Hey Steemians,
So I have been having discussions with @roleerob on the blockchain about life and our views on it all. We have been touching the topic of religion, which most people don't talk about to play it safe. But as always I'm not about playing it safe.
A difficult question to answer
So a while ago @roleerob posed the following question to me.
How does a practicing Muslim today view those in your faith who don't appear to the outside world to have a religion of peace?
I have been mulling this over for weeks. Its pretty hard for me to answer. I cannot answer for a whole nation of people from different walks of life. And it's also boxing a subject that cannot be isolated. We have to unpack around it.
The broader picture
To begin the attitude of judging others regardless of their religion or beliefs is not taught in Islam. In fact its not a habit any person with a good heart will teach or practice.
Of course we are all human and we are bound to pass judgment. But looking in from the outside on another person's life whom you don't know, making assumptions about them and categorising them and myself is not something I do. As onlookers, we don't know what lies in the hearts of individuals nor the demons they struggle with. There are obviously so many factors that influence behavior. It's not related to a religion but rather a type of person.
Every faith or way of life have good and bad individuals. Saints and hypocrites. Saviours and the broken. Sometimes people are hurt and confused and act out in harsh ways. But these same people might reform and become humanitarians and give back ten fold in comparison to what they damaged.
People might seem violent, but are they really. Others might seem peaceful and silent but are their intentions pure? We don't know what are in any individuals hearts, so how can we judge them.
Again the question is not an easy one to answer. But that's because I think it's the wrong question. Humanity needs to stop segregating and compartmentalising to microscopic levels.
The problem is bigger. Judging people and not standing together is what Seperate humanity in the first place.
The People of the boxes
Canadian singer song-writer, Dawud Wharnsby says it perfectly. And is probably the best answer I can give you @roleerob. Here is a snippet of his song called: The people of the boxes
Listen to the track above if you like, it's much more charming with a tune.
There were once some people
Who all saw their lives like empty boxes
They looked around the world
Collecting up the things they liked.
They filled their lives and boxes
With the goodies that they gathered
And they all felt in control
Content and they all felt alright.
They climbed inside their boxes
They settled with their trinkets.
They neither looked nor learned much more
And closed their lids up tight.
Once they fastened up their boxes
They smiled there inside
And they all thought in their darkness
That the world was clear and bright.
But the world is not a box
There's no lid no doors
No cardboard flaps or locks
And everything in nature
From the clouds to the rocks
Is a piece of the puzzle of the purpose of man
It's a piece of the peace of Islam.
Along came a wandering wiseman
Whispering such words of truth
He stumbled on these boxes
So separate side by side
He knocked upon the first one saying
Please come out and feel the day
An answer came from deep within
You're not of us please go away
He approached the second box
And tapped twice on the lid saying
Peace to you inside
Shall I show you a new way
Someone peaked out from a crack and said
You may just have a point
But it's so comfy in my box
In my box here I will stay
But the world is not a box
There is no lid, no doors
No cardboard flaps of locks
And everything in nature
From the clouds to the rocks
Is the piece of the puzzle of the purpose of man
Is the piece of the peace of Islam
He stood before the final box
A hiding face peaked out to him
And much to his surprise
He said I recognise those eyes
I see you and you see me
Why not come out and be free
Faith and flowers wilt and die
If they are hidden from the sky.
Cause the world is not a box
There is no lid, no doors
No cardboard flaps of locks
And everything in nature
From the clouds to the rocks
Is the piece of the puzzle of the purpose of man
Is the piece of the peace of Islam
Now the centuries lie between
All the prophets and you and I
Civilisations are born and die
Each and everyday
We see good and bad and happy, sad
And mad mistakes we wish we hadn't made
In our attempt to try and live up to their ways
But if we hide ourselves away
Afraid to grow and learn
We might wake up in the flames
Of the ignorance that burns
And we'll never be much more
Than only casualties of war
In a struggle we can't win
If we have no faith to begin
We've got to tip the lid
And let some sunlight in
Cause the world is not a box
There is no lid, no doors
No cardboard flaps of locks
And everything in nature
From the clouds to the rocks
Is the piece of the puzzle of the purpose of man
Is the piece of the peace of Islam.
~ Dawud Wharnsby, People of the boxes, 2003
Source: musixmatch.com
Simple answer
I am not perfect. It's not my place to judge others. I just pray that we can all make peace with our demons and try our best to be good and kind to others. If you can strive to be one thing, strive to be kind.
