these folks that are doing all of this aren't trying to remunerate. They exist, they are in need, and because they exist and are in need, they get. They law allows for them.
Now, I don't know what their circumstances are. I don't know what's happened to them. And I feel I do have some kind of moral duty to aid. I also think I should have a say. I don't feel like I should be compelled.
If people want to work off the time they're staying doing something to at least show a good faith gesture, I can see that. But there's a thin line in many cases between the haves and the have nots, and if society is going to go this route, it needs to be a case by case basis.
I may have a building I'm not occupying, but I have plans for it. I've bought the structure while I can because if I didn't, someone else was going to come along and buy it up. It's going to take me time to do what I need to do with it, but I'm saving money, I'm working on it when I can, and I'm working to make money so I can do more. I'm really putting in an effort and the law allows me that.
In come the squatters. They want to stay there because I'm not occupying it. I don't want them. Maybe I have materials I'm keeping there. Maybe I don't want to clean up after them after they leave. Maybe I'm trying to pre-sell parts of the building to tenants. I don't know.
I don't see me being a part of the fat cat rich people in this instance. And I'm sure there's all kinds of these scenarios that could be played out.
The point is, we may not be all be responsible for where we are at. We may well be a victim of circumstances. By and large, though, there are decisions that are made. There is personal responsibility for ourselves. We might need the help of others and hopefully we can get it, but to basically move in like it belongs to us, like we have any right. I think there's a discussion that needs to take place long before that, and I think there's the desire of the owner that needs to be considered. Otherwise, you'll end up with no one ever wanting to own anything because they get nothing but grief out of it.
So in Russia we tell men who were in the bath.With light steam, @tobixen
And this is for you fragrant herbal tea to make up for the loss of water after the bath.
С лёгким паром! And I've seen the film
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How have i been missing these great travels posts?! Im busy right now but will go back to check out the voyage later!