Which is more valuable ? Community driven marketing or Third party agent marketing ?

in LeoFinance3 years ago

Before I go ahead and write this blog. I wanted to mention that I have no plan to leave/quit Hive like I did with steem.

There are three main reasons why some stakeholders don't see the value in our proposal of community driven, results focused Twitter marketing.

  • They don't believe in community driven marketing.
  • They don't understand how valuable Twitter Shilling is.
  • They don't don't trust in community leader called NathanMars and his integrity.

Just wanted get our community's thoughts about the title of this blog.

Truly appreciate your time and feedback.

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It's not an either or question - there's plenty of room for both.

That being said, I will again point out that your proposal that essentially says, "give me the money and I'll figure out how to spend it" isn't something I'd go for no matter who asked, regardless of trust. Turning this into a "Nathan versus the Hive Elite" (whoever you think that is) fight does nothing but foster negative feelings and is ultimately bad for our community.

Lastly, please consider addressing the list of questions @ybanezkim26 asked in his reply to you on your other post - it would be a good starting point to putting together a more reasonable proposal.

there's plenty of room for both.

Yes absolutely. I personally value community driven marketing much higher, specially a decentralised network like HIVE.

I take the responsibility for not explaining the proposal well with more clear details, action plans and how the fund will being used. It's an idea that have developed over time went through serious of iteration from 10 months of trial and error.

I'm working on presenting the final version of this proposal for the people who don't trust me or have little idea of what we're doing on Twitter all these months. Me setting my witness node and putting up third proposal even after two failure attempts is something that in line with my long term vision of creating competitive and innovative HIVE ecosystem that empower entrepreneurship not politics nor status game.

Elite word is used here because we want to create a truly decentralised HIVE network that runs by community for community. I personally feel there is a small group people in HIVE who're playing politics and creating an environment where I felt it's about who you know and not how much long term value you're brining to our network.

Responding to @ybanezkim26 now :)

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I personally feel there is a small group people in HIVE who're playing politics and creating an environment where I felt it's about who you know and not how much long term value you're brining to our network.

Always been the case.

You're most probably right.

Also, I do understand the complexity of decentralised network like Hive and we as a community was betrayed by many people in the past.

Luckily, we as a community have a voice and stake, It's time to empower competition/innovation/growth. As we grow bigger and become more decentralised, there will be less politics and more community building and dapps building.

2021 is a massive year for our HIVE community.

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I see deep value in your work. keep on going!

Large part of our community filled with wonderful people like yourself.

It's time to empower more decentralised HIVE network that runs by community for community.

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Your post was promoted by @jfang003

We are talking about this topic on Leo Market Talk. So we will bang around some ideas. Our way of getting the information out there.

I can not speak for everyone, but I am for your proposal. You are at 40% of your goal to get funding from the DHF. Be patient, some folks took a while to get their funding. Your proposal is doing very well.

Appreciate all of your hard work!

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One doesn't exclude the other. If you ask which one is more valuable, I say I prefer third party agent, who has experience and means to deliver marketing objectives.
Twitter shilling is somewhat controversial and will draw attention of twitter mods. I already think people involved in it have a form of shadow ban in place and post only among themselves. Voters decided to fund one marketing proposal that they think suits best.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

I see HIVE as a decentralised crypto and compare it to Bitcoin. Therefore I believe in community driven marketing more!

Voters decided to fund one marketing proposal that they think suits best.

100%

I haven't reached out to anyone from our community personally and asked for them to vote on this proposal. Every stakeholders can decide for themselves and evaluate each proposals.

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We absolutely need both mate simply because there are too many people who see this blockchain as nothing more than their own personal cash machine and not as a long-term community.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need agency marketing but right now, we do, to give the place some professionalism and show this is a serious outfit and worth investing their valuable time and money in.

Keep doing your thing fella. It's appreciated but don't forget that many are short-sighted when it comes to community and have tunnel vision when it comes to cash and almost everyone is not as community-minded as you.

If you need a little inspiration and feel-good factor, have a look at GEMS. Their posts are not something I would choose to read but damn, those Venezuelans are all following a leader somewhere and working together to earn their corn!

Perhaps a different approach than Twitter maybe? I for one really don't use it in the real world as I find it so totally messy as a form of communication, but as I'm a minority oldie, thats perhaps understandable!

Take care and best wishes to you :-)

We absolutely need both

I agree.

When you find the right thing to do, when you find the right people to work with, you invest deeply. Sticking with it for years is really how you make the big returns.

Twitter + Clubhouse are our tool that can help us build genuine relationship with the people who loves decentralisation and wants to empower freedom of speech.

Perhaps a different approach than Twitter maybe?

We've tried many different ways to bring results from Twitter Shilling mainly because we never had true leader who can really represent HIVE and the people who put their time and efforts have been incentivise very little.

Yes we're planning to begin mass Investor/Partnership hunting execution with Twitter once our DHF proposal get funded.

Appreciate your encouraging words my man!

