Our lives pivoted last week and will take a somewhat familiar, but unwelcome, path. The journey could end in great heartache and will be stressful on us as a couple, and individuals. You can read about it here if you like.
We're not overly concerned about our relationship because its strong but the situation will definitely put stress on it and on us as individuals; A plan is needed.
Normal and not in front
I read a post by @revisesociology about his move to Portugal. You can read it here. He contemplates living arrangements and his off-grid-style life-plans once in Portugal. IT all sounds really cool and a great use of one's life. This prompted my post as Faith and I have been contemplating a few changes ourselves; Life-altering changes.
Faith and I are normal people: Jobs, a mortgage and financial commitments that send us to work each day. We're hard workers, always have been, but value time above all else; Time that being in debt takes away from us.
Life can be fickle and quickly taken away, the very issue we're facing right now as above. So time is our most valuable commodity...And yet here we are, fronting at work each day, paying what we can off the mortgage to get in front and never really quite getting there.
We're currently determining selling our house, paying down all of our debt and pocketing the difference then moving into Faith's mum's house. The plan had always to move there with her as she got older to look after her, possibly in five years or so, but her secondary cancer-situation might accelerate those plans and we're kind of thinking it's a good thing.
On the surface that seems a no-brainer, being debt free, however complications arise when we consider that Faith's income is obtained from our business which she runs from a building behind our current house. Having that all set up elsewhere is not possible so she would essentially lose her income. This is somewhat balanced by the fact we'd have no debts but not fully; We also have plans for more travel and hobbies to feed so having a little more money than we actually need is required. Of course, we would need to think a little about having funds to live into our future too.
My mother in law lives alone in a fairly new house she built after the last was destroyed in an electrical fire. It has three bedrooms, two bathrooms, two living areas, car parking for four cars and a big shed and a smaller workshop. I know this may sound massive, and it's certainly of a good size, but here in Australia it's considered an average family house.
There's room for all three of us without feeling at all cramped and all of our stuff fits. I'd have a workshop, parking for my vehicles and camper trailer and all would be well. The household costs would be split making living cheaper and we all get along really well...Sounds like a good situation right? Especially the debt free part.
Faith is an only child and so everything her mum has will go to her eventually, including the house which is freehold, so we would have moved in eventually anyway. With her mum's cancer situation...Well, in five years it could be a moot point...In two or even one for that matter! So, considering Faith would like to spend more time with her mum I think this accelerated move-in is something that may happen sooner.
Of course, as someone who has been in the property industry for twenty years, I know what's going on in the market right now and deliberations around our house sale revolve around known facts and predictions or expectations as well. I had my own property development company for several years and developing my existing house is an option as I know what to do. It's a big investment for what would only be a small additional gain over selling as a whole. It brings additional risk too, considering the market moving forward, pandemic financial-pressures and the recession Australia is in; These are all things we need to consider.
All my adult life has been spent working towards putting ourselves in a debt-free situation and had my previous business partner not been a rogue we wold be in that position right now. Having the chance to do this in the next six to twelve months is a massive opportunity and whilst there's a few complications that will need ironing out, it's certainly something we are committed to.
Our lives would need to change: Spending habits, expectations and habits. Our need over want ethos might require fine-tuning and we may need to alter a few other aspects but I think it is completely achievable. I especially like the prospect of Faith being able to work less, have less pressure and to spend more time with her mum.
Being debt free brings options. That's what was behind Faith's suggestion of possibly accelerating the process in the first place. She lost her dad to cancer when she was eleven - He was thirty three. She's feeling now, looking at the prospect of losing her mum, that we deserve to live a more satisfying and complete life free from the financial stress banks, corporations and government want us to feel. We will feel more settled, more in control of our lives and futures and...Is that worth missing out on a little here and there?
Waiting five years is the other option to selling up now of course - It's only five years right? But what if that's me in the next year or two with terminal cancer? That's one of the big motivator's behind our thoughts; At fifty years old I can see my end a bit more clearly so even more motivation!