Freedom Tribe Truth Challenge
This is most definitely a powerful and thus my entry to the @FreedomTribe's truth challenge. More here
Much Love,
@mimismartypants
Posted using Partiko Android
This post was shared in the Curation Collective Discord community for curators, and upvoted and resteemed by the @c-squared community account after manual review.
@c-squared runs a community witness. Please consider using one of your witness votes on us here
Thanks so much! Sometimes it's great to be square!
Posted using Partiko Android
Very nicely done @mimismartypants! And you have even found a contest into which this post can be entered. Very good. I hope you are successful with your entry, in winning the prize!! 😊 I think the song you found to represent your answer was particularly effective. It may interest you to know I took the time to sit down with my beloved life mate and play it for her …
I admire your willingness to attempt to answer my difficult question. As we’ve been saying to each other, discussing these sorts of topics are often frowned upon. But, being the uhhh … “contrarians” that we are, we’re going ahead anyway. 😉 So … Let’s go a little deeper …
From what you have written, I have extracted what stands out to me …
… as both tie-in to the key read I read into your response – judgment. You are honest in acknowledging ”we are bound to pass judgment” while wise enough to also say “we don't know what lies in the hearts of individuals nor the demons they struggle with” and so best to avoid passing judgment … I agree with this. In our (from my perspective at least …) increasingly more “polarized” world today however, how common is this view? We may not agree on the answer …
I could write my own post in a full response, but for now I will let you know I am a devout Christian man. A generation older than you @mimismartypants, from what I gather in what you have written. From what I have read and understand, our respective religions share in common a tie back to Abraham, of the Old Testament of our Bible. And we share in common a monotheistic view of God, which is distinctive amongst the world’s religions.
From this common base, our faiths diverge from there … The Muslim religion traces its “legitimacy” (better word?) to Abraham’s first-born son, Ishmael. The Judeo-Christian world traces its “legitimacy” to Abraham’s second-born son, Isaac. So … This is my two-part follow-up question: 1) Do you agree with this and, 2) If so (if not, then never mind! 😉), then how do you view this difference, i.e. what does it represent in our differing systems of belief?
Take your time. Let me know if this “conversation” is still okay. And please feel free to ask me questions of your own. My experience in life (an “old war horse” … 😉) tells me communication with good intentions will still not necessarily result in reaching consensus agreement. Certainly not on a topic so foundational as differing systems of belief. But … They should result in a closing of the gap of misunderstanding, if well intended …
Until I hear from you again, I hope all is well in your world with you and your little princess. Fully supported and resteemed. 👍
Lol another mouthfull!! I'm glad you enjoyed the read though. I also gone back to read up about your posts and gathered your religious stance. Both sons of Abraham (Ebrahim in Arabic) were key players in spreading the work of God. Ishmael (Ismail) and Isaac (Isghaak). Just as the Old Testament tells of their struggles with their people to spread the word of God, so does the Quraan.
100% agree though. That's why it's Called a discussion. We are not sheep. We can have different opinions 😂
Posted using Partiko Android
Okay @mimismartypants ...
... then this response tells me I am misinformed about this aspect of your faith, so good to know. That is, you are indicating Islam views both sons of Abraham the same ... As you may or may not know, Christianity definitely and clearly makes a distinction between the two ...
Thank you so much for being an awesome Partiko user! You have received a 26.04% upvote from us for your 2740 Partiko Points! Together, let's change the world!
Hello @mimismartypants
Good theme that you raise in this publication. We must fight against our inner demons, while we make peace with the outside world.
Peace, love, more tolerance!
Posted using Partiko Android
Hi, @mimismartypants!
You just got a 0.59% upvote from SteemPlus!
To get higher upvotes, earn more SteemPlus Points (SPP). On your Steemit wallet, check your SPP balance and click on "How to earn SPP?" to find out all the ways to earn.
If you're not using SteemPlus yet, please check our last posts in here to see the many ways in which SteemPlus can improve your Steem experience on Steemit and Busy.
The devil's advocate in me would be tempted to ask @roleerob "How does a practicing Christian today view those in your faith who don't appear to the outside world to have a religion of peace?"
Some background info to help understand that question:
The US, a nation that still purports to be "one nation under (Christian) God", spends more on its military than every Muslim nation combined:
And the US drops literally thousands of pounds of bombs on Muslim countries every year. Consider Afghanistan alone, where we have statistics on such things:
I know that both Christianity and Islam are actually religions of peace when you read the scripture, so I am curious how a practicing Christian views these actions by the US. Is this excusable or somehow different from any violence perpetrated by Muslim actors at the state or individual level? Or should it be condemned in the same way that any violent action should be condemned? When the US kills many, many more civilians in response to a terrorist attack than the original attack killed, is that justified? Or is that not in fact a tooth for a tooth, a dozen eyes for an eye, leading to the whole world blind?
