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RE: Hive Exchange Listings and Communication/PR Proposal

in #hive7 months ago (edited)

So youre asking for 30k USD? lol

I thought Netuoso asking for 150 HBD a day was excessive and potentially wasteful, but this... a retroactive proposal for being part of a team of people that helped push this forward is beyond excessive. (To put it nicely)
50 HBD a day, sure. 500? No, HELL no.

If this passes i really fear how the fund will be spent in the future.

I had almost 500k impressions on twitter during the takeover. I contacted directly a few big crypto youtubers ("contacts") that picked up my tweets and story.
How much do you think i should ask for?
Guys... @theycallmedan, @blocktrades... should i get 10 HBD a day for my work? I think thats fair, 15 HBD maybe, 150 HBD?

How bout the 100 others that did the same thing? How bout all the witnesses, community members that spread the word?
Should we just spread the fund equally among the community?

The point is... Not a single thing, not a single listing, would be possible, no matter the "contacts" (youre not a crypto veteran) or emails anyone sent if the community didnt step up.

For that reason, singling yourself out as someone deserving 30k USD is just wow. Sry.


You’re not asking many questions so I not sure where to start, but this proposal is not about twitter, it’s about major news coverage and exchange listings. This involves dealing with corporate and legal matters, not just tweeting about a story already being covered in major news orgs.

Also, do you know who was on this team that pushed things forward? Do you know which people played what roles?

The amount is based on standards in the space, I wasn’t sure how to come up with it tbh. But this proposal reflects about 400hrs of work as well as 2mths going forward (so roughly about 700hrs total) and includes major listings- free listings, with more to come, which would have cost at least $150k from the DHF. The “team” working on this will gladly tell you my role in that (some already did here). I think the “team” is quite smaller than people imagine, and I’m simply stating my part in it.

As far as the amounts of proposals for core blockchain development, you clearly don’t actually understand the level of skill and work. Do you know how many C++ devs are even in the crypto space? Do you know how much Steemit inc was paying its team members? Do you have absolutely anything to compare the amounts to other than to say you just think it’s too high?

I appreciate the feedback and yes this is a short term proposal with a high daily, the amount is simply based off of hours worked and going rate in the space for the work I did. As well as the amount saved for stakeholders. It was a difficult number to come up with and I will completely understand if it’s not carried out.

Either way, I won’t be accepting rewards on Hive anymore and will finish what I started, and have committed to the next 2mths of working towards the goals mentioned. Thanks.

I think ill write a quick post on this. This is starting to get out of hand.

Your proposal is insanity. Im sorry.
It will probably pass because youre popular but god help us all if this becomes the standard.

Your hourly estimates dont mean nothing, first of all because i do not trust them, secondly youre asking for 30k USD for work done by thousands of people.
Singling yourself out as a defining factor in the success of HIVE is extremely self centered.

Secondly pandering towards devs is cheap. I know a few devs in the crypto space and i know a few that worked in the crypto space. Usually its people tryign to build up portfolios like the folks i know did with Peercoin and early Ethereum.
I actually talked to one of my guys and these rates are insanely high. Id get him to work on HIVE if there was a sliver of a chance i thought he could get funding.

You went for 30k. You could have gone for 50k, even 100k and you would have the same chance of getting it.

There is no voice of reason here anymore ever since the community stood together for the takeover. How much should Dan get for the AMAs? The interviews? All the shit he did.

If his investment going up should be good enough for him for helping us all out then so should yours be for you.

Who set up the AMAs and the interviews? What were those based on?

And I’m sorry, I can agree with you that the amount seems high and understand your conclusion of that, but not on me trying to take credit for things thousands of things or you trying to make it personal.

My work is my work, and what I described in the post was my work.

As far as dev work, there is a difference between a “dev” and a C++ dev. It sounds like you’re not very familiar with that aspect, or again, what Steemit paid individuals to do the work.. and not have the same results.

I just feel like you’re making a lot of general assumptions without actually knowing the facts, so I’m not sure how to help further a discussion or take the feedback.

I will say that thinking people should work their ass of for the community for the same return (price go up) as those who don’t contribute in the slightest is naive and short sighted. Why would anyone contribute if they can just... not.. and simply post daily and take from the rewards pool? Who will code the core aspects? Who will do the work needed that got us here in the first place?

So please criticize my proposal here all you want, that’s absolutely fair, but “You guys should just help us out for free” is not really a logical stance for the amount of work a few contributed. Sure making some tweets or doing one interview can be rewarded through a post about it etc, but the work we are discussing is a bit different than that. Especially the core coding, I think you really need to reconsider your stance on that aspect tbh.

Youre asking for 30k based on a result that you did not achieve.
You were a small part in a big story and youre throwing out insane numbers at the community.

Then tell me who did what and who was responsible for what results.

Again, you are making assumptions. I understand the concern of the number, but I don’t appreciate you implying I’m taking advantage.

The proposal reflects a wage of about $40/hr
(Including past and future work). This work involves one on one conversations and negotiations with major corporations as well as dealing with legal matters. This requires vast knowledge of the platform, it’s background and understanding of the exchange and the crypto space. I’m just saying it’s a skilled job and therefore is reflected in the rate. This takes a skill I was able to provide, that others were failing at.

If you feel this all could have been done by simply tweeting when JS took over, fair enough. I personally disagree and think many who saw the work put in can attest to that.

