Conflict confirmed

in OCD18 days ago (edited)

We attended a Confirmation party today, something I don't really know much about, but the boy can now take holy communion and get married in a church. Score? There is a confirmation camp where the kids get together and have to do some tests before they can be confirmed members of the church. In the name of equality, there is another version for non-believers, where I guess they get confirmed as heathens and witches. It is very likely that our daughter will end up a heathen of some kind.

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While I don't mind people believing whatever they believe while it doesn't hurt others, I think that too often these differentiators are used to classify and segment and based on grouping, judgments are made. I see nationalism and political affiliation the same, where people make assumptions like, "Ah, he's American - I know what he is like" without factoring in the massive amount of variation between the group classed "American".

My wife told someone that I didn't drink beer the other day and heard - "But he's Australian!"

While generalizations and stereotyping can be handy in many ways, the focus on arbitrary labeling does far more harm than good, especially in the digital world where "clicks" are made on "cliques" - where a lot of the social transaction traffic is driven due to conflict between groups and people who are triggered by headlines that "attack" their belief system of choice, without even seeking clarification - classification is enough. So much polarization, so much drama.

It is great for business as it allows them to play one group off against another without having to "get in the middle" meaning that the groups blame each other, rather than the real antagonists who instigated the conflict in the first place - Like a sadistic mother whispering in the ears of her children to turn them upon each other for her own amusement and then, to play the role of savior as each turns to her in confidence that she has their best at heart.

People love to feel part of a group, even if the group they are part of does harm. Once one feels the taste of exclusivity, all manner of behavior can be justified and explained away - "we are God's people" - whether that god be attached to a religion, a state or a product - anything to feel more special than others - the greatest country on earth - which is that, what is the criteria and who does the judging?

The difference between extremes within the group distribution across pretty much every scale should indicate how useless group classification can be when randomly picking a name out of a hat and making a complex judgement based on an arbitrary metric like nationality - as if that is all that is needed to know the sum of a person. The probabilities of some factors are there, the problem is that we don't actually have the numbers in our head to calculate the probabilities, all we have are the whispers in our ears telling us what to expect.

We are primed for conflict by the information we are fed and we are veracious eaters of whatever supports our world view and, whatever doesn't. We love to hear about how terrible our adversaries are as it justifies our own terribleness, gives cause and reason for violence - salvation for protecting what we stand for, the group.

I have faced a lot of prejudice in my 40+ years, pretty much all of it coming from people who put a lot of value in the labels they hold dear, the groups to which they are proud to hold membership. Judgement based on the color of skin, a name, a nationality or an assumption of my religious stance - none actually new me. It is interesting how confident we can be making "judgement calls" on things we do not know, because an authority of some description, be it parent, priest, paper or lover, said it is so.

How few truly confirm their beliefs - and how many just assume they are in the right?

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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It's somewhat amusing how much of a tizzy some people can get into when you challenge their opinion (and how often it's met with indignant "it's just my opinion!" or screaming about how you're being disrespectful, and yet they feel perfectly justified doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING to everyone else).

Like a sadistic mother whispering in the ears of her children to turn them upon each other for her own amusement and then, to play the role of savior as each turns to her in confidence that she has their best at heart

Who does this.

Actually don't tell me, I don't want to know, bad things might happen because my opinion was challenged XD

Once one feels the taste of exclusivity

I actually really, really hate exclusivity and I don't know whether it's subconsciously or otherwise because of

all manner of behavior can be justified and explained away

and ironically go to some ridiculous extremes to avoid it which probably loops me back straight around to where I didn't want to be XD

or screaming about how you're being disrespectful, and yet they feel perfectly justified doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING to everyone else).

This bit I find the funniest :)

Who does this.

I know cases.

and ironically go to some ridiculous extremes to avoid it which probably loops me back straight around to where I didn't want to be XD

If you can't beat them, start your own and be better than them - that'll show em! :D

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If you can't beat them, start your own and be better than them - that'll show em! :D

Damn straight!

...wait.