If these questions are offensive feel free to not answer - my intent is not to offend. I am always genuinely curious when I hear Christians say things along the lines of "Islam is a religion of violence", curious as to how these same Christians view the actions of the US. I would genuinely appreciate a thoughtful reply. Cheers
Not to worry @carlnash ...
... I don't view your comment here as offensive. Nor do I believe it is your intent to be offensive. Being an advocate for openly discussing differences, my only real “rules of engagement” are that they are based on civility and respect.
Given the scope of the topic you are raising, I’ll respond in bullet form, as I could probably write a post for each one, but it should capture the essence, for any follow-up comments / questions you may care to make:
So, there you go for now. A response. Whether it meets your standard for a ”thoughtful reply,” I’ll leave to you to answer. If you choose to respond @carlnash, it would be helpful to me to know how you would describe your political philosophy and what country you live in. 😊
P.S. Thank you for the follow-up support of @mimismartypants’ post! 👍
First, cheers indeed for taking my comment in good stride and good spirits, and responding thoughtfully. I actually meant more as a true Christian than an American. What I was getting at, crudely, was a difference I perceive between the teachings of Christ and the current beliefs held by adherents to most strains of American Christianity. I was pointing at what I believe to be a hypocrisy (and of course, no one wants to be called a hypocrite, which is why I was cautious about saying what I was saying, and didn't want to offend you, and may have beat around the bush too vaguely to even make it clear what I was getting at! :).
Proportionate response" and "inescapable consequence of war" and indeed "collateral damage" would find no refuge in the teachings of Christ. No amount of rationalizing about why US gunships have to go here to shoot missiles nor bombers have to go here to drop bombs would get Jesus to be on "our side". No amount of decrying "terrorist" attacks while approving of unmanned drone assassination missions would fly with the J guy. WWJD? Well, certainly not WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction).
The teachings of Christ are super clear. Love your enemy as your self. Turn the other cheek. Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King vibed on this same level. That is a religion that does not promote violence.
I guess what I am saying is it is really easy for an American Christian to point the finger at Islam and say, this is a faith that promotes violence. While at the same time, living in a glass house that is not likely to be bombed in the lifetime of said Christian, nor was it bombed in the lifetime of his father, nor will it likely be bombed in the lifetime of his sons. And while the glass house that is inhabited by Muslims is in fact and currently being bombed by the government of the American Christians. And while the glass house inhabited by the Muslims has born witness to military operations by the government of the American Christians in the lifetime of the Muslims' fathers that overthrew Muslim governments and supported Muslim dictatorships for reasons that had nothing to do with "Democracy", "Freedom", nor even "Policing the world".
The proof is in the puddin' - to whatever extent Islam is a religion that promotes violence, American Christians would do well to acknowledge that Christianity is evidently a religion that also promotes violence. And would do well to ask, how has American Christianity come so far from the teachings of Christ that American Christians are totaly okay with what the American Government is doing when it drops bombs that kill civilians while maybe or maybe not hitting a target of "tactical importance"...
I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, and of course not all American Christians condone what the American military machine does. But the big picture in my opinion is that American Christianity by and large is tied up with American Patriotism and has warped the teachings of Christ into a philosophy that justifies the US spending more on death, destruction, and the instruments thereof than any other country on earth (both in absolute and per capita terms). "Policing the world" is not actually Christian in my belief, and I guess my question really boils down to - is it truly Christian in your belief? Deep down? As a Christian, you are okay with the US spending more on missiles and bombs and tanks and fighter jets than on the welfare and education of its own citizens? And do you think that a religion whose practitioners are okay with such an expenditure could be anything but a religion that condones violence?
Violence begets violence. It is not the teachings of Islam that lead to suicide bombings nor the teachings of Christ that lead to drone assassinations. American Christian violence begets Muslim violence. Muslim violence begets American Christian violence. Christ understood this, I am just not so sure Christians do.
Here I must apologize for the super duper long reply and hijacking the original post's comments LOL
@carlgnash and @roleerob opening a whole new can of worms.
Speaking as a subjective 3rd partner with no loyalty to America or emotional attachment I feel the following points should be raised.