Clearly I'm being generic here as my financial position isn't for public domain, however I think you get the gist. What about you guys? Would you do it? Would you shuffle a few things to become debt free? Would you wait the five years or do it now? I'm really keen to hear your opinion as it might bring up a thought I haven't considered and that would be welcome at this time when the decisions we make will have far-reaching implications.
Feel free to comment, I'm really interested.
Design and create your ideal life, don't live it by default - Tomorrow isn't promised.
Be well
Discord: galenkp#9209
I think that Australia is facing a more difficult financial situation going forward that most Aussies realise. The ongoing 3 month+ lockdown of Australia's second largest state economy will have devastating consequences on GDP in the 3rd, and potentially 4th quarter of this year.
While most countries will have got through Corona and achieved herd immunity, Australia is no-where near achieving this. Lockdowns are completely counter-productive - something the Israeli public learnt early.
Also the Aussie government is printing money hand over fist to fund Corona financial support to keep the public docile. This will have very negative long term consequences.
I'd say sell up now before things get worse and invest in BTC, Hive, gold and silver.
Set up a vege garden to provide some food self sufficiency.
All things we have discussed, and continue to discuss. I've worked in the property industry for 20 years and invested in it for 5 prior to that and yep, I have to agree...Bad times are coming...So many people simply refuse to see it. But that's Australia for you I guess.
This is partly what's behind the debt free scenario...Not just lifestyle and looking after Faith's mum by moving in to help her...It's the fact that a fall is coming and I'd rather not owe anyone money when it comes. I'm a prepper so the vegetable garden and sustainability thing is on my radar as is alternative investments.
Thanks for commenting. I agree with all you say.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.Obviously I'd recommend moving in with your mother in law - it sounds like a win win situation, albeit under grim circumstances.
I know of two couples who have benefitted enormously from free accommodation like this - one couple even built a massive extension on their parents house, saved themselves a fortune - then again i did used to live in Surrey, which is proper expensive as it's commuter territory for London.
You can always rent your actual house to cover the mortgage.
But I'll guess you'll know when the right time to sell is.
I remember selling my old flat two years ago it felt great to have all the money in the bank. The danger there is you spend it, you just drip drip away at it, so best to lock it up somewhere.
Faith could always rent a work space temporarily.
I'd go for it - debt free sounds like the way to go!
Posted Using LeoFinance
Thanks for your insights...That's exactly what I was hoping for...People commenting to help my brain expand into new thought-area's...Sometimes the hamster on the wheel in my noggin get's tired and I miss things.
The move-in was bound to happen, inside of five years, but now...We can't seem to think up a logical reason to delay it and can think of many in favour of it.
We'll be running some numbers this weekend...I excel spreadsheet everything so it's easy to run reports and work on financial scenarios. We have options with the house here: Sell, rent, develop and of course the market needs to be considered...Moving forward who knows what it'll be like but I'm not sure it'll be great. Sell now in a known market or risk losing (or gaining) in an unknown future? That's the big question. I doubt I'll subdivide though. I have 700m2 so could do it easily, but a shift in the market could mean I only make a little more than selling whole. All things to be considered.
We're not adverse to the living with Faith's mum thing though, I think that's a given.
Thanks for commenting. :)
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.Do it now mate👍 make the reshuffle adjust as necessary and away you go😀 Debt free is awesome mate. Faith can have more time with her mum and less time working. You both can build a debt free future and enjoy more of life not just going through the grind all the time. We only get one go at this on earth.
I knew you'd say this...Could have put a weeks salary on it!
I agree, no time like the present - A mate just told me the same thing actually. He's a debt collector so knows his shit when it comes to debt. Lol.
We are waiting on news from the PET and MRI scans for Faith's mum and when the operation will be, but things will move along from there. It'll take some time but that's ok as we want to plan it out strategically; We'll on;y get one go at doing it right.
Lol fortunately I am not much of a betting man🤣 Yes gotta do the due diligence on it all for sure and that does take some time.