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Prejudice is a mental shortcut people use in order to avoid the burden of thinking every time they meet someone. It is scientifically proven people do it for easing their thinking process. So we turn to thinking again. Because if every time when I meet an Australian, Romanian or Irish, I would have to use my brain to get to know him/her and evaluate them. But if I stored a shortcut, then click...I play the same tape and I don't have to make the effort to think. We are a creature of comfort more than we like to admit.

For sure, but that same mental shortcut can be leveraged by those who know how to control the behaviors - like pavlov's dog. It is an interesting discussion though :)

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I agree on that. Once you have a well trained mind , you can use the weaknesses of your brain as an advantage. It does require a lot of conquering of the self though. Yes, it is up for debate

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Conflict confirmed! Interesting title to expose the prejudices we face on a daily basis due to social, political, and religious situations. For me, the three areas mentioned are edges of the human phenomenon, probably a sociologist would define it as arrangements of the social construct and its dysfunctions.

Based on the event that begins your story, I have a question, was the party a confirmation or first communion? From the context I deduce that the second, that is, the Catholic sacrament after baptism where they teach the catechism to children about the ten biblical commandments. I come from a non-practicing Catholic family, where fulfilling the sacraments was a tradition without deepening the faith, just to meet social guidelines. Today I do not consider myself a Catholic, nor a Christian in the strict sense of the word, but now I sincerely believe in the God who inspired this religion and the different denominations originated through the schisms that occurred in history.

I agree with you regarding the confirmed conflict, because whoever is ignorant of the deep sense of faith will be more than intolerant towards his neighbor, he can go to the extreme of being a persecutor, contradicting Biblical teachings. By the way, one of the elements of judgments that made me separate from the religions is the manipulation of the scriptures to dominate the masses. On the other hand, neither do I oscillate towards atheism or the agnostic, simple, because in essence, they only change the idol by replacing it with extreme humanism, maintaining the same evils.

I think you have a great responsibility in the task of educating your daughter in a highly manipulated world where elites play with our own minds, and in general we don't even realize it. A pagan world with a mask of religious goodness, double discourses prosper dressed in good intentions, with the strategy of the politically correct, fallacious, and corrosive pragmatism.

The conflict is millennial in the human heart, if you contrast the catechism with the biblical scripture under the ten commandments, you will show in part, the root of the evil of the western world, by the way, not so different from the eastern world and its beliefs, we are more alike than we think.

I have a question, was the party a confirmation or first communion?

A confirmation - for ~15 year olds. Finland is a generally Lutheran country - though I wouldn't call it a religious country, it is more non-practicing than practicing.

I come from a non-practicing Catholic family, where fulfilling the sacraments was a tradition without deepening the faith, just to meet social guidelines.

I think this is common. It is also one of the worst parts of the social engineering, people behaving to fit into something they don't believe in. It makes "faith" a job, in many ways.

Today I do not consider myself a Catholic, nor a Christian in the strict sense of the word, but now I sincerely believe in the God who inspired this religion and the different denominations originated through the schisms that occurred in history.

Believing in God has very little to do with the organization in religions - I have literally talked with priests who do not believe in god. A strange job choice.

On the other hand, neither do I oscillate towards atheism or the agnostic, simple, because in essence, they only change the idol by replacing it with extreme humanism, maintaining the same evils.

I don't see the point of the atheist or agnostic label either, but for discussion purposes, some kind of word is needed - but a word is never the thing.

My position is simple and practical. Do my best. Regardless of the outcome, god, afterlife or fade to black - I would have lived a good life. If there is a god I will accept the evidence, and if it judges me and punishes me for being a non-believer even though I have been a good person, that is not the kind of god I would want to spend my time on - a petty and bitter, self-serving and narcissistic god who demands people love it or will punish them for it. If that is the kind of god others admire, it is no wonder there is so much violence in the world and worship of the elites.

The conflict is millennial in the human heart, if you contrast the catechism with the biblical scripture under the ten commandments, you will show in part, the root of the evil of the western world, by the way, not so different from the eastern world and its beliefs, we are more alike than we think.

