we need to focus on making HIVE a place where normal people get together with their friends and just have fun
That's exactly how facebook started. Even people are now very happy with their number of followers on twitter. Someone was telling me with pride that I have X number of followers 😀
I was just as surprised as you Bruv! @donaldjtrump was setup over 4 years ago for this very reason. But We always knew it was never going to happen...
Because this place is based on "Blockchain" and that has something to do with "Money," many people are just not going to GROK the real potential here. I'm here purely for the sake of keeping an ID out of the hands of people like Zuckerberg and Jack but ultimately people like the Federal Government mostly.
This place is a FANTASTIC Blockchain... but yes, a trerribly Crummy "Social" Network.
I hope to have us some better writers here this weekend!
Kind Regards and HIVE!ON
@cryptographic,
What has happened is not correct, but BAN trump at Twitter might be one of the black mark that might lead people to join decentralization.
!wine
Cheers, @theguruasia You Successfully Shared 0.100 WINE With @cryptographic. You Earned 0.100 WINE As Curation Reward. You Utilized 1/3 Successful Calls.
I'm totally onboard about the curation ... I hope we will improve it in the next HF.
About the content, it will be always up to debate, and I think the main thing is having more options to discover content .... communities are one step in that direction .... about the trending ... dunno maybe we should remove it totally as one trending to fit them all is just not sufficient ... make trending for each community, frontend etc ...
What I feel very irritating with censorship is being forced to get one version of a story, truth or lie. No censorship in here doesn’t mean people are forced to focus on the censored version of the story. It could be but only for people who wants to do so.
If people want to have a full page of truth untold they can create a tribe. And people interested could subscribe and get their page full of this topic too.
Freedom of speech combined with several different opinions and interests is what make this place great.
We don’t need to think all the same on preselected topics :)
And I agree with you that Hive trending is not the most appealing for influencers.
Also people could create a second layer "Hivebook" style more social media oriented.
But at the end of the day, Hive being the mother of all second layers, its trending page can't satisfy everyone at the same time.
Politics isn't talked about much on this platform, I've noticed that too. In a discussion somewhere else someone asked why Parler was seeing big growth, and it's simply because Parler caters to the censored wing of Twitter/Facebook, while Hive doesn't.
People coming from Twitter and FB don't write blogs they write short form stuff... short thoughts. We don't have a solid website or culture for that. Should we do that? Sure I think we should... also it's not like that need is going away anytime soon. Also sites like Parler are under attack and showing off some of their weaknesses as well that we could help with.
You just did "short form stuff" with your comment. 😉
We can do that all day long with no infrastructure problems at all.
There's plenty of people making posts available where "short form stuff" can appear in the comments, as I said, all day long. The problem is that there is no incentive for people to do that. No, sorry, I misstated that: the problem is that the incentives are EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE for people to do that.
Engagement and quality, it's a symbiotic relationship, but the engagement necessarily comes first since quality arises from within and as a result.
Honored that you commented. If you like, we can continue, here, all day long. Another 😉 to stress my good faith rhetoric and not give the impression of being condescending or anything like that. Great to have your input and the opportunity to respond. Cheers!
We have a culture and UI system to support comments... but not short form posts.
Issues with short form...
present editor is way overkill... all you need is a very small comment box. And therefore short form is too cumbersome as is.
filter systems are not supported on the hivemind/node level which allows to go directly to short form content ... therefore nor a standard protocol to indicate a short form in post data to indicate what can be filtered out by platforms as an alternative to hivemind filter.
no way to filter means all posts are mixed together meaning you can't choose your experience here... which means those who want a twitter/parler experience are not getting that feel over here.
the hive reward structure doesn't seem to be a good relationship with short form. The culture has been that reward is tied to effort and longer form sometimes wins (as well as connections) many curators favor effort in their search for quality.
