In case you are just joining in on one of these how about a little background. I have lived in South East Asia since 2004, most of that time was spent in Thailand but also I've lived in Singapore and Malaysia. Now I live in Vietnam and quite like it here but honestly, I only moved here because Thailand started being dicks about their visas and it was necessary for me to pack up and move.
For the sake of being fair in the competition I am going to compare mostly Chiang Mai, Thailand to Da Nang, Vietnam because they are of similar size (around 1 million inhabitants) both have a rather large expat population, and both are popular tourist destinations.
Also, it is not my intention to insult anyone that is from these countries so please keep your pants on if you disagree with some of the things that I say. It is, after all, just my opinion.
Variety
I live and lived in expat parts of town in both countries, I currently live in what could be considered "Chinatown" in reverse right now as the foreigners outnumber the Vietnamese in this part of town and most of the businesses are meant to cater to the expat population. This was a lot less true when I lived in Chiang Mai but to be fair to CM that city covers a much larger expanse of land so the type of restaurants that you might be looking for could very well be many km away from where you live.
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Both cities and many other cities in both countries cater to a wide variety of international specialties with of course Italian food being the most popular type of business to have (everyone likes pizza.) Both obviously have their own country's food and both even have the other country's food although I would say that Thai food is generally a lot more popular than Vietnamese when we look at it as an international option.
Both countries essentially offer everything you can imagine and therefore this one is too close to call.
Winner = Draw
"National" dishes
That's in quotes because I am not going to pretend to be a food ambassador for either country and everyone's idea about what a country's signature dish would be is different.
From what I can tell thus far Vietnam seems to focus more on noodle dishes and Thailand more on rice and curry dishes. I say this even though both countries have both of these things and of course lots of food preparation nuances that make their dishes unique to their respective countries.
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Thai Panang curry - one of my favorite dishes from any country
I have not had everything to eat in either country, despite having lived in one of them for over a decade. I don't think it is possible to have tried everything. It is my experience that there is something about the Thai spicing of their dishes that just has more definitive appeal to it and this is likely the reason why there are Thai restaurants all over the world yet I have only seen a couple of Vietnamese restaurants in my travels (and never ate at them until I lived in Vietnam.)
A lot of Vietnamese dishes taste rather bland in comparison and this is just a matter of perspective I suppose. Thai food has fire to it and Vietnamese food is just kind of missing that. Therefore this was an easy winner to decide.
Winner = Thailand
Affordability
This is a massive factor for me when considering what to have for din dins. Regardless of how amazing a place is according to a friend or online reviews I am very unlikely to participate in food that is what I consider to be overpriced. For example: There is this steakhouse here in Da Nang that people who have been to it say is one of the best steakhouses in all of Asia, if not the world called Olivia's.
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I have been invited to dine here on a number of occasions but I have always declined because I looked at the menu and it was going to easily cost $60 a person to dine here. I left the United States because of pricing like this so I can't tell you if it is a great steakhouse since I refuse to pay that much for food.
Thankfully, a vast majority of all food at all locations is very inexpensive. In both Thailand and Vietnam it is extremely easy to go out to eat for every meal for $2 or less and that is just amazing to me.
However, for reasons that I do not understand things in general are just a bit cheaper here in Vietnam and it doesn't really seem to matter what we are talking about. This is most noticeable in the price of drinks since in Vietnam, they are basically giving the booze away due to lack of excessive government taxation (I presume.)
So even though both countries are very affordable in relation to food, Everything is cheaper in Vietnam so choosing a victor in this category was an easy one.
Winner = Vietnam
Street Food
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If you have never experienced the majesty that is street food vendors you are missing out on an amazing part of life. You see the food cooked right in front of you, you pay next to nothing for it since these sellers pay very little in the way of rent or other overhead, you sit on cheap plastic chairs and folding tables, and the entire experience is just one-of-a-kind. Hell, even Gordon Ramsay came to eat some street food and this one one of the few times I have seen this man smile this much.
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On a side note: In that same episode Ramsay tries his hand at making Pad Thai and a top Thai chef pulled a "Ramsay" and berated him for not knowing what he is doing and that his end product was "disgusting."
Anyway, street food is an awesome experience and the possibilities are endless and this is where we run into a bit of a conundrum as far as Vietnam is concerned. For whatever reason, street food is a far smaller part of the culture here and while it does exist, most of these places are all serving snacks on a stick or some sort of drinks for the teenagers to socialize at these places. They just don't have this feature in great enough levels for them to stand a chance against Thailand, where this is basically in every city large and small, nationwide. Therefore, Vietnam never stood a chance in this part of the competition.
Winner = Thailand
Baked Goods
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Everyone loves bread and other baked goods, right? I know I do even though I know that I should consume a lot less of it than I do. I could be making this up and this is pure speculation on my part but I am thinking that the ability to make a lot of baked goods was introduced to the Vietnamese during the attempted French takeover of the country. Baguettes are a regular part of a Vietnamese diet and you can bank of the baked goods in Vietnam as being extremely fresh basically every day of the week.
Thai baked goods on the other hand are very hit and miss. I have had some difficulty finding what I consider to be "good" bread in Thailand unless I go to a specialty bakery, normally owned and operated by a foreigner, and paying a premium for it.