Hope the news on the test is not bad and things can be sorted out for Faith's mum.
Take care and try not let it all stress you both out as lot's going on.
Catch up later😀
Mate you never know how much longer you have on this planet. We have sailed for a while with a lovely family and just found out the mother of four young kids has been diagnosed with brain cancer. Her eldest kids are just starting high school. It happens more then people like to talk about. Even if you win the lottery and remain free of most disease; it's harder to keep up the fitness and stamina to go adventuring the older you get. You can always get more money; but you can never get your youth back (or time with Faith's mum). So I would say if there is any thought to do it; do it. You won't look back.
What most people don't realize is that being debt free can bring you more time and creativity. And for a lot of entrepreneurial people "working less" ironically can bring in significantly more financial returns. It buys you the freedom to say no to things which might be somewhat rewarding but are sub-optimal (ie when someone offers you something if it's not "fuck yeah" it should be no). It buys you time to develop the concepts for ventures which are truly rewarding (financially and mentally). It also buys you the freedom to develop yourself and acquire more talents and skills and become a true multi skilled Renaissance man. You will need to employ the services of others less and a cross disciplinary approach also allows you to have insight across several typically narrow areas facilitating innovation. Jacob Lund Fisker was way ahead of his time with a lot of this; check out his book from 2010 called Early Retirement Extreme or ERE (amazing book, no so fussed on the name). He also has some free resources on his blog here http://earlyretirementextreme.com/ . Very simple concepts (explained in a way I can't in a simple response) around learning to live off less so you can save most of what you earn (until you have equivalent passive income), making multiskilling your life goal so you require less external support (due to tax fixing something is 40% time better spent than earning income and paying someone to fix it ). It also allows you to remain perpetually relevant (aka employable) when market conditions and/or the zeitgeist moves on. The concept goes well beyond the simplistic multiskilling and self dependency that people talk about as a requirement for a sustainable off grid life style. It pushes one towards the boundary of becoming a polymath or 'Renaissance man'. You want to thrive rather than survive. You want to be liberated from society, not be hiding from it.
I have also learnt a lot over the years from Tim Ferris. He has a bit of an attitude and rubs some the wrong way; but his early stuff is brilliant and still relevant (4 hour work week from 2007 etc). His later stuff is equally brilliant but he has diverted esoterically into attempting to help people create a perfectly efficient optimal human being which is somewhat tangential to his initial simplistic goal of time freedom. The 4 hour work week specifics are getting a little dated but the concepts remain universal. Create passive income through massive changes in optimizing your life for efficiency while leveraging the massive geopolitical arbitrage that exists in the world. Ie take advantage of the unlimited economic arbitrage presented between outsourcing as much as possible to the third world (manufacturing and services) and selling these goods/services to people in the first world. You then live like a king in some low cost but beautiful hub in the second world to maximize the enjoyment from your return. Ferris had a lot to do with the rise of all the digital nomad hubs in places like Chang Mai in Thailand and Bali in Indonesia , Buenos Aeries in Argentina etc, with people following this model.
We have talked about our 'off grid' life situation before so I won't go into the specifics. But personally I try and aim for an approach which blends the minimalism, cross disciplinary training and self sufficiency in ERE, with the lean input entrepreneurial approach of the 4 hour work week. If you have read either of the books sorry for the repetition; but they might spark a few thoughts or make you pick one up and see your relationships with money and society a little differently. Best of luck with the journey.
Hey man, this is the sort of response I was hoping to get, not simple yeah debt free is legit comment because I know being debt free is legit, but resources that can have a tangible effect on me, information that will help me work towards the end goal of being debt free and living the best life scenario.
I'm going to hit those resources mate, so thanks for putting me onto them; I'm very grateful.
!ENGAGE 50
Hope the resources are useful. They have had a big impact on our lives in the last 10 years and now at 40 we are full time adventuring.
I'm looking forward to taking a read for sure. You've clearly put the information to good use so whilst I'm a little more advanced in years maybe I can too.