--downvotes then also come into play for those who.perhaps make $20 on saying what they ate for lunch. Maybe they didn't expect this... and for that maybe we have auto votes to blame
we can use a transaction to limit to $1 or whatever limit we want... we can also decline rewards
let me go a bit further as to why reward would be important... the reward mechanism is the primary method of sorting content.
we could default to a purely chronological sortimg option until some sort of algorithm is designed. We can't really use likes/votes since they are a programmable mechanism here on hive. And no one is situated to offer view count sorting or indicate which votes are from real users vs programmed. And even so how can you make those analytics decentralized and not simply tied to peakd.com... maybe it's not the worst thing to be tied to a platform at first. But the goal should be decentralization .
search should be improved with an eye specifically to this because less manual curation will likely happen because 1. it's harder to differentiate the value when things are shorter and length itself does less to indicate value 2. There will simply be a ton more quantity of posts and perhaps an overwhelming amount to curate. So that means reward algorithms are doing less work to help you find content and also curators are doing less.
perhaps you can depend more on connecting people or upgrading topic and community page experiences to help users use those mechanisms to differentiate content. But search seems to be the other big place to go.
All in all I would like to see short form happen here on hive and for years I have wanted to bring it to peakd... but there are many things to consider. All of them need to be looked at and worked on and not just to find technical solutions but also cultural solutions that make it easy and intuitive. Short form needs to be quick and it needs to work to make it not seem like noise to the users. Also we don't work in a vacuum but we are a larger community and we should work to get the majority already interested and excited about it because they will be the first users AND certain people develop the backend to make it all work and perhaps getting those backend people on board will solve a decent number of the issues I have stated.
So yeah it will happen some day I'm just saying we are NOT perfectly situated to handle the exodus from Twitter and now those also looking for an exodus from parler. Perhaps it hurts but we should have been working on this a year ago if we wanted to be ready by now. It would take months in my opinion to be ready for this and it would take community push because a community push would also push front ends and backend people to make it all happen.
The only difference between a forum and a short form Twitter/FC design is the length of the OT. Everything else has the same "flow chart" so-to-speak (with the forum allowing for optional longer form replies, of course, should the commenter choose to do so - which the vast majority don't).
Pointing out short form limitations really doesn't apply to what we are talking about, and for all the reasons you cite, wouldn't work anyway. But, again, IMO, it's irrelevant to our conversation since no-one suggests that. As I said in my comment above, no infrastructure changes are required at all.
It's a mindset change. A decision to support one way of incentivizing, or the other. Simple changes on the technical level, difficult decisions on the executive level. It's a change in our approach, with practically zero to do with anything technical.
Just take out the money from upvote and downvote and let it flow to investors who power up hive, creators, publisher and those who operate a witness node. Let's make it that way, like a normal social media.
I've been saying it for a while, here and there, not too loudly, and probably mostly lost, but IMO the future is lost if we insist on a pipe dream of bringing in "great content creators". Surely all those "great creators" already clearly see from the outside just how it works on the inside anyway, and they don't seem to warm up to the idea. Everyone here keeps talking about how we need to attract big "influencers", but nobody seems to look at things as they would through their eyes. What do the have to gain by coming here? What do they have to lose? The answers are so obvious that I don't need to give them. And that's why people here are always talking about advertising, and bounties, and subsidizing the "arrival of the influencers".
It's time to make HIVE a normal social network for normal people who just want to have normal fun together, on equal terms with the whales, of course . . . with everybody, for that matter.
And then maybe, just maybe, we'll finally wake up and get back to basics, which is that HIVE is a cryptocurrency to invest in, first and foremost!
Yes that's correct. Just get an idea on how Google AdSense attracts publishers and YouTube to attract it's video creators. The current experiment on how tokenomics flow is already a failure. Nothing wrong with copying idea and innovates it. People like doing it free because most people think, if money is attached they think it a scam.
I've been here since the Steem ninja mine takes place. Ned and Dan promise something great then a hostile takeover. How long am I in Cryptosphere? I received a good share of BCH from BTC fork and many hard fork, received a free UNI and 1inch being a LP. Double my hive just by selling all my Steem right after a fork. I know the failure of Steem and how hive is born. Not the reputation and the image that matters I guess, that racism IMO.
