What is @blocktrades thinking?
https://peakd.com/hiveblockchain/@hiveio/tentative-hardfork-date-hive-hf24-information
the HIVE tokens distributed to the DHF fund will be slow converted into HBD to top up the fund over a several year period and to prevent market flooding.
Oh a several year period, no problem!
So three years? That's 36 months. Hm... @steem.dao... 83M coins total in ninjamine... that's ONLY 2.3M coins per month! Wow, that's like nothing!
Oh wait, that's more than Steemit Inc was selling per month.
We all saw how well that went. Smart.
Seriously has no one done the math on this?
So 5 years then? ONLY 1.38M coins per month. Again, unacceptable. Hive is only supposed to have < 10% inflation per year. This bullshit basically doubles our already high inflation and gifts it to an extreme elite under the guise of development. Well, where's the development?
Show me.
Everyone who's doing any real development already has enough stake in their bank account to make the work they're doing worth it without getting paid extra, aka @blocktrades and friends. The network agreed to pay "someone" $50k for work that had already been done for free. Tell me, did Nike go back and pay the intern millions of dollars for creating the infamous logo? No, more like $20.
Capitalism.
That's how it works. You don't turn around and pay someone that's already done free volunteer work for you. Does a presidential candidate pay back volunteers that helped them get elected? Only the big money players behind closed doors in super shady ways.
It hasn't even been explained HOW this Hive is going to be turned into HBD. They keep using the word "convert" which implies a new function will be created to actually convert Hive for HBD like you can HBD into Hive. The more obvious "solution" is to simply place buy orders on the internal market. Well, @blocktrades, which one is it? How many years is it? Why are these CRITICAL DETAILS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS MISSING AND/OR MADE PUBLIC SO CLOSE TO LAUNCH?
Unprofessional as shit. The ninjamined stake is the most contentious thing about the entire network, and it's being treated like a nothing detail in all these announcements.
Not bearish.
I shouldn't have to explain why I'm not bearish on Hive. I just powered up to 90k coins today. Nuff said. Point proven on-chain without any doubt. This is just one of those little things that needs to be blown out of proportion for a bit so it gets enough eyeballs on it.
fuck-never-send-humans-to-do-a-hobit-s-job
Once again, the events happening now were 100% totally predictable based on the birth of Hive. There are no surprises here, only disappointments.
So the next time you see @therealwolf or any other power-tripping greedy dipshit yapping about how we should get rid of the reward pool before we even have tokens or smart contracts, ask him to focus on the ninjamine instead. I'm not here to make friends with everyone. I'm here to kick ass and take names.
My vow:
I will actually support this network. I will buy low and sell high, you know, that thing that makes you money and supports the network at the same time. Win-win. Guess what time it is right now? It's buying time, not selling time. Fuck off with injecting the ninjamine into the ecosystem right now. Words fall on deaf ears. Not really my problem. Just venting.
My vow part 2:
I'm more motivated than ever to continue development on my Card's Against Humanity clone. The tokenomics of which fit perfectly into this situation. This product will require that users destroy HBD in order to create NFTs within the network. Sounds pretty good in an environment that's potentially about to be flooded by HBD.
When I have a product that I actually think deserves funding, I'll create a proposal for it. Guess what I'm gonna do with those HBD? Send them straight to @null and pump value into my own project. Baller move.
So not only do I think I can create a product/network that has a lot of value, I think I can also directly increase the value of the parent network in the same sweeping motion. Welcome to crypto, it looks like a lot of you at the top still don't get it. Blah blah blah there I go running my mouth again without anything to show for it. I'd say vote @hextech witness, but I'll save that for another day when I actually deserve it.
For anyone following closely, I think it has always been clear that the funds established in the DHF were for future develop/marketing/etc. The code for converting the Hive to HBD has been discussed repeatedly for a long time, including in the public dev discussions and onchain posts.
From my point of view as an investor, I think it's attractive that there are funds available to make sure develop continues regardless of who is doing it. I'm aware that some people disagree, and there was a proposal to "burn" the initial development stake that Hive was established with. It's never got much traction. I think that's because many investors share my opinion that it's good to have funds allocated for future work.
As for the "retroactive" proposals for the work that BlockTrades makes: I've always been very upfront that I mostly plan to make proposals after we complete a task, rather than before we do it. That gives stakeholders an opportunity to judge the completed work, and make a decision if they think it was worth the funds we request. It's a huge benefit to stakeholders, and not one that many developers can afford to offer. I'm willing to operate under such conditions because I believe that stakeholders will recognize the value of our work and be willing to pay for it.
Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. I think the dev fund can easily justify itself in terms of cost vs value, but the network is still in an extremely tenuous centralized state. You are a very large centralized entity that needs to be trusted quite a bit. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just obviously not ideal.
Beggars can't be choosers I guess.
It's true that most of the core development is currently centralized in the BlockTrades team. To attack this problem, one of my main near-term development goals for Hive is to move more of the development work to 2nd layer apps, where new teams can work independently on their own blockchain-based applications.
Of course, that doesn't mean there still won't be accountability issues surrounding the dev work done at the 2nd layer (to the extent that some of it will likely be DHF-funded). But it should enable more devs to make proposals that users won't need to be concerned about in terms of potentially affecting the security of the base blockchain layer.
Well. You found out what Blocktrades is thinking, and so did a few other people. Myself included. Thanks for pushing the bubble.
One thing that stands out. You won't find dialog like the discourse here, on Facebook. Shoot, you won't find it anywhere except the most professional of organizations.
I was just reading another comment thread by @antisocialist and @minismallholdings. Same thing. Being able to discuss our difficulties with civility, even with all the varying opinions, doesn't guarantee our success.
As long as this kind of discourse continues on HIVE (and hopefully gains traction), we stand much less a chance of losing this great opportunity. 👍👍
How about you ask me yourself? 😉
good point
but why do that when i can keep tilting at the windmills fighting invisible enemies?
Well, we both have the same goal, don't we? Making Hive successful and worthwhile to hold. I agree that my idea of removing the global rewards pool is quite futuristic and also problematic without SMTs. And I get that it looks like I'm talking out of my ass, but I'm confident that my PoV will make a lot more sense very soon.
PS: Congrats on 90k HP!
Yep, same team. Indeed.
But you know how things get around here.
You have become one of my foremost sources on Hive news. One would think we are finally out of the woods with this blockchain, I will keep an eye on these developments and see what the other side has to say about it.
Thanks so much for this update dude.
I accidentally commented on a crosspost of this article. Here it is,
Ahhhhhh, I hate to be "that guy" but the intern who designed the Nike logo was later given some shares later when the company got much bigger [Source].
Regardless though, totally get your point. I'd love to see some vote decay on the Hive DAO so that people can't still get paid without producing something for the chain.
Ha. Interesting tidbit. Now did that happen because corporations like to play fair or because they got such bad publicity from it? :D
Hahahaha, good question... I'm sure the answer changes depending on who you ask...
I'm powering up, bit by bit. I'm writing code for a couple of projects I believe will add value to Hive. I also believe that the DHF can be a war chest that (if used efficiently) can fund some serious development on the platform. If used efficiently.
I've written two proposals I think, and though they were never funded, I'm developing more stuff than ever.
In short, I relate to your vows.
Um... yep. This is likely to be a giant overhang on the price of HIVE for years to come. There is very little incentive to have your proposal actually produce any value for HIVE. You just convince a handful of certain whales that your project could provide value and bam, funded. You just keep doing that over and over and you could make a heck of a living as a developer even though you never actually created anything that actually brought value to HIVE, go figure... sounds like a broken model to me. A broken model that is getting tons more money thrown at it, what could go wrong?
it could be that i misunderstood. but funds will be in DAO, that does not mean that it will be distributed. as not all daily funds now are distributed. if i remember correctly there is an possibility to distribute around 5000HBD daily but around 2000+ is distributed.
not sure how will conversion go.
Yeah it's just really shady because we already have enough funding and we can't really afford more downward pressure anyway.
That is some crazy stuff and I love following people with the character to do homework and proudly share results and opinion.
I have always enjoyed @blocktrades for their technology, leadership and open communication. This is worth a closer look though so we understand the finite numbers impacting the blockchain we have chosen as the platform for our businesses.
Did steemit not just liquidate steem into usd off chain to pay people and cover costs? Keeping it on chain and just locking it into hbd seems better but maybe I am not getting it.
Thanks for the passionate education again.
Yes, funneling the money through the dev fund is a lot better than a corporation dumping coins on Binance and Bittrex. I'm just being a drama queen.
Das Svedanya
Still! It is about detail they have the responsibility to disclose as it does effect us. I appreciate you watching this with such passion.
For what it’s worth, I met @blocktrades in Bangkok last fall and he struck me as a stand-up guy.
But yeah
That needs a fuckton of clarity. Slow converted? WTF?