But that's politics hey. The more power and money you have. The more contr you have. Just depends on how charming you are as a government to convince your nation you doing the right thing.
So again. We need to stop labelling and categorization entire nations on a few idiots actions. We need to stop being so narrow minded and readily accept what mainstream media tells us. Question everything. If the logic doesn't add up, their is a flaw somewhere. Which is why I never returned the question. Because life is not black and white. If that was the case I could just as well say all American have orange tans, bad hair cuts and are very hypocritical.
My two cents!
Posted using Partiko Android
See @carlnash ... 😉 And here's my $0.02 in support of your $0.02 @mimismartypants ...
Not sure, at this point, if you wish for me to comment further or not. So, in the interest of time, I'll wait for you to let me know. It's your post ...
Posted using Partiko Android
Please do. I'm sure you have lots to say.. 😀
Posted using Partiko Android
Okay @mimismartypants. Of course, we all have a lot to say. While I don’t personally need to say it, I do enjoy exchanges with those who don’t mind a “spirited” discussion. As long as it can be done with civility and respect. At least for the most part … 😉 And I prefer to only invest my time in ones in which there is at least a little uhhh … “light” being generated. Rather than all just “heat” … 😉
So … On the original question, one might not be unreasonable to conclude you have taken perhaps a little offense at it. Saying both ”.. the attitude of judging others regardless of their religion or beliefs is not taught in Islam.” Then referencing hypocrisy in your comment above … From my perspective, I was uhhh … “precise” with the words contained in my original question. Nonetheless, from the differences in our culture and national origins, I now know though how it comes across …
Whether you choose to or not is up to you, but I will tell you there is no more important question about your religion than the one I have put to you. However difficult that may be to hear. So … I thank you again for your response in this post. To which I have replied positively (at least to me …) above …
In a brief response to your bulleted points:
Current examples: Here on our Steem blockchain, I have personally been part of exchanges with our Venezuelan friends who are hoping America will save them. We are currently “faced off” with Iran. Over what? I’d be interested in your answer. The “war” between the Shite and Sunni branches of your religion would appear to an “outside observer” to have led to a great loss of life. Both historically. And currently. The aggressive nature of the Shite theocracy in Iran also threatens Israel and, of course, we have the ever popular “death to America” …
The bottom line: We are called upon (they are probably not going to be coming to South Africa to ask for help …) over and over to “settle” something that could easily be viewed by us as someone else’s problem … ”Just take care of it yourself” could be our response … Or not … We ”don’t care” as it won’t hurt us … Right?
I wonder @mimismartypants whether you would agree with these Wikipedia stats on the religious demographics of South Africa. And, if so, does that influence your view of your faith? My point is that I wonder whether there is a distinct difference in how you would answer the questions in our exchange vs. someone from a country which is predominantly Muslim. Particularly countries in the Middle East?
Good morning (here) @carlnash. While I appreciate your passion for the topic and have no problem (been known to write a post in a reply myself ...😉) with the length (it is and will not be TL;DR to me ...), there is one matter I hope to resolve. Before I reply further ...
In my limited engagement with @mimismartypants, she has identified herself as a Muslim in South Africa. I am a Christian in America. As far as I know, we are getting along fine.
While I am familiar with your account name, I do not know your background although I have asked you for a little bit of it. For example, are you either Muslim or Christian in your worldview? I trust you won't mind either sharing it with us or explaining why you choose not to.
As for this ...
... if there is a problem, the @mimismartypants I know won't be shy in letting you know ... 😉
Posted using Partiko Android
Lol im enjoying the discussion indeed!! Even though we all have very different optionions. Its pretty solid. What fun is it discussing a topic with people who agree with everything you say?
Posted using Partiko Android
THANK YOU for entering @freedomtribe's TRUTH challenge.
Boxes and judgement - urgh! - the source of so much misunderstanding, conflict and harm in the world. Well done & thank you for contributing to the discussion. Resteemed.
Good luck with your entry!!
If you haven't already delegated to @freedomtribe, please consider joining us and receiving regular support for content around our 5 curated tags of #freedom #truth #life #love #happiness
Join us on the Freedom Tribe Discord to learn more!
Thanks for the support. Was just something that needed to be written and happed to fit the topic perfectly!! Keep on freeing minds!!
Posted using Partiko Android
!tipuvote 0.5
This post is supported by $0.66 @tipU upvote funded by @penderis :)
@tipU voting service: instant, profitable upvotes + profit sharing tokens | For investors.