I'm not really thinking about that. I'm thinking more about the serious blogger looking for an alternative. When they see that trending page, what do you think is the next thing they do? Excitedly sign up?
I am excited about the launch of microleo. That will make shitposting great again. I get your point with the circle jerking on hive. It's some bad shit that keeps this platform where it is... away from mass adoption. Auto votes being one of them.
I think the "circle jerking" is good. Or, if I bring friends and family to HIVE (with the investment that entails for each), we shouldn't be able to upvote each other "just because" and enjoy the same pro-rata rewards as the double digit "pile-on post" votes?
That having been said, let me also be clear that the 50%-50% curator-author has to stay the same, otherwise, we'd be back to the "whale circle-jerk shit posting" from before.
Edit: I love curation trails too. They motivate me to be consistent, and that's no small thing. Every time I post I think of them - I can't let them down.
just bump on your post...i have to say that sometimes...i really really love shits-posts....i'm not always upvoting them though, cause i don't like to end up like this...
That's the first downvote I've ever given out. Sorry about that, but, while being funny, by-and-large, it really misses the point.
(Unlike others who downvote indiscriminately without explanation, I choose to let you know why. Nothing personal, I just don't want it at the top of the comments of this post.)
Trending should be related with the amount of engagement/comments that a post can reach and not the amount of money IMO
I like this!
Very good idea.
Well, it is common sense...money does not mean anything at this moment on HIVE
Zero HIVE
Agree, and I don't understand why is not implemented yet here.
That's exactly how facebook started. Even people are now very happy with their number of followers on twitter. Someone was telling me with pride that I have X number of followers 😀
I was just as surprised as you Bruv!
@donaldjtrump was setup over 4 years ago for this very reason. But We always knew it was never going to happen...
Because this place is based on "Blockchain" and that has something to do with "Money," many people are just not going to GROK the real potential here. I'm here purely for the sake of keeping an ID out of the hands of people like Zuckerberg and Jack but ultimately people like the Federal Government mostly.
This place is a FANTASTIC Blockchain... but yes, a trerribly Crummy "Social" Network.
I hope to have us some better writers here this weekend!
Kind Regards and HIVE!ON
I have no interest in people trending on HIVE.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Zero HIVE
It's same on Reddit. You have to scroll down a little bit to find something interesting.
Today, precisely today, I did bother to scroll down, a lot!
@cryptographic,
What has happened is not correct, but BAN trump at Twitter might be one of the black mark that might lead people to join decentralization.
!wine
Cheers~
Cheers, @theguruasia You Successfully Shared 0.100 WINE With @cryptographic.
You Earned 0.100 WINE As Curation Reward.
You Utilized 1/3 Successful Calls.
WINE Current Market Price : 0.000 HIVE
Yea well at least dan post about the cenzorship is there :)
Zero HIVE
I'm totally onboard about the curation ... I hope we will improve it in the next HF.
About the content, it will be always up to debate, and I think the main thing is having more options to discover content .... communities are one step in that direction .... about the trending ... dunno maybe we should remove it totally as one trending to fit them all is just not sufficient ... make trending for each community, frontend etc ...
What I feel very irritating with censorship is being forced to get one version of a story, truth or lie. No censorship in here doesn’t mean people are forced to focus on the censored version of the story. It could be but only for people who wants to do so.
If people want to have a full page of truth untold they can create a tribe. And people interested could subscribe and get their page full of this topic too.
Freedom of speech combined with several different opinions and interests is what make this place great.
We don’t need to think all the same on preselected topics :)
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Zero HIVE
And I agree with you that Hive trending is not the most appealing for influencers.
Also people could create a second layer "Hivebook" style more social media oriented.
But at the end of the day, Hive being the mother of all second layers, its trending page can't satisfy everyone at the same time.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
Politics isn't talked about much on this platform, I've noticed that too. In a discussion somewhere else someone asked why Parler was seeing big growth, and it's simply because Parler caters to the censored wing of Twitter/Facebook, while Hive doesn't.