We are all much the same, despite how much difference we attribute each other.

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I don't see the point of the atheist or agnostic label either, but for discussion purposes, some kind of word is needed - but a word is never the thing.

Believer, atheist, and agnostic; it is just another type of social stereotype in most cases very subtle that causes much harm to humanity. In extreme cases, no way! Wars, exterminations, intolerances just to name a few realities.

My position is simple and practical. Do my best. Regardless of the outcome, god, afterlife or fade to black - I would have lived a good life. If there is a god I will accept the evidence, and if it judges me and punishes me for being a non-believer even though I have been a good person, that is not the kind of god I would want to spend my time on - a petty and bitter, self-serving and narcissistic god who demands people love it or will punish them for it. If that is the kind of god others admire, it is no wonder there is so much violence in the world and worship of the elites.

My friend, you have a very respectable and logical position. I think you hit the nail on the head, but what is being a good person? In a world, with relative ethics it is very difficult to determine. Perhaps, in the not too distant future, that judgment could be determined by artificial intelligence, we could be in for a big surprise.

I think that the relationship with God is not so trivial, that it goes beyond the utilitarian and emotional, it is a serious matter that needs our total intelligence. It requires that we know him, in this sense, I think that atheists are closer to knowing him than believers, at least, they investigate them to find their alleged flaws from the human point of view.

Friend, a council with humility and without interest that I want to share with you, you do not have to accept it, after all, we all have the ability to choose; do seek intimacy with God and act intelligently accordingly, we do not need a visible religion, if not the one we carry at heart, very likely to disagree with the official church (a social construct). In this sense, the conflict is going confirmed.

Changing the subject, I really enjoy your post, keep up the work as always.

Take good care of yourself and your family.

This was a great thread to read. I wish i had come back and finished before posting my comment. You put things more eloquently than i did with a couple of the same issues. This has been a fun post and an awesome discussion on everyone's part. I really love that people open up and share their experiences, for better and for worse. I almost, ALMOST feel guilty for taking the bait in the title and addressing the faith aspect when the main point overall was to talk about the other issues perhaps... but this has been a lively discussion and no love lost. (i don't think) We need more civil discourses like these in society. I am glad Hive has carved out a place where this can occur. In some places this conversation may have started riots and looting on both sides. Or in other countries some folks could be put to death for this thread. Crazy days for sure. Glad to find some rational folks willing to engage. Thanks Janaveda for sharing!

Perhaps, in the not too distant future, that judgment could be determined by artificial intelligence, we could be in for a big surprise.

I think it is "kind of" being judged that way now through the algorithms pushed across social media - it just judges based on what makes its owner profit.

I think that atheists are closer to knowing him than believers, at least, they investigate them to find their alleged flaws from the human point of view.

I think curiosity is core to faith, yet many believers are far more "blind faith" than many.

I have less trouble considering the existence of a God, than the correctness of a religion. For me, the jury is always in deliberation, until there is a definitive answer and that won't be known, until it is.

If God indeed does exist, the sheer enormity of it makes it incomprehensible to what is the human mind, imagination and all it can possibly be. I find it hubris when people say "to know God" when that in itself would be to know all by definition. At best, all a human can do is accept a God, but that would be blind and on faith once again, no substantial evidence available.

Changing the subject, I really enjoy your post, keep up the work as always.

Thank you. It is always a little bit of a risk with these kinds of posts, but in general, people are very good to talk with about these things, and I find them important to discuss. I don't need to convince you or anyone else, but the discussion is part of building the literacy to delve deeper and discover for oneself. If you don't teach kids about economics and finance, they will likely fail to do well with it - if you do not teach people how to explore their inner self, self-reflect and be curious about the world - they will swallow any bullshit, including that about the stae of the economy :)

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This is a very interesting post. I have so much to say but i don't want to clog up your comments! hahaha (looks like i did anyways)
There really is so much to unpack here that I am not sure where to start. Being from the Deep South here in the Bible Belt of the States we have a long history with religion. When anyone asked where i hailed from when i was in Sweden i usually told folks that i was TEXAN (the greatest country in the world imho hahaha) I did that for the exact reason you mentioned about the American stereotypes. They seemed to dislike America but love everything AmeriCAN to the point they mimicked much of the worst of what our culture had to export.

