I pick @haejin to mention because everyone understands that situation even though others are just as bad. Who Will Down Vote Haejin After the Fork?
*I stole this meme out of chat.
The only difference between Traf and Haejin is that Traf isn't vindictive, he is quite pleasant to have a conversation with and he doesn't flag the hell out of people for disagreement, so yeah, those are pretty big differences. The self voting is the same, but the personalities are night and day.
However, if I suddenly DownVote Haejin, because my DVs are cheaper... Well so are his. He can just revenge flag me back the same way he always has... :)
It's like we are socializing the cost of Downvotes at the expense of upvotes and for no reason, because if they are free they are free for everyone at the exact same ratio as before.
I crack up at the way people are talking about this changing anything. :)
Alright Traf, I'll use my free downvotes on you. I'm sure you'll be a good sport about it because it is your idea and you will say... See... It worked. As for the more difficult personalities, I think it will be abused by those abusers in the same way... So, while I hope you are right, I don't think it changes anything.
Anyway, let's keep playing with the Math. At least it woke up some passion and interest.
LOL...
@whatsup,
Actually I ma a big fan of @traf, and honestly I like how he is doing at STEEM blockchain! Yeah it's self voting, but unlike haejin or bernie he behave well and friendly! I don't think he might not go for revenge calls on your actions and I know down voting pool and bad idea and those whales could rage quit people based on their favoritism! I mean we will be like middle of world war 3, that every one has to take a side to stay alive!
Cheers~
Yes much better to rape the rewards pool and be nice about it. As long as they are nice, who cares right 😄
There's a big difference though. In this scenario and all others like it, free downvote or not, he would be able to smash anyone that he chooses. The thing is, it's quite more productive for him to target the other posts that are high because that will increase his return more. That's if the harassment is at the level of a pin prick. And if it isn't, well, he certainly isn't going to be able to stop everyone that targets him. But anyway... We'll see. I plan to exhaust all my flags in those directions.
Could we see more accounts return to the exceedingly late self-vote, or is there something in place to counter these? My memory is hazy on how the 6th day voting plays out as far as up and downvotes - if yours isn't, i'd like to hear your thoughts.
Exceedingly late self vote is as possible now as it was before. That linear degradation of power within the last couple hours. Though interestingly, because downvoting larger rshare posts is more effective, it could help with this kind of effort. Meaning, even though the later you downvote here the less rshares it casts, it can still make an impact, depending on timing. I am making a few assumptions about how it works but I believe it works that way. Have to check.
Thanks for the reply. I can see an increase in late self-votes arriving but it's good to know that a late down-vote would hold more weight due to the proposed curve tweak, down-votes would hold more weight - Eyes peeled then? :)
Wow. I forgot that whales may start downvoting people just to increase their own rewards. ♡♡♡
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Why not just give posting authority to flaggers so they can dole out your free downvotes? If one flagger eventually becomes powerful enough, say 2 million sp, even the biggest wankers won't be able to revenge.
There is a risk wankers will attack anyone delegating to the service or the service will go rogue, but it is what it is.
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Interesting idea, but could have been done with a HF.
You are right and with freedown votes from a profit maximalists perspective you want to dish out as many downvotes as possible to narrow the reward pool while not receiving any yourself and gaining more upvotes.
It will atleast make this dance much more exciting don't you agree?
Start with the abusers, then go after people who annoy me, then the weak.
Personally, I think it would be better to experiment with a token first and not Steem in general, but what the hell do I know?
Posted using Partiko Android
downvoting in action...
Sgt report has 10x more followers on you tube than there are active users on the whole of steemit....
https://steemit.com/blog/@lucylin/still-not-smelling-any-coffee-yet-sgt-report-leaving-steemit-ffs-wake-up
edit: -my post go tdownvoted by BS etc....as if to prove my point. hilarious...
It really did awaken the passion and action. I love reading the strong opinions for and against (mostly against in the circles I follow) and those like me not trying to fight the tide, just find a fun different tactic to surf it.
It has also awoken the punk rock in a bunch of my favourite posters. ;)
Posted using Partiko iOS
Surfing the tide is really good place to be. I should try harder at shutting up. :) Nah...
You change and I am flagging you post fork!
Agreed. The main thing I don’t like about the “free” downvote pool is how it frees up retaliatory flags in a way that benefits the abuser to a larger extent. Using haejin as an example... I can flag him for about 20 cents of damage. In retaliation he’ll come along and flag a few of my $3 to $5 posts down to zero. But what that’s actually done is weaponized all the upvotes on my current posts and turned them into de facto flags! So I win by depriving haejin of $10 worth of self votes. Under the new system, I flag for .20, get retaliated on for $10 and the only value haejin lost was .20 cents. Not $10.20...