People coming from Twitter and FB don't write blogs they write short form stuff... short thoughts. We don't have a solid website or culture for that. Should we do that? Sure I think we should... also it's not like that need is going away anytime soon. Also sites like Parler are under attack and showing off some of their weaknesses as well that we could help with.
You just did "short form stuff" with your comment. 😉
We can do that all day long with no infrastructure problems at all.
There's plenty of people making posts available where "short form stuff" can appear in the comments, as I said, all day long. The problem is that there is no incentive for people to do that. No, sorry, I misstated that: the problem is that the incentives are EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE for people to do that.
Engagement and quality, it's a symbiotic relationship, but the engagement necessarily comes first since quality arises from within and as a result.
Honored that you commented. If you like, we can continue, here, all day long. Another 😉 to stress my good faith rhetoric and not give the impression of being condescending or anything like that. Great to have your input and the opportunity to respond. Cheers!
We have a culture and UI system to support comments... but not short form posts.
Issues with short form...
present editor is way overkill... all you need is a very small comment box. And therefore short form is too cumbersome as is.
filter systems are not supported on the hivemind/node level which allows to go directly to short form content ... therefore nor a standard protocol to indicate a short form in post data to indicate what can be filtered out by platforms as an alternative to hivemind filter.
no way to filter means all posts are mixed together meaning you can't choose your experience here... which means those who want a twitter/parler experience are not getting that feel over here.
the hive reward structure doesn't seem to be a good relationship with short form. The culture has been that reward is tied to effort and longer form sometimes wins (as well as connections) many curators favor effort in their search for quality.
--downvotes then also come into play for those who.perhaps make $20 on saying what they ate for lunch. Maybe they didn't expect this... and for that maybe we have auto votes to blame
we can use a transaction to limit to $1 or whatever limit we want... we can also decline rewards
let me go a bit further as to why reward would be important... the reward mechanism is the primary method of sorting content.
we could default to a purely chronological sortimg option until some sort of algorithm is designed. We can't really use likes/votes since they are a programmable mechanism here on hive. And no one is situated to offer view count sorting or indicate which votes are from real users vs programmed. And even so how can you make those analytics decentralized and not simply tied to peakd.com... maybe it's not the worst thing to be tied to a platform at first. But the goal should be decentralization .
search should be improved with an eye specifically to this because less manual curation will likely happen because 1. it's harder to differentiate the value when things are shorter and length itself does less to indicate value 2. There will simply be a ton more quantity of posts and perhaps an overwhelming amount to curate. So that means reward algorithms are doing less work to help you find content and also curators are doing less.
perhaps you can depend more on connecting people or upgrading topic and community page experiences to help users use those mechanisms to differentiate content. But search seems to be the other big place to go.
All in all I would like to see short form happen here on hive and for years I have wanted to bring it to peakd... but there are many things to consider. All of them need to be looked at and worked on and not just to find technical solutions but also cultural solutions that make it easy and intuitive. Short form needs to be quick and it needs to work to make it not seem like noise to the users. Also we don't work in a vacuum but we are a larger community and we should work to get the majority already interested and excited about it because they will be the first users AND certain people develop the backend to make it all work and perhaps getting those backend people on board will solve a decent number of the issues I have stated.
So yeah it will happen some day I'm just saying we are NOT perfectly situated to handle the exodus from Twitter and now those also looking for an exodus from parler. Perhaps it hurts but we should have been working on this a year ago if we wanted to be ready by now. It would take months in my opinion to be ready for this and it would take community push because a community push would also push front ends and backend people to make it all happen.
Cc @asgarth just
The comments are the "short form stuff".
The only difference between a forum and a short form Twitter/FC design is the length of the OT. Everything else has the same "flow chart" so-to-speak (with the forum allowing for optional longer form replies, of course, should the commenter choose to do so - which the vast majority don't).