Never too late mate.
There is even an acronym now for this kind of stuff 'FIRE' or Financial Independence, Retire Early
and a wikipedia page lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRE_movement
There is also a blog Mr Money Mustache which is also highly respected for these items. https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
Nice one, it's a strong focus now so will take a look. Might be me sailing around in a few years. 🙂
Hopefully Hive can help us all out a bit ;-)
ENGAGEtokens.All I can tell you is that the day we ended up paying our house was one of the happiest days of our lives. Feeling the freedom of no depth gives you a great position to decide your future.
Yep, I can't say I know how it feels, but I can imagine. I was just with a mate talking about stuff over coffee and the more I said the better it all sounded, and the less important the small changes to our lives seemed. I think we're on the right track and after some more deliberating and planning we'll deploy the plan. Thanks for commenting, it is greatly appreciated.
!ENGAGE 25
ENGAGEtokens.Moving in with your mother in law seems like the best situation, cinse it will take away the house debt. You talked about Faith's business being affected but yours won't be affected right? If your business is unaffected for now, you could make budget cuts to the cost of living for the main time, giving faith more time to spend with mum.
No matter how much money we have, time is a commodity that can never be bought. And right now, mum's running out of it, so I think giving her as much time as possible would be ideal. I reckon that in a couple of months, Faith will create a new business for herself in the new house, and whatever she picks, you'll be there to support her.
In Nigeria, we have a saying "As you dey hustle, make you chop life because if you no chop am, e go chop you". It basically says that try to enjoy yourself when you're hustling because the problems in life don't ever finish.
I agree with everything you say here and all of this has been discussed between Faith and I, and will be again. Money isn't the most important thing and with the clock running on Faith's mum we know what is...The time Faith get's to spend with her.
I like that saying too. Makes a lot of sense.
!ENGAGE 25
Yeah. Big steps in life but I know everything will work out in the end.
Yep, I'm proactive, hence our deliberations and pro-activity, doing something, will often make something happen. Have a great day.
ENGAGEtokens.Wow you are one wise dude when you have your shirt on. That's a very cool saying too, it sums up life in a nutshell. One day we will have no hustle left so we certainly should try and enjoy it and make the most of it while it lasts. I love it man :D
Debt free sounds awesome...But I always prefer having more income than having no income and no debt at all.
With more income, debt can be paid over time. But with no income, debt will eventually come back to us.
Anyways, that's my thought, and considering the family angle, I would say, wait for some time till the housing prices increases, or maybe put it on rent or something, if possible.
I am sure that you know what to do with the property, as you have been in this business for a long time.
I disagree, for myself at least. My debt is over my house, so not something I could save for realistically and I need somewhere to live so I have a mortgage. I don't have debt over anything else. So, for me at least, debt free would be debt free. Also, banks can call debt in at anytime bringing chaos to a person's life...Further to that, if one's job ends?
A risky gamble in these uncertain times.
There's multiple forces at play here in my situation, and of course, I haven't divulged my full position as the internet is no place to do so. One thing I know though, is that debt free is preferable than holding debt and paying interest. For Faith and I anyway, other people have different scenarios.
Thanks for your comment.
!ENGAGE 25
Looks like you are more clear about the issue now than you were when you posted it on hive.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.👍
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If it turns out she only has a year or two left with her mum; Faith's going to regret spending her time with anyone else.
What's the rental situation like? Could you put tenants in?
I've personally never been less concerned about my mortgage. I only owe AUD; and that's growing on trees right now.
I'm always concerned about my mortgage...Just having one is bad enough and we have always worked to eliminate it...Sometimes circumstances get in the way though.
Yeah, we have considered renting it to tenants and that's a viable option considering the rent will exceed the mortgage and all outgoings. If we can't make a solid decision to sell or not then that's what we'll do; Defers the sell-decision and handles the mortgage.
You're right though, the non-negotiable is the move-in...We don't know how long she has, that was the case even with the first cancer...This time...Less time is the only answer at this stage.