Oh yeah, I had all three of his accounts flagging me at one point. :)
Free flags are only an opportunity cost for the defenseless unprotected small accounts that will have no impact, and risk having any future growth stunted perhaps forever thus killing any ethically motivated flagging from the largest majority of active steemians.
All I know is that even though redfish and Minnow witness votes only account for a negligible percentage of total votes they tend to take notice when they lose their votes. Especially, from loud steemians, and definitely from the dolphins that make an impact. Sure, getting the freedom vote trumps all but basically what I'm saying is the only clear course to change is removing all votes for shit witnesses and demanding more professionalism and accountability from our BP. Nothing will change until we overhaul the decision makers..I also cannot express enough how having an anonymous entity like freedom in the shadows is destroying steem from a philosophical standpoint alone. It's a joke and mocks what decentralisation is all about, transparency.
Fear is the dominant currency on this platform. Kiss assery, apathy, and complacency are next.
Yep, I mostly agree.
Integrity shows and so does lack of integrity. If you know what the right thing to do is, and you choose not to do it... because.. Money.
There isn't enough money in the world to change your integrity. But there might be enough to change your behavior. it's gross.
Sigh, what to do... Seems to be a mass of immovable objects in the chain of command..
Posted using Partiko Android
I disagree it is a moral issue to purchase something that someone else has listed for sale. There are dumb decisions and there is a lack of morality those are two different things.
Also self voting vs. deceitful fake accounts are two different things.
To be fair, I can offer you a slave for sale. Or an assassination service. People can offer all sorts of immoral things for sale.
Again, a bad decision and immoral are two very different things.
You make a point, but really are you going to make that comparison?
A lot of people vote with their wallets based on moral decisions. Such as vegans not going to McDonald's - even for a veggie burger. Or people not spending money on clothing if they disagree with the company's child labour policies. And such.
So morality and purchasing decisions do indeed go hand in hand.
Also, who are honosurf and coininstant? And why are people on this chain such children?
What if we didn't name them votes... What if we named them visibility points?
Look I am fine with disagreeing on somethings, at the end of the day...
if no one looks at the site and no one curates it's a problem. Label that problem however you want and we all might see a few points differently...
I don't want to focus on that, if people just Downvoted and Upvoted their own personal preferences that would help a lot even though we would still likely have some places where we disagree. Right now, barely any curation is happening.
Well here the top block producers decide on the code that runs this place don’t they ? And since they are voted in it stands to reason that knowing what the people behind the servers stand for and what or whom they are motivated by should be transparent to all.
The rest of your points are your opinion and moot as they have no weight on the fact that this blockchain is an attempt at democratic consensus stake weighted voting. This isn’t a mere proof of work platform, it’s also heavily influenced by its social mechanisms.
You’re also confusing names with our ability to engage with and determine whom we want running the servers here. It’s not about a name or label it’s absolutely about having no ability to ascertain anything except voting habits from an investor that chooses not to reveal anything about their nature on a social media platform.
That doesn’t build any confidence and does nothing to help the ecosystem to reach a consensus for what is best for all stakeholders.
I’ll stop because I know you are very opinionated and I’m not looking to fight with you or create my own fork or interact with someone demonstrating such hostility.
Okay bud
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I owe you nothing, just like your interpretations of the witnesses. Steem is different things to different people. There are no rules and no reason that I should waste any of my life on you. You're an island and your own circle jerk. I don't like your tone and I assure you I will never be bothered to have any correspondence with you again. I'm not impressed by your word salads and idgaf about your opinions. I didn't believe in muting until I ran into you, so congratulations on further diminishing your maniacal influence. I probably wont mute you because you're not worth another a tap of a touch screen. Ignoring your arrogance and ignorance will be easy. Owe you LMFAO 🤗
I sense a BATTLE ON THE HORIZON.
!popcorn
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I need to read up on how this is expected to work. I've done plenty of downvotes, but Steemflagrewards has paid me back. They just don't have enough power to take on Mr H who has continued taking Steem whilst nobody else supports him. He even has his own trending tag! The whales could deal with abusers if they cared, but it seems profit is all that matters. I do fear for the future of Steem...
Me thinks once it happens he will change his tactic. This is based on thinking he is a business man and will weigh up all the possibilities of him winning long term by continuing to do what he is doing.
