You make it sound like Hivewatchers are actually multiple persons. It's not. The operation is mostly run by @logic. It's a one-man shop.
@Guiltyparties is your peripheral "head" in charge of an operation he has no business or time to attend to. After all, he spends more time dealing with other projects on Hive.
The third and mysterious @nuttin is just someone collecting all the payments and interests off of HBD. Who knows if that's an actual active member in the community or some red herring used to pay Logic some more.
I bet if anyone ran a cost-benefit analysis, the so-called "abuse" they curb is much less than the money the community is paying. Unfortunately, large stakeholders such as @blocktrades, @theycallmedan, and @smooth don't think there are any viable alternatives. I argue HW isn't needed at all.
That sort of organization doesn't scale. It's much better to develop tools and allow individual communities and their mods/curators to collaborate and figure out ways to mitigate things within their own boundaries and in their own terms. It's insanity to expect Hivewatchers to be judge, jury, and executioner for every community across the chain.
The accounts Hivewatchers now operate can and will eventually be decommissioned and used by Logic as personal accounts, as seen by the activities of @steemcleaners, courtesy of GuiltyParties, which he uses against opinions differ from his narrow world view. In fact, it's not unusual @adm is abused in such manner as well.
If you feel so bad for Logic, just donate money to him. Stop this charade of giving him undeserved authority to dictate what others can do on this chain.
I have voiced my discontent about them in the past only to be booted out of the chat channels by GuiltyConscious himself. He even tried to brand me as some anti-Hive element, but couldn't muster the so-called "evidence".
To echo @pfunk's sentiments about HW, it's time to consider firing them.
Everyone should unvote @abit and @guiltyparties as witnesses as well as the Hivewatchers proposal.
The keys to @adm needs to be changed to make sure HW operators no longer possess them. They don't deserve to operate like this on the community's dimes.
I would agree with this if communities were providing their own reward funds, but since the reward funds all come from the commons of Hive stakeholders, Hive stakeholders have an unavoidable interest in how rewards are paid or not paid.
I'd be all for revamping how rewards work. For example, reallocate all of the common funds to DHF, and individual communities can then make proposals for their own reward funds, which they manage as they see fit. I don't think the one common pool has ever worked very well.
(The above was not meant as a specific proposal, which would require much greater attention and detail, it was a quick idea off the top of my head how the common reward pool which has not added much value and has always been very contentious could be restructured. There are probably better ways.)
We have had small curator-friendly tools developed at little to no cost.
The point is to enable the assigned curators to do what the curation initiatives or delegators expected them to do.
As for more sophisticated tools, I'm sure the stakeholders can fund the development of better algorithms through the DHF to detect certain abuses. There could be multiple people who hang out in the Hive Discord or whatever to scrutinize the feeds, etc. in the open.
The current system is broken. It's like letting the Demiurge pretend he's the Creator God of the universe.
As for rewards, yes, I do agree that some revamp needs to happen. This common pool is cursed.
That's a great idea, but will it increase decentralization and what are the attack vectors?
Host server, I suppose. The bot's database is separate for each server it serves in.
I see, that seems to be rather a feature.
Is this relate to above post?
You speak the true true.
Not even sure firing is the right term, more of a shift of responsibility towards tending to a well trained algo rather than being the deciding factor.
But yeah, preach the good word captain!
You are much nicer than me.
Understanding, not nice.
I'm an asshole, but also look at things objectively. :P
I'm looking at this after having burned down massive amounts of hours of infighting surrounding this topic. But I've been buying deeper into the Neoxian Tribe for months by now and it seems I was on to something.
These fights started to follow me into my dreams, and that's why I lay low a little bit right now.
Shoutout to you klye, hope you're doing well! cheers
EXACTLY! Each community has the ability to mute/ban users who are misbehaving in their community.
Leonis, downvoted to disagree with rewards. I am sure you are cool with it.
Nuttin is an individual, who is not logic and not you and not me. I am sure you understand people can prefer to stay anonymous. Including you. If you know who freedom is please do let me know.
HW is supported by a DHF. If you or anyone do not like they don't have to vote for it. I don't think you vote for it. So that's that. It's a public process and stakeholders voted for it, including me. I find value in their services. I exercise my choice as a stakeholder. You do the same.
Regarding an alternative sure it's possible. Being better at customer service is possible. If you feel you personally can do a better job at cheaper cost, please write a proposal and stakeholders will evaluate it.
Otherwise I don't think there is anything more to discuss
Nuttin is only an individual by claim. You could be paying the same person twice. Lol
If you aren’t here to discuss, leave the conversation.
You aren’t here to hold people accountable and improve. You are just here to make sure things stay the same.
No. If you can trust me. I know the individual personally.
Please let me know if you are satisfied
With an account number of 499 you can bet it was one of the earliest adopters.
I'm still waiting for a couple of them to pop out of the exchanges, 'Surprise! I have 30% of the coins! I've been hiding that in exchanges and sock puppets.'
Until we cross the hump of the earliest adopters selling, anybody buying in is simply providing exit liquidity to somebody that isn't selling his principle, only the gains.
IF they left the pool to the daily users it would be different, but as long as they maintain their death grip on power, we are pissing into the wind, imo.
Doesn't change the facts of the tech, just makes it that much harder to come into our own where the actual community controls things rather than this shadow gov't we don't get to know who it is.
Just to be clear with one thing: I will and never have used any account that has 'steem' as part of it's name. I don't even write or say that word if I don't absolutely have to, such as now. That will never happen.
HW: It would be a great help if people could offer constructive feedback to HW on scope, particularly new scope, and not only when they either got caught for something or someone they like got caught for something.
You gifted it to Logic to abuse. End of story.
I've been writing the same things since you guys tried to renew your sham proposal.
You don't care at all. You are just here for damage control until you can go back to the status quo.
Hivewatchers can do whatever it wants, but if it's getting funds from the DHF then there needs to be some accountability in the way it runs. A proper "charter" and transparent processes would go a long way to avoiding conflict and misunderstandings. As you know, I've seen a few and they are nearly always ugly. We simply HAVE to get better at this.
My view is that HW has a role, but is currently over-reaching and is not geared up to scale at all. We need to come up with a framework for how HW is going to interact with communities and educate users rather than just default to using the ban-hammer and it's guilty-until-proven-innocent. HW is currently operating like a bit of a kangaroo court so it's no wonder there is growing backlash.
I think instead of people complaining, maybe some others could be hired or offer their precious time to help attend to the growing needs of rooting out the rotten pasta. Nobody wants to be the bad guy, despite some wearing really convincing masks. Of course, I see a lot of the bigger stakeholders that don't actually care about that and want their profits maintained (obvious by a few comments). So, doubt that will actually happen.
Moar voices, better consensus.