There are others who worked their ass of too, absolutely.. but I am not claiming any of their contributions in this post. The above are my contributions, what I did. If you don’t agree with it, absolutely understandable. But if you think this could have been accomplished by just a few people tweeting, you are vastly unaware of this space or the events that occurred over the last few months.

I look forward to your post, I’m just it will be clear and cohesive without any vast general statements, accusations, or personal attacks.. as usual.

I’m just saying it’s a skilled job and therefore is reflected in the rate. This takes a skill I was able to provide, that others were failing at.

I completely agree to this. An effective PR is just as important as developing stuff. Thanks for your work, lele. <3

Singling yourself out as a defining factor in the success of HIVE is extremely self centered.

In which part did she say that? She is repeatedly saying that rate is for HER contributions in the past 60 days and what she would be doing in the next 2 months as well. That is fair in my opinion.

I actually talked to one of my guys and these rates are insanely high. Id get him to work on HIVE if there was a sliver of a chance i thought he could get funding.

Then maybe tell him to propose?

It's true that there were many others who contributed by Tweeting, spreading the word, etc as well and I am really grateful that the community rallied. But let's be honest here, without her contributions, it will take us a long time to move forward. Like I said below, an effective PR is just as important as developing something.

Look around you, the community has seen what she has done. She's not saying it was because of her that Hive is where it is now. Everyone did their part, and this is hers. If you think you need to be compensated, feel free to propose.

Hello @justineh! I am greatly appreciating your efforts, but I do not agree with they way of compensation. Where I am from it is pretty much unheard of to do work without any form of contract and ask for payment later. The problem for me is that there can be no form of control of the work process. I understand however, there was not much time to make up something during the takeover situation and you just stepped up. I do want you to receive a fair compensation, but I do not think it's a good idea for the proposal system to be used to reward work of the past. This will create a tough precedent that can lead us back to 2016.
To compromise, I would support this proposal if you adjust the back payment for previous work to a lower level en set up some goals, planning and/or measurable indicators for your future work. Perhaps you can split your projected compensation into a fixed part and a variable part based on your achievements.
This way the community has some framework for judging your efforts, as I hope you will continue your work for more than those 60 days!

I have to agree with this.
Without the massive community involvement and every single effort, all these listings and coindesk/cointelegraph articles might not be there, or at least might not be this effective.

The amount asked in this proposal is not in proportion imo.

The first CoinDesk article happened after the initial soft fork, before any "massive community tweeting" took place. So I understand your concern and am not taking away from community involvement, but what I am discussing is much different than that. Perhaps look at articles and timelines, as I don't think many are remembering the timeline of events very well. The initial CoinDesk article broke the story to the space, there was no story before and there was no attention on "tweets". Getting the story covered was important for the community effort to have any effect, which was the point.

So while I again am not trying to downplay the community's role on getting the word out, I'm somewhat confused by this constant comparison... the actions are very different.

Only the article appearance is also not a big deal if the community wouldn't comment, re-tweet and share with lots and lots of people.

You are missing the whole point here. Nobody is trying to downplay you, but lots of people have spent days & nights to spread the word. The whole thing was a community effort.

Of course if you played a critical role with the articles, listings etc. you have the right to ask for a compensation. But the amount you are asking here is huge and out of proportion. At least, that's what I think.

Also the way you build up your story with...

  • ask for compensation for those contributions through the DHF, rather than see my posts be over rewarded on Hive.
  • and amount saved in getting free exchange listings, versus the suggested 150k-300k that would have been spent from either stake holders, or the DHF

Actually I think what we are discussing is not much different. We are talking about the same thing.

Again, of course you're free to create a proposal to cover your hours. But if the asked amount was reasonable, I would also support this.

I'm sorry, but asking this huge amount afterwards also doesn't feel right to me. At some point, you could create a post or a proposal for future work. Now it feels like it is going to be "pushed" instead of "asking". Considering your connections, you probably will get this through though.

Actually I’m not missing the point, I am showcasing why what many are discussing about the community spreading the word and the work I did are very different. I’m not downplaying the community’s role, I’m simply explaining the differences in them.

As far as the rest, thanks for the feedback. My contributions are clear and were a large part in why our market cap increased significantly. If you don’t see the value in that or feel it should have been done differently, fair enough. I actually would prefer to “ask” for compensation after I have proven to be capable to achieve the goals both past and present, rather than some empty promises of what may or may not happen.

My proposal is me asking, consensus then decides. There is no “push” happening. Thanks.

Your contribution to articles and community with each individual effort all combined made this possible.

The comparisons about empty promises versus first delivering results dont make sense to me. I prefer agreements beforehand instead of a 30K bill afterwards.

I value your contribution and things you have done and still are doing. No question about that.

But the valuation of this proposal is not in proportion. There is a significant difference for me between;
“guys I will work fulltime, each day trying to contact exchangess, major news sites to spread the word about hive. Therefore I ask 45 usd/hr for x months.” Where the community knows what it’s up against and what it will cost versus your 30K proposal afterwards which came more or less as a surprise.

Still, thanks for all your efforts.

I do not think anyone that makes a contribution should be allow to post hoc ask for payment.

@xxxxxxxxxx, @netuoso. Please just let the criticism stay up there where it belongs. Only a small group of Hivers understands this proposal. It's not that bad to have a critical discussion about this. Decentralization goes both ways.