Untangled Knots 6.3 podcast out now, one of my favorite yet.
This post is a response to @nonsowrites recent post, HIVE: RACE AND LOCATION. I suggest you read his post before reading mine, it's really relevant, not only for Hive, but for any situation with people from different countries or backgrounds.
A lot of us think we are open-minded, and in most cases I think that people are doing their best to reduce their prejudices. I won't claim that racism doesn't exist here, I just think that most people don't look down on others because of their skin color or nationality.
But that doesn't mean there isn't a strong in-group/out-group mentality, and race and nationality can be contributing factors
In-group/out-group is not the same as racism, but if our in group is based on ideas or experience that are exclusive to certain cultures, we will sometimes naturally see one race or demographic greatly outnumbering another.
Most of the in-group/out-group mentality goes completely unchecked.
Naturally, we want to be around people who understand us. I don't think this is a bad thing, but it's extremely limiting, and it makes it very hard for people who come from "outside" and want to be a part of something.
We often don't realize how exclusive our in-groups are, because we all live in cultural bubbles, we don't fully understand the worlds that others live them, and often just assume that everyone wants and needs the same things we want and need.
Some of our bubbles have more resources and clout than others and...
The bubbles with clout tend to dominate the bubbles without.
That means, in general, the in-group will accept people regardless of race and nationality, BUT ONLY if they conform to the ideals of the in-group, which tends to be dominated by a certain kind of culture. This can be much harder for people from certain places and backgrounds.
Imagine the guy from India...
...who grew up eating with his hands. Now he is at a business conference in New York. How is everyone going to feel if he starts eating with his hands there? He knows he can't. In fact, even at the business conference in Mumbai, he will probably feel he has to eat with a fork and knife.
There is a kind of imbalance in most international communities, where Euro-centric (or more often American or British) customs and morality dominates. We can't go back and change history, nobody from these places needs to feel guilty about slavery or colonization, but we do need to be aware that it's shaped the world.
The world has been conforming to the West's ways for over a century. Western culture has contributed good things to the world as well, but it creates an unlevel playing field and also robs westerners of the ability to learn much of the great things that come from other cultures. (I believe this same pattern is also where a lot of the race-based issues have been kept alive in the USA, in addition to the poking and prodding of people in power who employ divide-and-conquer tactics to manipulate us).
Thanks to people like Alan Watts, J.D. Krishnamurti, and others who traveled the world and brought back culture before it was easy, the world has been introduced to certain ideas from Buddhism and Hinduism. We now have yoga and K-pop, everywhere, yes. But international norms have mostly been set by North America and Western Europe.
When you exist between different worlds and pop in and out of them as frequently as I do, you notice that bias and unfair stereotypes or an in-group/out-group dynamic can be really really strong even when people are trying not to have prejudice, and it's mostly a matter of people being stuck in their own comfort zones.
There are all kinds of prejudices everywhere, I don't want o pick on the west. But if Pakistan or Peru were the largest superpowers in the world, we would need to keep them in check too, even if they were doing a great job. We need to keep the dominant narratives in check no matter where they are based, and give a chance to others to influence the conversation.
We tend to think diversity is just about skin color, but what about diversity of cultural narratives and experience or styles of communication. In that way, people are generally expected to conform to the ways of powerful countries. It may be for the better sometimes...if one country has a custom to punch someone in the face when they meet them for the first time, we may decide together that we probably should ask this countries people not to practice this custom in international settings. If women are treated as second class citizens in a country, we may want to ask this custom to be set aside in an international setting.
But the point is, we can be more aware of the imbalance and decide the norms together with equal footing.
People are generally not interested in things that are outside of their own life, and Africa is not really in most peoples lives. Neither is South America. Neither is Eastern or Southern Europe or the Middle East. America, England, Korea, Japan, and to some extent China (more and more), France, Germany and a few others have managed to really plant themselves in peoples minds across the world. Some others like Sweden and Saudi Arabia have enough money where they manage to have some clout.