In general, I think @blocktrades is fine.
Like, who else is developing this place?
Where would we be right now in terms of the hostile takeover without them?
Still, alarm bells will always ring when we are this centralized.
I haven't met him. But he strikes me as a decent guy in his actions and communications. I think there's a lack of clarity here and a the fact that there should be more active oversight of the DAO will be even more painfully obvious once the additional inflation kicks in.
Howo pointed out that it was probably better to convert the Hive to HBD slowly instead of all at once, so that the HBD created would be better matched to the value of Hive over time, instead of the value of Hive at a single point in time. Hence "slow converted" instead of an instant conversion.
You lost me at "I will buy low and sell high". What does that mean, and how does it help anyone but yourself? Otherwise, good read. Shenanigans are afoot.
This is kind of a surprising question coming from you, but a good one nonetheless.
When people know when their network is bubbled and when it is deflated, not only can they make extreme profits, but in the process they also stabilize the network. The more people who buy low and sell high... the less volatility a crypto has. Less volatility means more stability. More stability means more trust. More trust means an expanding network, that inevitably bubbles again and the process has to start all over. However, every time it happens liquidity gets larger and larger and the network captures more and more trust and stability.
I'm a bit surprised to be having this conversation with someone who obviously knows the necessities of market-making. On the same note you clearly speak for a lot of other people as well so I guess it makes sense.
Just trying to get a full understanding. I wasn't trying to be confrontational - I really literally meant "how does it help anyone but yourself", not insinuating "you're being selfish" etc. (I should have a "signature" line at the end of all my comments, which explains to people that I don't mince words and just say things as I mean them, sometimes without considering the social implications.)
Your answer was appreciated. I don't agree, but I understand your stance on it.
Such irony. I didn't think you were being confrontational. But apparently you think I am? Or am I just adding to the irony here?
What an interesting interaction to have between two people who don't care about social niceties but understand the impact of their lack of care. lol
Okay that's it, now I KNOW you're trying to start a fight!! Attaaaaack!!
Hheheh, glad we got THAT sorted out! ;D
I get a boner when I read your posts.
I'm curious to read a more in-depth post in relation to that. With the same passionate delivery or in a more objectified manner is up to you.
ah well youre in luck cause ive been thinking about it all day at work for weeks now. got all the details flushed out ill get around to it eventually.
Sweet man I'll stay tuned.
All this fuckery with the ninjamined stake and the DAO is annoying me a lot. I would like to see some kind of improvements regarding that field 'soon'. Hive tokenomics are flawed if we 'just' release that ~80M coins into the supply (and yes, a 5 year vesting period is still unacceptable).
I would burn them straight away. The funds in the DAO are already being misused we seriously want more of that?
Cmon
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Congratz for the powerup though. I have been close to pull the trigger. But sorry but not sorry... Not going to power up more if I'm going to get dumped.
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very understandable.
Word. How that money gets used needs effective oversight so badly it isn't even funny. Not holding my breath, though. The circle of people who decide how the DAO gets used is very small. The typical dynamics of a small circle kick in hard.
I've said it before: the biggest weakness of DPoS is its tendency towards the centralization of stake distribution. This why the author reward pool is indispensable. It is the only thing keeping HIVE from being doomed to remain a shitcoin forever.
I'm not actually buying a single coin until the effect of this is fully priced in.
That said, I still believe the price of HIVE can go crazy come the late stage of the next crypto bull market. To maximize my holdings at that stage, I'm going to need to get in cheap. If the DAO is going to be minting HBD at a much higher rate than today, it is certain that absent sweeping mania on the markets, the price will be floored by this move.
Hm yeah I wouldn't tell anyone to buy until we get back to the 10 cent floor.
Maybe we should fork this blockchain again?
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Haha, no :D
You only fork a network when something devastating happens. This is not devastating, this is totally manageable. Many of the whales on Hive are not devs and have no chance of milking the DHF. This creates a simple system of checks and balances that stems the bleeding quite a bit more than Steemit Inc dumping coins on the exchanges while Ned snorts blow off a hooker's left tit.
Hopefully, that is the case. Thanks for clarification.
Even if it wasn't the case these networks can grow in size and value x2 every year until we hit mainstream adoption. No amount of inflation can negate that growth and potential.
Thank you for your time! I hope that the bitcoin hedge funds are not preventing people from taking their gains to alt blockchains like hive.
What are you even going on about, again?
I like turtles.
I like trains