She's blessed to have you, mate.
Thanks mate, and me in return.
I'm not going to talk abut your financial position except in the most general of terms because it's none of my fucking business. Sam has a training word that works well in this situation. Nonya To me it means 'none of your business'. To Sam it means do something different. Anything different :)
I can and will speak to the personal aspect. The time I spent looking after my Mother was among my very best. It felt like I got to pay back a little of what she'd given to me. It helps that she likes motorcycles and understood my need to ride once in a while. :)
Being debt free has helped to carry me through some raggedy-ass times in the last 20 years. I KNOW I can live on air for a little while...
Of course, but as someone who has been around a while I'd value your opinion. It's ok though, I understand.
This post is about many things, not just debt reduction. I understand what you mean with your mum; As you know I've just gone through a lengthy scenario with my dad. I was missing him a lot this last week, don't know why. Comes and goes.
This scenario is as much about Faith's mum and debt reduction as it is about giving Faith a break...She deserves it. I'm probably more eager to change her workload (through debt reduction) and give her time with her mum, and for herself, than I am to simply reduce debt. It's not about money, but the time not owing it to someone will give Faith. I know you get it.
We have a loose plan, I'm a smart guy despite looking like a nutbag on hive, and will firm it up as time goes. There's no rush really. We have her mum's operation and chemo to face so will strategise around that and inch it forward.
I do get it. Another reason for me not to comment is that anything I might say would be noise. You may have some people fooled around here but I KNOW you will make the very best decision for you and Faith and her Mum.
My best guess is that this post was only just barely about debt reduction. That would have happened sooner or later no matter. It's just a piece of the puzzle.
It's really about possibilities and potential I think. This may surprise you, but I get some just crazy ideas from time to time and I have to expose them to others because sometimes considering things in a vacuum is not so good for me.
You got it in one! The reason for the post. I tend to sometimes put stuff out there on hive as it helps me order my thoughts. People may see it as a simple post but little do they know it may have way deeper meaning to me and might be a step down a thought-path and my way of processing or ordering things. 🙂
That's why hive is important to me.
Whether you should do it, or not, move in with your mother in law and be debt free, or not, you and Faith are the only ones who can answer that as you'll be the ones living that life and live with the consequences.
The answer is not so simple, you know that very well as it depends on the real estate market, your financial situation which only you know. There are pros and cons that only you can determine.
One thing I can tell you for sure and you can take my word for it, nothing can replace the time you spend with your loved ones! Nothing! You can bring flowers to their graves to ease your pain, but that will do no good to anyone, not even to your on conscious. What you can do now for them, that is what counts. Take this from someone who lost a mother due to cancer, after 1.5 year very tough battle. I have my conscious clear, i know I did everything I could, even more as the doctor said she has never seen a patient so well taken care of and live so much with this diagnosis. Just my two cents.
Of course, the decision will be one hundred percent ours, I just thought it would be a good conversation topic for something different to the usual posts I make. Clearly I'm not inclined to divulge my true position so it would be impossible for others to make much sense of it. There's been some good comments though.
Losing people is always difficult whether it's cancer or otherwise and you're right, it's what one does when they're here that counts. I lost my dad two months ago and have cared for him since my mum died in 2004...I feel confident we did as much as we could.
Thanks for commenting, I appreciate it.
Sounds like a plan and a no-brainer to do sooner than later. Of course always hard making a change, maybe giving a few things up. Also good to focus on the new gains and additions even more. I'm sure you'll think of ways to allow Faith to keep working if really desired. Not sure of the type of work, but perhaps a bedroom, portion of garage or even a rental camper or trailer could be used? Sounds like you have the space there to add something outdoors if needed. Just have to decide if really want it or if time to move on, or if just to spend time with the family for awhile.
We sold my wife's business late last year. While it was hard for her to let go, she actually really started to enjoy her time off after a month or two of freedom. We found a way to make the bills work, and after 8 months off, she's ready to focus on something else and looking again.
