JUSTIN SUN & OUR TOP 20 - My thoughts...

in The LIFESTYLE LOUNGElast year

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I was not sure whether I should even worry to put this in a post, but considering that at this point we seem to be exploring all possible avenues and potential solutions, I figured I may as well just share a few of my thoughts. I do not profess to know the in’s, out’s and technicalities of all the variants that may or may not work "and why" but nonetheless…

This morning I listened to the witness chat with Justin Sun on Youtube and I was not in any way surprised by how it all unfolded. Firstly I want to say this - In my opinion this man is an absolute master manipulator – although, most of us have gathered that already. He is not in ANY way interested in the well-being nor the future of this blockchain long term, he simply wants to see profits. He stated this himself in that chat and as a “business man” this is perfectly acceptable. No investor steps into an arena with the intention of losing money. If he can achieve both then great... but he will do it HIS way.

However, you get businessmen who are sticklers and then you get businessmen who are a lot more pliable in terms of what rules they are willing to bend and which circumstance they are willing to turn a blind eye to. Justin, to my mind, is the latter. And this is the thing… the further up the food chain you climb, the more ruthless, unpredictable, unethical and egotistical they potentially become (as a rule of thumb at any rate). Justin is all of the aforementioned. This man came into a meeting with his sidekick who - right from the intro, gave us the subliminal “heads up” of just how “important” Justin is because he is “very difficult to get hold of”. He didn’t do that without reason. It is called tactics and subliminal manipulation. Without the listeners even realising it, Justin had already thrown down the “golden carpet” for himself.

He is arrogant, self-absorbed and has absolutely no respect for a single one of us – witnesses included. Yes, he kept his tone very palatable and he said all the “right” things without actually saying anything at all. He had no intentions of giving any answers or direction in that meeting – he was simply placing all the attendees under silent scrutiny – observing, listening and documenting. The mere fact that the guy would actually have the nerve to sit in a business meeting, talking to those present with a mouth full of food so obvious that you could actually hear him chewing as he spoke, should be indication of just how much he respects any of you/us and how little he cares about this – because he doesn’t… care – AT ALL!

Justin has a legally binding document that gives him rights to that stake. It does not include ANY of the previously promised agenda. To him, it is as simple as that – and if you want to look at it from a business perspective it really IS as simple as that… UNLESS there is A) Obtainable legal documentation from Steemit inc. that verifies what that stake is or is not permitted for, or B) a way of proving that the stake was never Ned’s property to sell in the first place, thus rendering the sale itself invalid (I would assume). Unless one of those two things can happen here – then we are grasping at straws because Justin is not interested in “good faith” or “handshake” business deals. Rest assured that every transaction that he makes is iron clad tight with paperwork and he will stick to those guns no matter what.

For every move we make, he is going to make ten. Money is no object for this man and whilst his investments are important to him – I can promise you that his ego is even more so and he will stop at no lengths to make his “status” known – whether he is loved or hated for it.

Essentially, nothing was achieved in that meeting because… neither party will budge – and he was not willing to put anything on the table. He refused to withdraw his witness votes and has now added to them. He refused to retract his slanderous lie of a tweet. He completely side swiped several of the questions with “grey” answers.

All we got from him in that meeting was that they would take notes, they don’t want any involvement in governance, he wants his investment released and that he wants to make money.

And this is not going to change.

I do not believe that he has ANY positive long term plans for Steem – he simply wants to make a buck and he is not going to let anybody get in his way of doing that, especially now.

He keeps saying that he only voted in those witnesses because we froze his stake. So, what if we give it back to him…. No, not like that!

So I was thinking - we want our top 20 witnesses back, or rather... all consensus witnesses re-instated and sock puppets gone - so why not divide his stake into 20 equal portions (and begin a trade. One vote removed for one portion of his stake. He will not go first… we know this – but, it would only be one of 20 portions that he would be receiving and then he will either play the game amicably and remove one vote in return for that stake or he won’t - but either way, we will know better where we stand after that because either he really does have sinister plans for the lot of us in which case he doesn’t remove the one vote required… or, he behaves himself, removes the vote and we then move to the next stage of exchanging the second portion for a second vote removal. Obviously the legal details of this exchange will need to be documented and agreed on by both parties prior... and him not using his stake to vote for witnesses would have to be one of those conditions.

He says he is not interested in governance, had intended to remove those votes and simply wants to make money - then perhaps he would be receptive to moving into a simplistic and straightforward trade deal like this?

However - what happens to that stake once it is back in his possession is going to jump back to the legalities I mentioned above.

I am not sure if there are any technical aspects or matters into this approach that would make it impractical or unworthy of consideration... perhaps it has gotten too messy already with the Korean votes now added, I don't know – but Justin is going to play this out “tit for tat” right to the finish line and I fear that his resources will outlast and outweigh ours as a community.

This man is not going to back down because that is not how he plays the game! A move for a move right to the end.

Anyway… those are my thoughts. Use them, don’t use them – either way there they are, lol!


Until next time...
Much Love from Cape Town, South Africa xxx


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For every move we make, he is going to make ten. Money is no object for this man and whilst his investments are important to him – I can promise you that his ego is even more so and he will stop at no lengths to make his “status” known – whether he is loved or hated for it.

