Why I didn't buy my land with Bitcoin (when I could have)

in LeoFinance3 years ago (edited)

I took legal ownership of 6 acres of land in Portugal yesterday. It was a bit stressful at the final hurdle because of technical issues involving having to log into the main bank's site which is apparently different to the regular online site I'm used to using, and after a 30 minute phone call with support finally getting scuppered with a 7.5K EU transfer limit, which didn't cover the purchase, so we had to make a 90 minute round trip to my local but not so local bank branch.

En route I asked the loverly woman passing the land on to me what she was going to spend the sale money on - she said cryptocurrency (actually it was something else and crypto but the old brain-trigger went with C word and I can't remember what that something else was!?!)

Given the bank-transfer problems she said she'd take Bitcoin - I had my Trezor and lap-top with me, I could have literally pulled over, and paid her the full amount in BTC there and then in five minutes, and then job done, albeit it after a 15-30 minute wait for network times.

I did seriously think about the BTC option, but I opted for the Euros because...

  1. As soon as I sell that BTC it becomes UK taxable, and I'm hoping to hold onto it long enough to be able to qualify for NO TAX once I'm under Portuguese tax legislation.
  2. I think it may have been a legal requirement for funds to go through a Portuguese bank for the land purchase to be formally recognised - BTC may be free of national jurisdictions, land titles are most definitely not! And the contract of sale SPECIFICALLY said EU.
  3. I would find it odd transferring that much money to what is at time of transfer an entirely unknown to me BTC wallet, with no obvious links to the person I'm sending to!

On point 2, we had to send photos to the solicitor monitoring the sale of the bank transfer - not sure a screen capture of BTC wallet addresses would have gone down too well!

It would have been cool to pay in Bitcoin but...

That's about it - it would have been cool, there'd be a huge amount of Kudos about 'having bought my land with BTC' - but at the end of the day this is a formal purchase within the boundaries of the legal entity of Portugal - and you have to go through regular banking channels!

But it was still tempting!

And of course it would have been rolling the dice with my wealth - I would have bought back that BTC with EU next week, which means I could have either made or lost possibly several thousands of dollars, which would be great if that's to the upside, but you know BTC, there's no guarantee of that - and the thought of sitting there waiting for a pull back... been there, I'd rather not go there again.

20210304_150555.jpg
Just a small corner of my newly purchased land!

The purchase eventually went through OK at the bank, even if they weren't happy about it (yes I know, it's another case of err... but it's my fucking money, thank you!).

So maybe that's another reason to hodl the BTC - it might well come in more useful in the future!

It's nice to meet other people into crypto - I plugged Hive, LEO and Rune, I think they already had some AVA, I could have gone on but the whole point of the land is to get me out of the cryptowonderland for half the day at least so I held back banging on about it too much;

For now I'm a happy bunny, planning what do to with said land!

And I'll get right to doing shit with it, right after a few bevvies!

Good day!

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How fabulous - your land looks blessed indeed, @revisesociology ! All good things to you, and thank you so much for sharing your experience and thoughts around this issue - it's important to have tangible knowledge about the practicalities of navigating legal-crypto-banking worlds! :-D

Hey cheers, this one was best in fiat for sure!

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Congrats on your new purchased land. I can imagine how tempting it was ... but I think you did the right thing now to decide for the euros. I'm sure your bitcoin will come in very handy later. Looking forward to seeing what you're going to make out of it.

It was a nice drive to the bank anyway, up and down a mountain and then back, no real traffic.

Mind you BTC is down now!

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Congratulations on your newly acquired land, now what to do to make it all worthwhile.

Going into land deal I think the older formal fiat route is best with few fully understanding nor using purchase of assets with Bitcoin.

Holding onto your BTC may stand you in better stead going forward.

@tipu curate

Cheers! I agree, hold that BTC!

Thanks for the tipu, great game that.

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That's exciting news.

I think you made the right choice in not using BTC to buy your land. It seems way too early in the game for that. No sense in risking not being able to get the Title Deeds.

Looking forward to what comes next.

Have about a video with a walk around your land? 😊

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I did a video yesterday but I think I might re-do it - it needs a video, you just can't get a sense of scale with pictures, it's all too green.