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Community driven marketing is more important to me because a 3rd party agent will not try their best. At most a 3rd party will only do enough to get paid and have no interest in actually making things succeed in the long run. I trust you will do a good job but the top stakeholders tend to do their own things (along with a lot of stuff that I don't understand).

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Truly appreciate your Trust.

It's time draft a new version of the proposal like an entrepreneur pitching the startup idea.

Let's create a HIVE network that runs by community for community.

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I totally support community driven marketing .

Why ? There is passion behind community driven marketing whereas in 3rd part promotion / marketing , there is money behind their work .

I trust you and your work .

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Thanks a million for your encouragement!

People like yourself make me believe in decentralised community owned HIVE.

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The least I can do is encourage you . Keep up the great work and let me know if I can help you with data , charts or similar to promote HIVE.

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Thank you so much.

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I don't think there's a way to quantify the impact of twitter shilling, but there IS a way to quantify the results of third-party marketing. We get metrics about the number of eyes on traditional ads. We get numbers about clicks on links. We can pair those with our own internal new user stats to see actual verifiable results.

We don't get any of that with twitter shilling. Without numbers, it feels like we're just making noise that gets ignored. How much actual traffic we drive to the chain by hyping HIVE is almost entirely a black box, and that leaves it up to faith that we're doing anything productive - which for lots of us isn't super great. I for one like to know my work is having an effect, not just feel like my work is having an effect.

I think that to get actual results and useful analytics you'd have to apply some of the same methods marketing teams use. We need to, as a community, standardize how we shill hive so that we're using something that we can at least infer some sort of data from. Everyone including signup links for HiveOnBoard for example. There's a good chance the hiveonboard team could look at the number of twitter referrals and provide some numbers to help see.

There's probably other ways to improve it as well, but I have to deal with a toddler so I can't expand further.

I have to deal with a toddler so I can't expand further.

Thank you for taking your time to explain and leave a comment.

How about seeing a Tweet from Vitalik Buterin saying that he bought 50 million HIVE ?

Bringing just one big investor or partnership with a community driven marketing can help HIVE network to grow 10X.

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I... think that'd be good for our price... but I don't know that it does much for the community, personally.

But that could be my bias against super-rich people who have no stake in the community and are only looking to pump and slowly exit.

I personally think that HIVE is more than our price feeds, and without buying into the actual site and our ancillary services and using them... I don't give two fucks what size someone's bags are because those people are transient and are just looking for a chance to dump down the road.

So, for me, I don't think it's enough to have "one big investor". I think we need to have passionate adopters that actually believe in the service, and I'd rather have 10,000 of those than one Vitalik any day.

I personally think that HIVE is more than our price feeds

Price reflects growth potential and innovation.

To bring innovation & growth, we need to bring the right investors and right partnership.

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Worth noting - I'm not at all saying your approach is wrong. As we've discussed before, I believe in your approach and I think it has value. I support it and I try to tastefully shill when I can (largely through talking about it with IRL friends and getting them to jump into HIVE)... so I'm, in a broad sense, totally on-side with you.

I don't think anything you're doing would hurt us in any way, I just think I'd focus on different parts... but there's no wrong answer and I'm 100% all in on seeing you succeed with what you're trying.

If we throw enough shit at the wall, something will stick. We have room to try every approach.

We need a professional PR team that will take care of things that we simply can't. For instance, email marketing, it's actually the most efficient communication chanel and if done properly the ratio of success is something like 1:3.

Twitter on the other hand showed no tangible results. Don't get me wrong, I love what you're doing on Twitter and if I had to trust anyone in the community that would be you, but I have a feeling that we're missing something.

However, I did notice that lvl of engagement on your posts increased by a lot

We need to expand outside Twitter.

Sure, fundamental base will always be Twitter, but we can fund adds and grow community on both Facebook and Instagram or Torum.

We have a lot of options.

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I love what you're doing on Twitter and if I had to trust anyone in the community that would be you.

Your words mean a lot to me!

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We got this mate!

So fucking close!

Apparently some super expensive marketing agency that doesn't have a clue about blockchain for whatever reason. lol freakin dumb stuff going on around here anymore. Reminds me of governments just blowing money.

Remind me please, how many users did community driven marketing bring? 150 a day, kind sir.
This amount is slightly bigger in comparison to the times there was no Twitter shilling yet. So let's compare these two options by comparing its results, ok?

Reminds me of governments just blowing money.

One of the reasons I got into crypto is after figuring out that most politicians only look after themselves and act like they have people's interest at heart.

Some people on HIVE are greatly benefiting by playing this politics game and making themselves rich in the short term at our community's expenses. We saw with this guy promised to build hive hardware wallet and other girl working on Hive exchange listing.

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I believe more in community driven marketing and I believe it has more potential and value than third party agent marketing reason because;

  • Community driven marketing has no limit and duration it lasts for. It continues as long as the community remains united.
  • Community driven marketing isn't as costly as third party agent marketing. Community members aren't demanding and are contented whether there's incentives or no incentives.
  • Community driven marketing will make use of different creative minds/ideas to market rather than a rigid proven marketing system that doesn't yield desired result at times.