Pointing out short form limitations really doesn't apply to what we are talking about, and for all the reasons you cite, wouldn't work anyway. But, again, IMO, it's irrelevant to our conversation since no-one suggests that. As I said in my comment above, no infrastructure changes are required at all.
It's a mindset change. A decision to support one way of incentivizing, or the other. Simple changes on the technical level, difficult decisions on the executive level. It's a change in our approach, with practically zero to do with anything technical.
Hope this happens in the future, thanks for your engagement!
Just take out the money from upvote and downvote and let it flow to investors who power up hive, creators, publisher and those who operate a witness node. Let's make it that way, like a normal social media.
I've been saying it for a while, here and there, not too loudly, and probably mostly lost, but IMO the future is lost if we insist on a pipe dream of bringing in "great content creators". Surely all those "great creators" already clearly see from the outside just how it works on the inside anyway, and they don't seem to warm up to the idea. Everyone here keeps talking about how we need to attract big "influencers", but nobody seems to look at things as they would through their eyes. What do the have to gain by coming here? What do they have to lose? The answers are so obvious that I don't need to give them. And that's why people here are always talking about advertising, and bounties, and subsidizing the "arrival of the influencers".
It's time to make HIVE a normal social network for normal people who just want to have normal fun together, on equal terms with the whales, of course . . . with everybody, for that matter.
And then maybe, just maybe, we'll finally wake up and get back to basics, which is that HIVE is a cryptocurrency to invest in, first and foremost!
Yes that's correct. Just get an idea on how Google AdSense attracts publishers and YouTube to attract it's video creators. The current experiment on how tokenomics flow is already a failure. Nothing wrong with copying idea and innovates it. People like doing it free because most people think, if money is attached they think it a scam.
Get a rep over 25 and post more than one post without an image, and then tell us how it's done...
Come on frot, cut the guy/gal some slack. They just signed up. 25 is where we all started. 😉
I can't be arsed with slack tonight :)
😂
I've been here since the Steem ninja mine takes place. Ned and Dan promise something great then a hostile takeover. How long am I in Cryptosphere? I received a good share of BCH from BTC fork and many hard fork, received a free UNI and 1inch being a LP. Double my hive just by selling all my Steem right after a fork. I know the failure of Steem and how hive is born. Not the reputation and the image that matters I guess, that racism IMO.
YEAH THAT IS RACISM LOL - SO WHY ARE YOU HIDING BEHIND A NEW ACCOUNT?
Be yourself and post whatever you like to post - who the hell looks at the shit on trending?
I'm not really thinking about that. I'm thinking more about the serious blogger looking for an alternative. When they see that trending page, what do you think is the next thing they do? Excitedly sign up?
If they check out Steemit first they will :)
Everything's relative. The one eyed man is king in the land of the blind.
I've had a pretty good look around and still rate Hive as the best platform.
I don't argue that for a minute!
I am excited about the launch of microleo. That will make shitposting great again. I get your point with the circle jerking on hive. It's some bad shit that keeps this platform where it is... away from mass adoption. Auto votes being one of them.
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
I think the "circle jerking" is good. Or, if I bring friends and family to HIVE (with the investment that entails for each), we shouldn't be able to upvote each other "just because" and enjoy the same pro-rata rewards as the double digit "pile-on post" votes?
That having been said, let me also be clear that the 50%-50% curator-author has to stay the same, otherwise, we'd be back to the "whale circle-jerk shit posting" from before.
Edit: I love curation trails too. They motivate me to be consistent, and that's no small thing. Every time I post I think of them - I can't let them down.
Microposting is going to be actually fun
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
@tipu curate btw
just bump on your post...i have to say that sometimes...i really really love shits-posts....i'm not always upvoting them though, cause i don't like to end up like this...
Posted Using LeoFinance Beta
That's the first downvote I've ever given out. Sorry about that, but, while being funny, by-and-large, it really misses the point.
(Unlike others who downvote indiscriminately without explanation, I choose to let you know why. Nothing personal, I just don't want it at the top of the comments of this post.)
no problem accept it