Being a Bible-believing follower of Jesus Christ is a far cry from what it is considered to be Christian in 'Christendom.' (i promise not to throw a lot of scripture at you!) Most of the organized religions and 'groups' of self-proclaimed Christians are loyal to the system or 'church body politic.' I don't like to paint the picture with too broad of a stroke, because there are good people in the mix all over, but it's hard not to. A believer's views, when truly practiced rightly, are centered on Jesus and the scriptures. Unfortunately, most of these divisions in the body of believers is contrived on purpose with an agenda of control. Many un and non-believing folks in the world have fairly accurate portrayals of the corruption and divisions among Christians even coming from an ignorant outsider's view. I don't mean the word ignorant there to be rude... but most believers don't even know what or why they believe... how could un/non believers? Of course, there are always exceptions.

The scripture tells us that we as believers in Jesus are part of the body and He is the head. Most of the organized Christian religions have their own head in direct opposition to what Jesus Himself tells us. I won't go too deep into it all since i know most of it wouldn't interest you (as best as i could tell from what you have shared about your beliefs) but as much as there is a value in tradition, ceremony, and history many of the practices are more sanctimonious pageantry than anything else. The confirmation, holy communion, and many other activities are more or less brought about by folks like the kind you mentioned and rightly pointed out ...

differentiators used to classify and segment and based on grouping, judgments are made.

It truly makes me sad that practices like these and experiences that Confirm Conflict do not represent the Truth but rather the vast numbers of groups within the divided billions. There are true believers in most pockets of these corrupt systems of control in dogmatic adherence to what is skewed from clear and plain Biblical teaching and principles. I feel sorry for the un and non-believers the most in that we are called to Love as Christ Loves and more often than not they will not find that in these megachurches or the mainline organized churches. On the other hand, my heart breaks for all those that have blind faith in that they are unaware that anything is even wrong in their practice of what the scriptures tell us. Most don't know the scriptures and put their trust, wrongfully in fallible people misrepresenting. I see a lot of this as a spiritual microcosm to most of the world's macrocosmic truths that you accentuated already.

True Christianity (or Truly following Jesus) is so much the opposite really of what most people are fed that it is... even from their own mother church's teat. I want to say more but i feel it would be potentially unwarranted and just me going on a diatribe. Btw... i looked up the word heathen from the Old Testament Hebrew and New Testament Greek and was pretty shocked to find that it mostly meant people groups, nationalities, and the English word gentile is interchangeable in the Greek. Gentile is just a non-Jew or non-Hebrew. It wasn't used in a derogatory manner in the fashion it most commonly is. That's another misconception due to pop-culture and bad church experience or the Latinization of proto-Germanic and Old English etymologies being extremely biased in the contextual applications during the Dark Ages. ETHNOS is the Greek root that we get the English word Heathen and Ethnic from. It tripped me out considering all that you wrote in the post and how it aligned with my word study on that.

Did i overshare?

They seemed to dislike America but love everything AmeriCAN to the point they mimicked much of the worst of what our culture had to export.

It is the same in Finland - mock America for the foolery - like to claim to be "the most American" :D

Unfortunately, most of these divisions in the body of believers is contrived on purpose with an agenda of control.

Organized religion is all based on control - even if in some instances it is to control for better behavior. The scriptures are just that too, an authority saying "this is right" and there is no issue in that, like a YouTube diy, but uninvestigated and blindly followed, everything can be harmful.

but most believers don't even know what or why they believe... how could un/non believers? Of course, there are always exceptions.