I think I needed a track record of having paid!

I'll be doing a few vids I think. Probably means I won't get anything actually done!

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Congrats for Land.
All your investments resonate well with my thinking.
Keep the land and keep the BTC is really a nice idea.

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Cheers, it's a nice combination to have for sure.

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Would have been cool, but a wise choice in the end I think.

Did you give them your Hive account?

Looking forward to seeing it take shape, congrats!

Yes I think so, don't do things just for the Kudos!

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thats crazy that she was wanting bitcoin, it really is at a tipping point now of mass adoption. I hope soon i can buy things from everyday people with Bitcoin. I think instead of it being frowned upon one day it will be the most desired form of payment. Thats quite a chunk of land Buddy, well done. :)

Young-ish couple in their very early 30s looking to buy more crypto - although she was pretty alternative, so I assume he is too, I couldn't call this 'mainstream' but it's a step for sure.

I'm happy for sure!

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Yep that is the killer with Bitcoin the taxes. Every trade is a taxable event. Congrats on the land buy!

Hey cheers!

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Smart choice. You've got to do it by the book. Think of the mess that could result if someone had any grounds for challenging your title many years down the road.

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Quite - and I don't really want to encourage any state authorities to take a trip through my crypto transactions! I mean it's all there for public viewing, but there's no sense in actually inviting people to have a look!

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Besides, why pay capital gains tax now? Holding long may be advantageous for tax purchases. And if Portugal does not tax crypto gains at all, then selling BTC to fund a land purchase would be totally stupid if possible to avoid.

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I agree, that's why I didn't sell any!

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Congrats
Bitcoin made the process easier while still in the banking industry complicating it more and more

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Well it would have been easier with BTC, but for this the legal-status of banks was required!

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Congrats on your purchase. We do need to normalise paying for things with crypto. I have spent some $St--m in the past and will spend $Hive too eventually. I want to keep building my stake for now.

Must be exciting to make plans for your land. I expect you have lots of ideas to try out.

Have fun.

I'm so exited, I can barely contain myself!

We need a video of you running naked around your plot. You can do what you like there :)

I think clothed only...

The perimeter is about 0.6- 0.7 KMs - 7-8 laps and I've got a Park Run.

I think you would build a 'trim trail' to get a full workout. Mind you, working all that land will keep you fit.

I have plans for workouts - a trim trail I could do!

I'm hearing that a lot of Brits are buying land in Spain and Portugal, due to affordable land prices. Also read that some of them were having problems with the authorities afterwards, so I'm glad you took the extra steps and did it right.

So what do you plan to do with it? Build a futuristic crypto community? Or maybe just get back to the land and live the natural life?

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I think there's more problems in Spain that Portugal - I'm planning on planting lots of trees initially maybe get a few people living on the land too, defo a mix of local eco and crypto.

I thought of naming it something crypto related, then I thought better of it - don't want to attract any BTC muggers!

You Brits have some quaint place names over there such as "blackpool" as well as the best accents in the world. An old-west style name popped into mind: 'Bitcoin Gulch' That'll bring them in for sure!

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I'm planning on planting lots of trees initially maybe get a few people living on the land too, defo a mix of local eco and crypto.

Hi dude. Keep me updated on your plans and progress as I might be looking for somewhere to live in Portugal in the next 12-18 months. I'm not sure how I'll swing it visa wise, but I have a friend who lives in Bulgaria and she tells me that Bulgaria is one of those countries that you can go stay for 16 weeks to reset your visa status in other EU countries so that could/might become my life. Autumn/Winter in Bulgaria and snowboard in the mountains, spring/summer in Portugal, surf and write an get a tan :-)

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Escaping the UK I think is a good move - it won't be that difficult, they'll still be plenty of digital nomads around.

Plus it is going to go way up still. You want to HODL that stuff for sure! That is awesome that you were able to get some new land. My wife and I are in the early stages of looking for something new ourselves. I wouldn't be shocked if one day we are able to make purchases like that with crypto. The winds are definitely changing in our favor, at least a little bit. Is there a house on it or are you going to have to build? How exciting!