Community is key, and nothing else can stand against it.

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Even a centralised unicorn company like AirBnb understand the power of word of mouth.

Our Community can tell our own HIVE experiences than any third party do.

Community marketing will bring long term sustainable growth.

Rewriting the proposal with clear and concrete evidence/details.

Can't wait to publish!!

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Absolutely! No one can talk about Hive more than the community members. That's why we need to encourage and empower Hive community members to go on Twitter to shill Hive using their experience with Hive as their marketing point.

Can't wait to publish!!

Honestly eager to see the full framework of our goal.

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It's coming soon :)

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community-driven marketing is good because the community knows our Hive the best whereas third parties do it like a job for a certain time. The community is working on Hive and if they promote it then its very good.

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Like Bitcoin community is HIVE's strongest asset.

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  • They don't believe in community driven marketing.

I speak only for myself and what I personally believe and feel, but I don't think it's necessarily about not believing in the marketing, I think it's more about how it's being done.

I mean, I have said this like a thousand times since I first joined back in July 2016. I think it's stupid to target the "anarchist-basement living-anti government" type of people. I don't think we should try to focus on crypto enthusiasts either. We should target Bob and Mary from Facebook. The "ordinary" social media people.

I think it makes a lot more sense to target the masses instead of 1 billionaire as well, even though it's in theory might be easier to get 1 billionaire on board compared to 100's or 1000's of "average Joe's".

  • They don't understand how valuable Twitter Shilling is.

Again, I think it's just a matter of how it is being done and the outcome people expects.

  • They don't don't trust in community leader called NathanMars and his integrity.

Even though I know that some people would have a lot more support than some others, I don't think this is the case with you. I think you'll have better luck than me, but I also think that there are others out there who would have a lot more support than you for doing something identical or similar. So I think it's more about the 2 first points.

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We should target Bob and Mary from Facebook. The "ordinary" social media people.

If you see the growth of BitClout, you will understand that Bob and Mary from Facebook is joining BitClout because of billionaire investors are backing BitClout and top social media influencers pulling them to join BitClout.

Billionaire investors will bring more innovation to HIVE.

Big Crypto partnership will bring more developers to HIVE.

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I totally understand what you mean and I actually agree with the things you say, but I doubt Hive will be attractive enough for a billionaire to jump onboard without engagement..

I mean, we're still having issues to retain the users we have. They are struggling and they quit for various reasons. Some leaves because they don't earn "enough" (which basically means that they expect more than they get) and others leaves because they don't get any traction and engagement.

I can't see a billionaire throwing in a lot of money in a "social platform" that is far from social, but I would love to see someone prove that the things I believe is wrong. I don't mind being wrong in this case.

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Dan Larimer leaving to build steemit 2.0
Ned Scott's failure with SMT
Justin Sun buying our Steem brand

in my personal opinion, our community became less social platform because of the above reasons.

That's why we need the right investors and the right partnership to take HIVE to the next level.

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Still think it will end up passing

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Choosing one over the other wouldn't be the best move I will take when it comes to community driven Twitter marketing or third party agent marketing.

One is bound to be effective than the other, one is going to be done with passion and the other probably done as another marketing project which does not necessarily eliminate it being done professionally though.

So while we are on this subject how about both co-existing? I don't see one interfering with the other.

The community definitely wants to get Hive exposed to the world out there, we just have majorly arrive at a conclusion on ways of implementing Hive market either through community driven or third party, I am willing to support either for the good of Hive.

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co-existing

100%

I personally choose community driven marketing as my first choice. Satoshi created more true believers of Bitcoin and the community is Bitcoin's greatest asset.

True believers of HIVE will create more True believers.

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idk, if third party get's one semi big online person that gets really interested in the possibilities of the chain (personal community, option of making a token that you can distribute how ever, owning the community...) then it could be valuable because the fanbase would stay.

twitter shilling gets people making accounts but we must understand that it is hard learning curve. and when they make few posts with no idea what are they doing (entering no communities) and getting no feedback, a lot just quit.

my thought is that you should focus on making connections and finding those people, and we should support those tweets. When you reply on someone's tweet and you get 50-100 likes on it i feel it is more effective the all of us spamming that tweet with hive.

I mean i know nothing about twitter, i am there for a while and have like 300 followers so :D

When you think long term, The community driven marketing can sustain itself without further funding. The relationship that our stakeholders can built with the wider crypto community will become extremely valuable in the near future.

We've tried so many different ways to shill hive on Twitter. Stella gave up with the HIVE marketing and I don't know why, CryptoFinally got kicked out and theycallmedan's account got suspended. There was an opportunity for our community work together with Charles Hoskinson of Cardano and we couldn't capitalise on it. Call to actions have very little impact.

What I learned is that, there is no one our community come forward and represent HIVE on Twitter to start building that relationship with other crypto people. So I decided to become that person and taking massive steps towards bringing actual investors/partnership to HIVE.

Time for me to rewrite a detailed proposal and give our HIVE stakeholders an opportunity to really see my vision with community driven marketing.

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