It depends on the path of the non-believer, doesn't it? Often the assumption is that a non-believer was raised so, when in most instances, they have chosen to relearn what has been conditioned from birth. Religion is rarely opt-in and even when those who switch religions make that choice, they are still conditioned to believe first. For many atheists, it is an opt-in choice through thought and experience.

but as much as there is a value in tradition, ceremony, and history many of the practices are more sanctimonious pageantry than anything else.

Tradition serves a purpose, until it doesn't. The problem is holding onto traditions that have lost purpose, something that a lot of religious traditions do - including their views about humans, even though the knowledge of the world has changed. Most of these traditional views have been created to segment for profit and fear of losing control and they have endured for thousands of years - replicated and taught over and over, and then people wonder why there is so much conflict.

One day when i come back to Scandanavia maybe we could get together at some point and have Fika. It's hard to explain in a text thread without writing a novel like i do everytime. I have always appreciated your perspectives when it comes to spirituality, morals, and values. You sprinkle it in on occasion. I read most of the comments here and could ascertain more context from everyone's discussions. You mentioned below about the concept of being punished for being a non-believer even though being a good person as the parameter of not wanting to serve a God like that if it were to be the case. I can totally understand that point of view because i wrestled with that exact conflict of interests.

I think the difficult part is to define what good is. As you pointed out, there is always an authority to bring about the desired behavior said authority requires. The spiritual model goes south when a relative morality is decided on an individual level. What is moral and good in one culture or (i use the term loosely) religious view can be vastly different.

The scripture tells us that God is Love. In fact, the scripture points out that Love is one of the qualities exhibited by true believers. Unconditional Love at that. Love the Lord your God, Love your neighbor AS yourself (golden rule) and Love your enemy even. This is really quite radical and fosters better behavior overall because it puts the self behind the cause of embodying the qualities that the world lacks for the most part. This instruction is not for overcontrol and domineering authoritarian mandates but with the greater good of everyone in mind... believer and nonbeliever alike.

I have become in a position of spiritual leadership of sorts to a fairly large group of people scattered all over the world. I have always said that I have one hand out to the un and nonbelievers and one hand out to the fellow believers and have an open invitation to walk together in Truth and Love. It has been difficult to counsel and minister peace in people's lives but the best reward is being able to be used by God to serve others. I don't really look for my own benefit or reward beyond being happy to serve anyone that will allow me to.

I don't think we often know when God is at work behind the scenes manifesting in our daily lives and happenings. Faith is the more interesting aspect most folks seem to reject or struggle over the possibilities for seeking facts or proofs instead. I tend to take the Bruce Lee approach to the philosophy behind my faith cutting away the classical mess if it's not the purest form of what Jesus indicates in the scripture. There are many hard scriptures that seem counter-intuitive to what we all believe about how God should be. Every time i thought i found a contradiction that was a deal breaker i dug deeper in studying to find the Truth of the application and it truly brought more understanding building faith rather than tearing it down as i often hoped it would.

I didn't blockquote here but i did reference many of the things you expressed and tried to speak in brief as best i could to address a lot of it, not that you asked me to. It's always touchy talking about these topics because there is usually all the elements you mentioned that it took for each individual to get on the path they are on at this moment in time. I don't have all the answers but i have spent a lifetime seeking them and i wasn't conditioned in the church as a kid. I was fortunate to always have the choice to choose my own way through thought and experience and opt-in myself as you mentioned about atheists.

I will finish with a scripture since i promised not to throw a bunch around. Jesus at one point is being asked which of the commandments of God was the most important one. Jesus replied...

and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, you shall love your neighbour as yourself. There is none other commandment greater than these. - Mark 12:29-31

If this was properly allocated and optimized we wouldn't see much of the ills that have been wrought by 'religion.' This is really a personal journey that spreads Love as the vector from inside to out and back again. I will stop now because i know you are a busy dude and very generous with your time and attention. Thank you for being a good dude without doing it for some afterlife golden ticket. I respect that come Hell or High-Water you have that code of honor within yourself to do right as you see it in accordance with leaving a legacy or vanishing into nothing having done your best to live a good life. That my friend is one of those two principles mentioned by Jesus. I wish more believers could at least follow your example in embodying Christ in that fashion. Love you bro! Hope you have a great week.