Embrace the change and focus on the positives in front of you, letting the negatives slide behind.
K
Yes, I am definitely those people willing to change habits to be debt free. For me, it's better to sacrifice some expensive hobbies than serving mortgage. Hobbies can be replaced with less expensive ones. Creativity is key. Time with family is more precious. In fact, my dream is retiring young. Talented investors in my generation opt to be child free and retire by 30 years old to travel the world. Basically, they spent several months in each country. After 25 years, they would have traveled to a hundred countries. I hope you'll set aside enough to pay for your medical insurance. Everyone grows old and has a tendency to get sick. Remember, the choice is always yours.
That is a decision I am not sure I could make easily. Pros and cons I suppose. Losing income is a bummer, but no mortgage sounds good. I am sure you will make the best decision for you and make it work.
We tend to look at things very objectively and from all angles so hopefully we make the right decision. For us I think the debt free scenario is a big plus. It has to be right though of course.
Yes, absolutely sell while you can. Diversify into some precious metals and crypto. I have a bad feeling about real estate in general.
I tend to agree with you, the pandemic situation is an unknown. Many are trying to predict it however i'm yet to see a report I'm happy to accept. I'd rather work with known scenarios and so we've started deliberating around what we know, not what we hope or predict.
Debt free? Anytime, any hour, any day. I would not blink an eye. Because every day spent in debt is time given away to pay interest. Life is too short and I would pick being happy and free and enjoy my time with my loved ones. Spending money to pursue dreams, experiences, education, spiritual fulfillment.
It seems like a good way to go right? Of course, there's a few other considerations we have to make, but being debt free is a massive win in today's society I think.
Yes it is. Debt is really a big obstacle in the pursuit for happiness and freedom
I would nominate https://hive.blog/@josyarteaga
I like the watercolour work of this user, they are really talented and I would love to see them appreciated.
Wrong post...I'll have a look though.
Oh ok, have a great week G.!
You too...Hope the week goes well.
Thanks G! It must, I don't take less than great hihi and neither do you
Great it great, but sometimes not possible, and in those times I accept passable...As long the week keeps heading toward the weekend I'm ok with it. :)
Yup, I know how much you love the week-end😊
Galen I know you are a guy who likes to consider, evaluate and cover all the bases before leaping BUT you sold me already man!
Debt free sounds awesome, even if there are small sacrifices in the future ((and who knows there even will be?)) but the idea of Faith getting to spend extra time with her Mum AND the aspect of time freedom which I personally believe to be so much more valuable than debt freedom tbh.
Being debt free and ditching the grind of the 9-5 may just stimulate some ideas for making money that your current pressure situation simply doesn't allow you to see, that sort of freedom ((to use that word again...)) may give your lateral thinkin' muscles time to react in ways you cannot currently imagine.
Make sure you are absobloodylutely comfortable before you jump either way but remember both have pro's and cons.
I hope you can find a way to make it work and go be those people who can take a big sigh in the morning and genuinely say what do we WANT to do today. Just remember you are an astute, erudite, intelligent and resourceful guy who may not have considered the options for the future that are not on the table right now. I reckon the option that brings you both the maximum amount of happiness and the opportunity to enjoy eachothers company most is the right option by the way.
I have told you this before but I am going to say it once more because it is one of my more enlightened philosophies...
You can use that by the way, I am not prissy about my intellectual property mate. :D
We always pick at a scenario from all angles and this one will be no different. I like the thought of flexibility of action and of thought, which ultimately decides action anyway, through going debt free. It brings options. The primary reason for the potential move is to give Faith more time with her mum, the rest is secondary and so we have mote time to think about that I guess. The time thing is the most important right now.
Re: the below in your message...
That phrase has been my personal philosophy and ethos for many years and is largely responsible for why I move forward in my life with little regret. It's very personal to me and there's many other concepts that form the whole picture...I don't mind you, or anyone else, faux-claiming it though...But I get more enjoyment knowing people have been applying it to their own lives.