In Vietnam, there are bakeries on basically every block and all of them are fantastic. The level of competition that exists between these various businesses ensures that they always will be... or they will go out of business. Baking bread is such a massive part of the culture here that even smaller burger places make their own bread and that becomes a big part of the reason why you decide to eat at one burger place rather than another.
While both places do a pretty fantastic job on the baking side of things Thailand seems to simply be less good at it and many of the "bakeries" in Thailand merely have pre-packaged stuff in it that they didn't even make themselves. Vietnam on the other hand, simply excels at baking and therefore this was an easy winner to decide.
Winner = Vietnam
Ok, so that's a total score of 2-2 but I refuse to allow these things to end in a draw because I am American, and if our sports say anything about us as a people, it is that we hate draws. Therefore I am going to declare an overall winner and honestly, it just barely is this way in my mind.
Overall Winner = Thailand
There is just something a little bit more special about going out to eat in Thailand even though both experiences are pretty fantastic and honestly, changed the way that I feel about eating out in a general sense. I kind of feel bad for my American compatriots that have never experienced anything outside of the choosing between Applebee's or Outback Steakhouse for their dinner choices. The Vietnamese dining out experience is still pretty great and a lot more affordable, but I just have to say that I am not terribly excited about a lot of Vietnamese dishes whereas there are a TON of Thai dishes that make my mouth water just thinking about them now.
Both countries excel at making the dining out experience a wonderful one but in the end Thailand is just a teensy bit more special to me - and I think most people would agree.
Thailand misses you. Even the craft beer scene has improved recently - had a really nice "Blonde Ale" at the ISDSI artisan Market last week and did give a moment of silence to that travel blogging hive meetup. 😆
AQI today over 200 and I'm missing the beach badly. On the plus side, Chiang Mai traffic is back to 2005 levels and almost a pleasure to drive here again. You wouldn't recognize the old City - 80% of businesses are closed and gone, even the 7-11s.
Hope to see you back this way soonish... a beer in our future. My shout.
oh wow, that's shocking and pretty horrible news. Did the Zoe complex survive? I bet Loi Kro or however that is spelled, looks terrible now. It looked pretty bad before covid so now i reckon it is a ghost town.
The Zoe's complex is in its death throes. Popped in last Saturday evening at 8pm on the way home to grab a kebab from the Indian shop on the corner. He had no customers at all. There may have been 5 or 6 small bars open and a max of maybe 20 people drifting around. Honestly it was so depressing we couldn't wait t get outa there and took our kebabs home to Saraphi.
There IS new life and a lot of Thai development and growth on the outskirts of the city - Hang Dong and Mae Rim mostly, but Mee Chok also packed and crazy busy most days. People have no need to go into the city anymore and frankly the vibe is so blurgh that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I have no doubt Zoe's will be sold and redeveloped. Loi kroh? Hard to say. Wat Ket and the Charoen Muang drag heading towards Narrawat bridge seem to be the next places to POP and become trendy - along with Chiang Moi heading down to the Flower Market.
Have you seem a similar level of devastation in Vietnam's tourist zones?
Yes, I live in one of them and basically everything is closed. Some of the places that are popular with the expat population are hanging on, barely but for the most part everything is a month or so away from shutting down permanently. Most business owners that I know have told me that the owners of the land gave them a break on the rent for a while but now it has been too long and the landlords can no longer afford to do this - therefore, there are going to be more closings to follow.
There is a certain part of town that catered almost exclusively to Korean tourists and this part of the city is a ghost town now as almost everything has closed up. The hotels are probably only temporarily closed but the smaller businesses from what I have been told, will never re-open.
As far as continued development goes Vietnam has a lot in common with Thailand: They are always building something, even when it doesn't make sense.
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ENGAGEtokens.I've been here for a bit longer than you have and I agree with the sentiment about Vietnamese food. The characteristic dish Pho that appears all around the world, seems bland and almost tasteless to me. I should have a Vietnamese native show me how to do it correctly because up to now I can see no reason to really ever order it.
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ENGAGEtokens.I have also been rather nonplussed with Pho and don't understand its appeal. My Quang is pretty decent and is probably my favorite of all the common noodle soups.
I figured Vietnam was going to win when it came to baking. They have that French influence from all of the time that they occupied the country. I know they use French Bread for a lot of the Vietnamese style sandwiches in the US, so it just makes sense. My wife and I use a lot of seasoning in our food, so we often find places to be very under seasoned, even when they are probably not. If a meal is being cooked in our house it almost always starts with olive oil, onions, and garlic.
Well it is difficult to go wrong with these 3 things. Just the smell of them cooking together makes me hungry. What more do you need?
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Hey, why isn't Cambodia in this battle? Just kiddin' of course. Cambodian food isn't exactly internationally famous. When I ask Cambodians why they dislike Vietnamese and Thai cuisine, I generally get the same answer. Cambodians say that Thais and Vietnamese like to put all the flavors (sour, salty, sweet, spicy, savory) all in one dish, whereas a Cambodian family would rather 5 simple small dishes, one sweet, one savory, one spicy, etc.
I think the war had a lot to do with the tastebuds changing. Many Cambodians were hiding in the forest and foraging for years and years, so the food became a bit bland, and I think ultimately never recovered. They did however become master foragers and are more aware of wild edibles than Vietnamese or Thais.
Thanks for sharing this with us.