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Hodl for now for sure!

It's rustic land so technically I can't live on it, but no one seems to mind if you do!

There is a building that's built as a house, but small enough to classify as an agricultural storage unit, that's the way around it if you get my drift!

Ah, okay, so you are just looking to have something to own, not necessarily a place that you are going to call home? What is the climate like there? Does it get cold?

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Oh it's home already!

Climate is great - it'll dip down to freezing for a couple of months in Jan/ Feb at night sometimes - but that's as low as it gets.

This time of year it's about 6-7 degrees at night, up to 18/19 in the day.

40 degrees in the shade during August though, so there are challenges.

Man, now I have to go convert all of these numbers to F! :)

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That is what I thought too. But I just go "Alexa, what is 7 degrees celcius in fairenheight" and she tells me it is 44.6 deg F. 18 = 64.4 F.

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Ah, you are one of those people who don't mind having their privacy invaded by the "listeners" at Amazon! :)

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Congrats!

Hey cheers! I'm excited to get going, you're quite the inspiration in that regard!

Glad to be an inspiration! I hope you get to take your time and enjoy the site development process! I am looking forward to seeing what you do with the place.

Awesome. Congratulations. So what are you planning to do with said land? I think I saw you said something about growing something. It looks like pretty clear yet rocky land. As a long term thinker like me, I'd suggest a few fruit trees. Grapes?

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Oh fruit trees grapes, veggies, lots of cork oaks, I'll figure it out!

Awesome! Enjoy. I imagine I'm going to start seeing posts about the wonders of compost from you real soon. Worms, Man's True Best Friend.

wow, that is amazing. Does she have more land to sell for BTC? Land actually the only thing I'd trade it for.

No - just the one plot I'm afraid!

Congratulations on your land buy! Wish I would have done this at the end of 2017. Who knows, maybe this time around. Looks like a great piece of property though! Congratulations again and good luck with the purchase!

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Hey cheers, I am MOST excited!

Congratz!

In all honesty, I would much rather sell my house for crypto, than buy a house or land with BTC but I get your point. It would have been cool if you could have done so.

Talking about all this, I have some exciting plans myself. Am dreaming big at the moment but it all depends on when I can sell my house ( that has been on the market since November ). I got my eyes on another house with some land near to the place I'm house sitting right now.

The problem is that it's 2.5 times more expensive than the sale price for my current house but hey, we're in a bull market ;<)

Might post about it this weekend to be a step closer to my dream.

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Nice!!! Congratulations, Karl!!! You deserve it!

Good that you used FIAT and not the BTC, even if for mass adoption we shall start using some.

Let's see the posts rolling with your ideas and development.

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Oh I'm sure they'll be plenty of those posts forthcoming!

Yes! This would be a very entertaining and motivating series, that is for sure.

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Exciting news, definitely deserves a toast! 🍻 Congrats and I'm looking forward to future posts regarding the land! :)

Hey cheers, I am pretty excited!

Congrats on the land purchase and... enjoy the bevvies m8 ;-)

There is some type of synchronicity going on seeing this post today because I spent 6 hours yesterday seriously researching my options for moving to the 'crypto tax paradise' that is Portugal. I was scrolling through properties on rightmove for half of that time lol

As soon as I sell that BTC it becomes UK taxable, and I'm hoping to hold onto it long enough to be able to qualify for NO TAX once I'm under Portuguese tax legislation.

I can't lie, this is a big part of why I want to move to Portugal. But from all my research it sounds like it is even harder to escape prison Britain than I thought after Brexit. Everything I learned seemed to suggest that my only option for an 'easy visa' and chance at residency is to go with the cheapest level of the golden visa scheme (280k invested in property in the interior area of the country), which would be great if I had 280k lying around. I had dreams about buying property in Portugal with BTC profits at/near the end of this bull run, but it seems like that might be a little difficult.

Anyway, I might well follow up on that offer of answering a few questions on discord the next few days about how your experience has been moving over there. It will probably only be partly relevant given you got there b4 brexit, but you know what they say 'knowledge is power.'

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I don't think it's that difficult - Three women from the UK have just bought the land opposite here and are moving out this year.