Currently influence is mostly gained through industry, although there is definitely the echo's of ugly histories, wars, racism and manipulation. At the same time, you are also at a disadvantage when your worldview doesn't match the people around you, even if you come from a culture that has more power in the world. In any community you are at a disadvantage when your values don't match the popular values in the community.
I have found that when my values and worldview, and even my interests don't align with the people around me, it's generally very hard to have power in that group.
This happens to me often, as I am a big fan of nuance and flexibility, and many people are not.
The only solution to being on the outside (if you want to have any influence on things) is to slowly find allies within the group and through them, blend cultures and influence each other, which slowly shifts power to be more balanced.
It's funny though, I've had a much easier time blending with Africans and Asians than Americans and Europeans (A generalization of course, there are lots of Americans and Europeans I like too). It's probably because I didn't fit in well in my hometown, which was dominated by an idea that "Western ideals were liberating the world". I on the other hand, believed that everything had consciousness (the grass and even rocks), and was imagining scenarios like the Matrix or Truman Show before these movies were released (Things have changed, these ideas are much more acceptable now, thanks to these films and the internet...)
My imagination was not welcome by those around me and put me on the outside, and so I slowly started to find myself curious about other cultures who were also on the outside. For 10 years I even hated the culture I grew up in, although now I really appreciate certain aspects of it.
People everywhere tend to be more inviting of those who can share certain cultural references and values, or political leanings or spiritual beliefs. It's hard for me to connect with Americans still because my cultural references, politics and spirituality is such a crazy mix of North South East and West, underground, mainstream and everywthing in between... and so I am still on the outside.
I try to get around this by just being as awesome as I can be and taking the initiative to influence the culture in whatever ways I can, not forcefully, but through meaningful relationships. This isn't done in a scheming kind of way, it's done cause I genuinely do not like in-group/out-group mentality. I have caught myself falling into it many times since then, because it's a really easy trap to fall into.
The in-group/out-group mentality is understandable, and it's even healthy to find people who we relate to, but it's also really important to keep trying to expand our worlds. If we want to improve anything we need to work to dissolve these kinds of biases, even knowing that they are inevitable. At least we can chip away at them and improve things, even if utopia is impossible.
I've said it many times before, but perhaps not so directly. The reason I got so interested in Hive Naija is that I previously thought there were almost no people in Africa with cell phones. My own stereotype. I didn't expect Nigerians would be able to relate to me and find a common language to speak with (I'm not talking about LANGUAGE, but culture really). We did though, and it was way way way easier than I expected.
I'm not really a typical American though and I spent a few years in a country much more similar to Nigeria than America. This is why it's important to expand your world, and really get into other cultures when you have a chance to. It really does broaden your perspective and improve your ability to relate with people.
A lot of people who come from rich, powerful or influential countries don't really make the effort to see things the way another culture does, especially not a culture which they don't have a strong connection to. Since America and Europe had the most money and resources (gained through both innovation and by force), their cultural narratives have colonized the world in a way. That's not to say they are bad or that they don't have a lot to offer, but it's really one sided sometimes.
I think it's the responsibility of every person, no matter where they are from, to try and step out of their comfort zones. Even if it's within their own country. If you are a tech-bro, try hanging out with a group of truck drivers. If you volunteer with the homeless, try speaking to them as equals instead of lost souls who need your help. If you are political one sided, try spending time with the other side and keeping your mouth shut long enough to gain each others trust, then be gentle in sharing your opinions.
This is how we become true adults and it's also how we heal the world.
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I like the African continent. My ex-labmate is from Ethiopia. Extremely funny and honest person! Ethiopian and Morrocan food is gaining worldwide attention. When nobody sent him back to his dormitory, I did. When nobody borrowed him a graduation robe, I did. Morrocan people in France are very hospitable and friendly. They helped me when my request got ignored by others. One of my favorite authors, Muriel Barbery, is a French Morrocan.
@selfhelp4trolls The world is big with differrent kinds of people sometimes we cant blame them for what they believe in.Nobodys perfect in this world i just let them be whats their perspective in life because we can't please everybody.Sometimes its hard to deal with someone who is one sided way of thinking anyway
Thanks for sharing ur thoughts have a nice weekend my friend🙂🙂
Youve been really in-depth!...on a normal day I wouldn't have read something this long at an odd hour like this..it's 1:49am in the morning over here..but you caught my attention right from the start...nd I read nonsos post for clarity.