The spiritual model goes south when a relative morality is decided on an individual level.

But, it is all "user defined" as while you (probably) believe the word of God/Jesus, I see it as words crafted/twisted to control. It isn't that it is all bad, but it also isn't all good and one rule in one hand will get a different outcome than the same in another.

Unconditional Love at that.

And then there is this: God loves unconditionally, but punishes for not meeting its conditions.

I tend to take the Bruce Lee approach to the philosophy behind my faith cutting away the classical mess if it's not the purest form of what Jesus indicates in the scripture.

A student of Jiddu Krishnamurthi's thoughts, I think :)

It's always touchy talking about these topics because there is usually all the elements you mentioned that it took for each individual to get on the path they are on at this moment in time.

I think that it is always taboo to talk about things that effect us - don't talk about politics, religion, money--- what do people go to war over again?

I don't have all the answers but i have spent a lifetime seeking them and i wasn't conditioned in the church as a kid.

My dad minored in theology - and wasn't a Christian :D

If there was a God and I met it and was able to ask a question, I would ask "How does it know it is the only God, and not inside a larger system than itself, controlled by a greater God? But I am an ass ;)

I like the chats, but I don't always have time to answer as thoroughly as you - so hopefully you are content with what I present :)

Have a great week!

Yes, i appreciate your time that you allocate to engaging EVERYONE! So, i feel you on not being able to answer as thoroughly as one would like. In getting my feet wet I mostly engage here so far... but i am branching out. I just know it's always fun sharing and discussing with you man. I would continue to further this conversation but i know there so many posts and comments... so little time. I have perspective to share on your positions as far as 'IT' is concerned. It would be interesting to have a realtime discussion at some point in the future, time permitted of course. Sorry i always write a book even on my quick response. I find that more can be accomplished verbally in my case. I am sure we could go back and forth in writing and verbally on these topics, religion and spirituality in particular, for days! I do totally agree though that not talking about these issues (money, religion, & politics) has helped form the apathy and the radicalism in that there hasn't been any ground to discuss in the middle. The divide has only grown wider, unfortunately. Take care Taraz! and yes I will be content, for now! hahaha

Hopefully at some point you will get back to Sweden and then we can do a meetup. I reckon that it would be an interesting conversation - but as you might suspect, I argue and I am more than happy to play advocate for the devil :)

The conversation through words is great here and I am very lucky to get the engagement I do with so many great people. I appreciate the time and effort people put in and am grateful for the investment into the discussions.

Enjoy your evening.

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My wife decided to become Catholic last year. She just had to do Baptism as an adult, but it involved going to Sunday school for 60 hours or so. I went to a Catholic Elementary and Highschool (really common and publically funded in Canada), we had confirmation in grade 8, but I skipped it. Technically we have been allowed to eat the cracker since some ceremony we had in grade 1 called 'first communion'. I skipped that too but I've had the cracker a few times anyway. I also skipped something called the first confession and have never done one of those.

However, one thing I've always been clear on is trying to respect people and their faiths. Much of it is confusing for me (spirits and souls and faiths - how they believe, not what they believe). I understand some people may not be confused and this is confusing.

One thing that pissed me off the most was a lot of people were bragging about the gifts they got for doing their holy sacraments for the first time (I only did baptism as a baby). They don't really believe it but want to make their family happy which is okay, but then to go on and brag about the money they got is just odd. It reminds me of selling indulgent and whatnot. No, your 6-year-old kid has not accepted Jesus as the true lord and saviour, they accepted those gold trinkets and that cash and want to keep you happy.


Labelling people and small slights which are probably unintentional and just a little insensitive is called microaggressions. If I pay attention, I can experience them several times a week while living in Korea as an obvious-looking foreigner. "When do you plan on going back?" is probably the most common one. Yup it will come from people who know I've been here over a decade, have a good job, and am married to a Korea.