I agree with this @jaynie! It has evolved to become more than the money (money's important, undeniably) - it has become an issue of face. If he backs down, he'll lose face.

Fortunately, I am now noticing actual leaders stand up.

Let's be clear witnesses are developers and server administrators. Maybe they are also leaders, but I didn't notice it at that meeting. A few good thoughts came out on our side, but there are also a few people who may prove themselves to deserve the label Justin gave them....if they haven't already. In anycase for now the label sticks and we all have other fish to fry.

Neat idea. But not at this stage. Also 1/13 seems more likely given this is the powerdown period.

Thanks for sharing. I admit, I'm frustrated by what steemit is vs what it could be. It could have been a great opportunity to create content, generate SEO with powerful reach, and be a community that supported one another and did not censor ideas.

Instead, it became a rich vote for the rich. Witnesses get heavily rewarded while being able to do the "I vote you, you vote me" strategy. Felt like the only way we could be noticed is paying a Bot run by a witness to try and break even just so more people would see your content.

I realize, i didn't know the ninja tricks to maximize self gain and gain my unfair share. However, as Steemit has been stale with very minimal improvements in last 4 years I welcome change. If my initial investment goes to zero then it just does it faster than it has been lately.

I want a community where articles can gain SEO and improve reach. I want a community with genuine engagement. I wasn't able to achieve this so I personally welcome change because this platform was dying at its current path anyway.

I didn't watch the meeting on Facebook at the moment. Gonna check out too.

It is looking like it will be a chain fork, so why not fork the chain give him his stake and just move forward.
Justin is not going to give any, it looks at that Steemit.Inc stake as his and it is.
Ned did not really convey what that stake was for so Justin is looking at things like a buisnessman.

Sadly, I agree with you. And there are several witnesses that want to fork and have 2 chains. How that would work, I don't know. Sadly, this is just another example of how money rules, blockchain or not...

I haven't seen the video but updated my own witness votes. Thank you for your update and thoughts.

Nice to read your thoughts on this critical matter before us all @jaynie. I think it can be distilled down ...

"... and if you want to look at it from a business perspective it really IS as simple as that… UNLESS there is A) Obtainable legal documentation from Steemit inc. that verifies what that stake is or is not permitted for, or B) a way of proving that the stake was never Ned’s property to sell in the first place, thus rendering the sale itself invalid (I would assume). Unless one of those two things can happen here ..."

... to what is legally binding. The Soft Fork 22.2 decision made him an adversary. Full stop. Period. Both this man's resolve and resources are much more formidable than he is getting credit for in most of what I am "hearing" on our Steem blockchain. Certainly prior to the Soft Fork 22.2 decision ...

Either a provably and legally binding case needs to be made to him that relentlessly drives him into accepting the Soft Fork 22.2 "decree" or a profitable win-win for him needs to be negotiated. And the uglier and more expensive this mess gets, the more profitable the latter will need to be ...

The one interesting wild card in all of this is his perception of the damage being done to his reputation and his "brand" by all of the global media / social media coverage, which does not seem to be going his way. Lots of factors involved in his perception (not to be confused with reality) ... And what he may deem to be in his overall best interest, as a result ...

Your last point is important. And we will see what kind of man he is, I guess. Will he want to repair his reputation move on. Or will he want to take revenge on the tiny blockchain that made him look bad and tear things down (once he has what he wants.)

I don't know enough about him. What I do know (from what has happened so far - the statements made on the day of acquisition and subsequent contradictory statements, plus his actions of the last few days) is he is not someone whose word I would trust.

Agreed @felt.buzz ...

"... not someone whose word I would trust."

... now that "malicious actions" (his words) have been carried out against him. He is obviously (like far too many people ...) quite capable of justifying pretty much any steps necessary to protect what he deems to be his property.

Sadly, we'll never know what would have unfolded had the "Steem Consensus Witnesses" chosen to take the high road and, while certainly there was reason for (but unproven ...) suspicion, nonetheless lead with trust. At least until such time as he first took "malicious actions," which made it provably and unmistakably clear he had bad intentions.

As it is, the "Steem Consensus Witnesses" elected to "fire the first shot." And here we are ...

Thanks for this @jaynie. It gives me a better understanding of the recent events.

Quite honestly listening to the recording, reading extensively, one can sum this up as bad business, documentation which no one appears to have, or willing to reveal. This is all on buyer/seller nothing to do with Witnesses, interested parties at all.

Being in business to make money is not a crime, what needs to be proactively found is either documentation or code to substantiate, no social media scrapping would hold firm (to my knowledge).

It would be very interesting if Justin put some of his people in for a period to learn before making a hasty decision. The holder of the purse with plenty cash to back him, learning something new it may make him a lot more in returns.

Negative media most definitely is backing him into a corner, which actually you don't want (he holds Steemit.Inc). Level headed business approach is needed, he is a businessman would negotiate if a positive way forward was presented with his share in Steem apparently sold.

@apshamilton wrote an interesting piece on how this may possibly change the way in teaching blockchain in the future.