I get where he's coming from. My friend and I had a conversation and he was a little heartbroken, apparently he'd put in so much work into making posts this week and he hardly got upvotes, he got annoyed and said something, Hive is biased and I think I made a post regarding that issue...and I tried to explain things to him..at first it might seem like you're not getting that attention because you come from a country of less power and popularity..it surely might seem that way...I get to see spanish posts being curated by appreciator a lot...and some bangladesh posts curated by bdvoter.. it used to get annoying until I noticed that some of my Nigerian friends are also getting votes from this two curators too...the realization dawned on me...hive is like real life... everything works with building connection...and like you said difference in culture is a barrier but then there's no way any one can dispute how good you are when the evidence is clear...they might not upvote you like you deserve but then the fact that they even actually upvote you means that they know you deserve it and as time goes by and a certain understanding begins to grow, then things would change...
But I don't think we can ever strike a balance in issues like this...we Africans would always feel inferior because of the things we've had to go through and because of our experiences..but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be friends with someone who's English, or French...if we both connect well then surely we'll share a lot..that's what I love about hive..I've made a lot of friends who are miles away and we've even shared a lot than even my own people ..and one thing I've noticed that'll surely always affect us is that we Africans most times like to compete against each other..we love to be better than the other person so they'll worship us (I'm just generalizing though, not all are like that)... I've noticed how some cultures who carry themselves together and they grow...I've seen that my fellow Nigerians are beginning to do this..nd it's great, if we grow together and build more connections then we'll all have more stake and with more stake comes more ability to affect change...
I don't know if I made any sense, but you'll pardon me, I wrote this with a sleepy eye...just couldn't resist the urge to comment..
I love how vast you've come in trying to understand cultures and trying to have a taste of how the outside feels like...not all would want to go this.
Sorry for the slow reply, I really wanted to reply to you in particular cause you left me two awesome comments in 3 days.
I want to see more people, as you say, carry themselves together, not only based on nationality or ethnicity, just based on the fact that we are humans. It's hard to do it across all borders because shitty resource distribution creates a massive cultural gap (which is one of the things I was indirectly talking about here) and most people all over the world are too busy trying to figure out how to survive to care about what happens elsewhere.
I guess where I'm different is that people are one of my biggest passions and I would like one of the main focuses of my life to help them understand each other better. It's tricky cause I can't force them and sometimes I get drained because I also need to figure out how to make it sustainable.
As for hive...you can often find other reasons but I think people are not curious enough. From my perspective, Nigeria gets generous upvotes considering there aren’t any Naija whales, but it's kind of out of pity, or from curators who curate randomly.
I think there are probably more Nigerians here than any other country, some do great and some not so well. And it’s not always about quality but that goes for all of us.
I really hate the idea of supporting people out of pity. If I am giving it’s because someone has gained my respect or is authentic or original or I think they deserve more than they are getting. I don’t want to pity Africans even if they’ve had it hard, because pity doesn’t allow for equal relationships.
I know this is an awkward topic which is why I feel I need to express it, because if I don’t, most westerners will not. It has to do with the passion that I mentioned above.
We are kind of lucky at hive because nobody cares about any of us, at least those of us us who don’t have massive wallets or go trending often (I know my Hp is more than a lot of people here, but most larger accounts don’t care what I’m doing lol).
Anyways, I hope your friend stays with it and feels better about hive. It’s a strange grind but we can learn a lot from it
I have to admit that here on Hive, I've had a hard time relating with people from other counties and it shows in all I do here. Asides from you, I haven't had a proper conversation with anyone here who isn't Nigerian because I generally don't have an interest and I don't want to try to be different just so a person can understand me.
I find conversations with you to be easy because you've related enough with Nigerians so I know you can take a joke and I like the look on your face when I say something that sounds bizarre to you.