Be more like, thanks for all the steem guys. I have now decided to .............. - you dumb fks lol
That would be a very interesting plot twist.
Yup! That.
It's not that downvoting gets abused now by carpet bombing everything out of butthurt.
Gonna be sipping my juice while the place burns down.
It will be okay...
I will be, you will be. It.... meh ;)
Posted using Partiko Android
Hopefully enough passion and interest was sparked in the big whales who will band together against those big-time abusers and wage war. May be ugly for a little while but could curve the behavior. Hard to say where it’ll go. Unless big fish step in to do the flagging, it won’t get any better.
Yep and more yea, time for whales to walk the walk.. It's definitely going to get worse before it gets better. It's basically a demolition job when perhaps a renovation was still possible. Maybe not though, the plumbing and wiring and foundation are failing..
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There are lots of big holders on steem that hates my guts for no reason... I really don't know why HAHA.... I'm going to get destroyed after HF21!
Buy DRAMA and PalNet!
💪☝️
Posted using Partiko Android
Good point!
What if the whales realizes there is no point in downvoting each other because that won't help none of them? Similar size flag and retaliation would take same amount from both the flaggers. If they cannot flag now because they would be losing rewards, won't they lose then?
Many are taking about flagging bid-botted posts, what if the bid bots retalite to protect their loyal customers? One could argue they would lose delegations, IMO 50/50 would sweeten the deal for both delegators and bot owners.
Sorry for the cynicism! :)
Sheez @reazuliqbal. I always wonder why someone would need to apologize for showing some cynicism on public forums sometimes.
Didn't you know yet the following? };)
“Cynic, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are not as they ought to be.”
If they thought the level of content added value to the steem they hold, wouldn't they already be curating? I mean it would be insane to hold a lot of Steem, dislike the content we have and not curate right? That would be crazy.
Maybe traf will start protecting his stake,...
Rofl,...
Don't they claim to be self voting to prevent dilution by 'bad' actors?
I think they keep the daily rshares high because it pushes more off the bottom of the food chain.
If those big accounts stopped flagging and self voting this would be a much more pleasant pool to swim in, imo.
Hell, for all I know it may be all a put on.
There is evidence to support that view.
I mean, you get enough comments to know that only a few scores of us are known to not be sockpuppets.
Real talk though they still have the power do they not? Even if 1,000 people downvotes his post if they don't equal to how much steem they have staked it wont matter and in theory they could downvote your stuff in a heartbeat with a 1% vote in most cases and STILL get rewarded for doing so lol. Or am I still not understanding this right ?
They could downvote now if they wanted to.
Everyone can downvote him after the fork too, he will still go revenge on everyone. It's just how it is.
yeah but, now he can downvote people with lesser power easier and get rewarded for doing so because of the downvote pool. Idk, maybe I am missing something but it seriously makes no sense to me yet lol
yeah, it all equals out the same. Your stake vs. his stake. He get his stake again free and so do you, so the ration of killing you is about the same. :)
OMG this is gunna' be fun after they give us all these extra-free down votes for the war???
That meme is priceless. These whales may seem like they're scary juggernauts (kind or not), but truth be told is that they really don't have that much money in this place as compared to real whales in the world/Bitcoin. Everything is relative to our current community. They could be squashed with ease if bigger money flows into this place, but I'm not holding my breath.
just buy beer. It is the cause and solution to all of the worlds problems - HOMER (not that famous philosopher)
No one will do any diff. Anyone who has enough SP can do what they want, bully who they want, harass who they want, etc. Giving them more power just gives them more power. No one magically becomes a better human with more power from what history shows.... quite the opposite
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Might be better to just mute people
welp... If anyone wants to downvote this comment as one last hoo-ra before the free DVs come in, be my guest :^)
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I agree with the comment of @skramatters regarding the importance of fear in the decision making of minnows and redfish. Nobody wants to risk to upset a whale due to the fear of a flag or downvote.
I will Downvote him, got nothing to loose!
Let's see what he does! lol?????? I bet he does nothing at all! We'll See!
For sure, I was not really going to downvote him after the HF, I was just kidding! That would be insane! I was just trying to push his buttons a little! I agree, let the whales battle it out, I got to get back to more curating and making some STEEM!
flagged because anthony resteemed, he is spreading the same old steem bs!
And delegating free downvotes is not included and won’t be for well.. who knows how long. So this means Traf and others have to actually do the work 🙂