Once I had a lady ask me if we allowed black people in Canada (she said much worse stuff along those lines). That more general racism is much rarer. I've actually had a couple of people be outright racist towards me. It's very rare and usually, they are highly intoxicated so it's easy to brush off. It only happened to me once where I felt awful, and it was the reactions of the guy's sober peers. The boss being belligerent while wasted at an after-work party and his sober underlings were defending him with apologetics that was quite insulting to me and Korean culture in general (please understand this is normal - um okay, I've seen it once in 15 years).

I went to a Catholic Elementary and Highschool (really common and publically funded in Canada), we had confirmation in grade 8, but I skipped it.

It is common in Australia too, but they are generally "private" (subsidized though) schools. I went public all the way, some of my siblings did a mix.

I also skipped something called the first confession and have never done one of those.

Tell me your sins, and I will tell you how much you need to pay me for you to be saved.

Much of it is confusing for me (spirits and souls and faiths - how they believe, not what they believe)

Most don't think too much about it, but if they could put themselves as an alien looking in, they would find it strange. I think people want an authority, something outside themselves to work for - and they choose something that can't threaten their sense of right, the afterlife.

No, your 6-year-old kid has not accepted Jesus as the true lord and saviour, they accepted those gold trinkets and that cash and want to keep you happy.

Trusted to make a decision on a way of life that is meant to serve for eternity - can't be trusted to drink, drive or vote - or cross the road unaided.

Labelling people and small slights which are probably unintentional and just a little insensitive is called microaggressions.

People look for them everywhere, reasons for why they can't instead of just doing.

After all these years I have found one thing - adults are far inferior at insults than 5 year olds. :D

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Labeling is a superweapon though. The first step in any type of victimization starts with labeling and ends in genocide. It might look like two opposite ends of a broad spectrum but let me pop the bubble, they are not!

A bit off of topic here but, as a criminologist, I had to study a fair share of cases that included labeling and stereotyping that ended in dehumanization leading to violent crimes. A micro example would be rape cases where it is done so purely out of spite and showing off one groups superiority over others. And a macro example would be something like the genocide in Rwanda where Tutsis' and all of their masses were considered as "cockroaches". So yeah, there's that. And this article here is something we all should read and know by heart. At least then we will be able to understand how much subconscious act of microaggression we participate in EVERY SINGLE DAY.

We, ordinary humans, ever so slightly, without even realizing participate in acts that have causality far beyond our control. What's happening in America right now is one of the best examples of that. And our small act of breaking social norms has such a big butterfly effect that is not in a way contained in nominal levels.

How few truly confirm their beliefs?

Not many. Confirmation Bias is a century-old research project and something we ALL have done again and again throughout our life.

how many just assume they are in the right?

A little too many. Or we wouldn't have so many wars and conflicts now would we?

It might look like two opposite ends of a broad spectrum but let me pop the bubble, they are not!

I agree. Most don't actually follow the path, nor pay attention to the subtlety of the weapon in play -it is insidious.

We, ordinary humans, ever so slightly, without even realizing participate in acts that have causality far beyond our control. What's happening in America right now is one of the best examples of that.

Looking back it is obvious to many, looking forward, only those actually paying attention to all of the little strings of manipulation and influence being pulled this way and that, to slowly bring the ducks into a row.

As one said, the root of suffering is desire, and when we desire for our own group to be superior to that of another, conflict and violence is the only possible outcome. On a sports field it is rivalry in skill, between nations and religions, it is dominance over cultural behavior, oppression.

That article looks good, I have bookmarked it for later.

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Looking back it is obvious to many......

Aint that the truth. But most of us do not pay attention simply because, either we do not care or we are the ones manipulating. And so, many crimes, misdemeanors and deviant acts occur cause we choose nothing to do about it. Bystander Effect theory proves that.

As one said, the root of suffering is desire.....

That one person is hella wise.