With other Americans or even Asians, I sense too much of a communication gap and it's not because they can't understand what I say or I can't understand what they say but because I just don't want to have to try too hard.
I really should though coz how else will I learn and grow if I don't.
I would love to talk about this next time. I'm glad you feel it's easy to talk to me :-D I feel the same way.
I think the thing that makes it really hard to connect sometimes is that "common sense" varies depending on who you talk to and people tend to find people who share the same common sense. Then they get confused when other people don't share the same common sense.
My common sense is pretty different from most established norms everywhere and so I'm always kind of on the outside, but then I realized that makes a path to connecting to anyone on the outside, regardless of where they are from.
Also, people can be overly sensitive and it complicates things, so it's always easier when you find someone who can laugh things off or not take things personally, but also not be shallow all the time. People will say ignorant shit too, regardless of where they are from or where you are from.
I met people who could not comprehend that I don't love hamburgers, they kept trying to take me to McDonalds and thought I was just being shy when I said I'd rather go to a local place. I've had people accuse me of trying to sleep with female friends because "That's what foreigners do". I've had people avoid talking to me just cause they think I don't speak the local language and they don't want to be bothered. (The first two were in other countries, the third happens constantly in Japan). I had to let all that stuff slide, although I make it clear that they are totally off.
What I realized is, 9/10 people I probably won't connect on so many things with, it doesn't matter where. And then the other 1/10 is going to be much easier to enjoy and connect with, so I just need to find that person. And also with the other 9/10, if you just find where their prejudices and overly sensitive points lie, you just avoid those topics, and they are pretty ok. Maybe there is 1/50 who is just overbearing and not worth any pleasantries.
I have a feeling that people are sensitive. Especially foreigners. I have conversations and it's like I'm walking on eggshells. I don't want to be offensive or get out of line and create an enemy I didn't bargain for. The best way to avoid that is to refrain from long conversations.
Initially, I tried walking on eggshells with you 🤣. I can't remember but you'd say some things and I'm like "oh cool, I can say be open about shit like that too, niceeee". I guess it's because you're just as curious.
I need more foreign friends though but I suck at making friends. If it isn't mutual from the start, I don't know how to force it.
I feel the same way with Americans! And not only Americans but especially Americans. It has to do with the dual cultures of left/right, black/white and city/country being toooooo divided and on guard of each other. And also because we spend half our education learning how to debate and create philosophical “arguments”. I guess I’m lucky that I could escape that by having so many international friends and being a loser and not interested in school when I was young.
There are always exceptions though. It’ll be easiest if you can find them! I’ll help wherever possible.
That’s funny you were walking on eggshells with me, but I can get really strong in sharing my opinions, I’m trying to drop that unless it’s going to be really really helpful in that moment.
!pizza
I hardly have opinions about a lot of things unless they involve conscience and certain values. Asides from those, I form my opinion about many other things from the opinions of others that resonate with my values.
I need more friends though. Feel free to introduce me to someone who wouldn't mind having long conversations every once now and then. Not too often though coz I always have so much work to be done.
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Thank you for the mention (and sorry it took this long to respond to this piece. I read it but wanted to leave a detailed response but forgot).
You made a lot of valid point and most of it resonate with me. The thing about culture and having to learn from other cultures, very valid. Every society is unique and people interact and experience life differently and we have this amazing technology called the internet that allows us access and interact with people like we have never before. It has cleared some misconceptions about certain groups and race.
Also, I will say in regards to in-groups, there are alot of factors that contribute to people coming together and bonding and one of those things is race/ethnicity/nationality. For instance, if I am in a new country I am most likely going to bond with people who look like me, who at least have some similarities with me. And with that comes some form of consciousness or approach to other groups. For instance, I have been had discussions with people who feel like strangers here even after investing so much of their time, mainly because they don't look a certain type of way.
Nevertheless hive in its way exposes us to a bigger community and diverse cultures, which is a huge opportunity to learn. Although many of us still have our bias towards certain groups, which is going to take more than a few posts to unlearn, I will say this is a safer space for many (like myself)
P.s pardon any typos