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Dangerous grounds to walk on my friend, as even I have been attacked by my "own" for having vastly different views. Yes, I am one of the worst sinners, but I believe that there is a true Deity that paid for my sins. Do I force my beliefs on you or anyone else? NO.
This does not make me better that anyone else, believer or non believer.
Respect is the nominater!

When Papillon started to offer skills training to all I was called the son of satan. So the less said here the better.
I have no bitterness inside of me, but I refuse to be ordered around and to this day go my own way in my own beliefs, which has nothing to do with anyone else.

Labeling and character assasination is a great ploy by others to protect their own interests.
Ancient tribes were formed to protect themselves in numbers and the habit still exists today.
Nowadays we have just replaced the weapons with our tongues and ink.

No one is better than anyone else, as we are all the same for as long as we have breath!
Death is the leveller even if one has the fanciest funeral.

Attacked by one's own group is a division in the group - two groups. Each will claim piety over the other. It happens in all kinds of caste systems - a label is just that.

One can say, "I am a Christian", but are they the type that runs a charity or the type that performs genocide? The label itself is meaningless, the person matters.

It is hard to avoid boxing and labeling due to the way we are designed, but it is good to remember that nearly all labels we to describe a person are wrong to some degree.

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To say that you are a Christian and to be a Christain are two different things my friend. Humbleness for instance doesn't sit well with self importance. Apologies sounds like poison to many. I am not only talking about Christians here.
A very few can truly understand the concept of to hurt others in any way whatsover is to hurt the self.
Someone said that everything that we dislike in others is in fact whithin ourselves.

I agree with you that all labels are wanky, especially those with first impressions and history cleary reflects the erronous ways of mankinds love of false labels.

You had to endure a lot during your 40 years for various reasons not of your own making and for that I apologise, not sanctimonously but in truth.
But so did I and I don't see either of us lying down and pitying ourselves.
Instead it made us stronger, even with our own faults.
Between you and I, many, or a few hate us secretly for it.
Be that as it may, we should feel sorry for them!

To say that you are a Christian and to be a Christian are two different things my friend.

This is the same for all groups, which makes the labeling useless as every label is then split into "brands" with each claiming to be the best on the market. I would suggest that my own behavior is more "Christian" than many Christians, but that doesn't make me a Christian either, it makes me a relatively decent human - but decency isn't the default of any religion - it is agnostic.

Someone said that everything that we dislike in others is in fact whithin ourselves.

The fastest way to learn about our issues is to see what we dislike in others - the fastest way to work out where we can improve, is to see what we admire in others.

I agree with you that all labels are wanky,

This made me laugh :)

But so did I and I don't see either of us lying down and pitying ourselves.

Definitely not, the past leads to the present, but is no excuse for behavior.

Between you and I, many, or a few hate us secretly for it.

People apply the mystical when they don't understand and when they themselves are victims, they think the survivors have been endowed with a special power.

Be that as it may, we should feel sorry for them!

But not dwell on them - help where help is needed and welcomed, before needed and shunned.

Some sharp answers here and I can hear that you have been around the block my friend.
In fact, around a few blocks.
Creativity is the name of the game and critical opinions only adds fuel to the fire, unless of course if it's constructive critisism.

Hope that the coming week will treat you guys well!

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Religion is good. Church is evil.

While generalization and stereotyping can be handy in many ways,

And it is, it takes an immense processing load from the brain and we only have to be smart enough to make adjustments in each individual case. We would be spending way too much energy while trying to know person from 0.

Stereotypes give guidelines. But many people are simply too dumb to understand that and they take stereotype as the final verdict. They are simply too lazy or incapable to process information and think.

Religion is good. Church is evil.

Parts of it, the community, the drive to help others - if it is explored and not swallowed.

I have no issues with the process of stereotyping until it gets applied at an individual level when there is no risk in finding out a little bit more.

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This used to be me .. a lot of people still practice this generalized judging.. Some people would actually go ahead to carry such behaviours when trying to choose a spouse .

I have actually learnt that most times the stereotypes are false. However bad news travel faster.

Stereotypes are just that, best to get to know the person.