Hive is full of all kinds of personalities, backgrounds, skills, cultures, motivations, preferences and mental problems - and because of this, there are always going to be different kinds of arguments and conflicts between people. This is especially true when there is "money" involved and people believe they are entitled to getting paid for their content. But, without going into the conversation around downvotes, the fact of the blockchain is, until the HIVE has been transferred into a "private account" it is not owned.
It really is very simple.
There are many reasons to downvote but mostly they are reserved for what is considered "bad behavior" with an individual account deciding what constitutes this. Plagiarism and spam are generally accepted. But pretty much any reason could be, including a host of personal issues too.
But, there are all kinds of reasons that people disagree and over the years there has been a lot of different ways people have handled the disagreements. However, with all of the reasons that people might downvote an account, the most disgusting behavior on Hive and the internet in general is,
Doxxing.
It is absolutely disgusting.
The reason is that what it is doing is putting public information out there in the hope that others will attack in some way. It is like hiring an unknown hitman through an unknown network and giving them a target in the hope they will act, but the doxxer doesn't have to do any of the dirty work.
And this is common now online, where people have been incentivized to play the victim and will feel "victimized" by anything and even go out of their way to instigate a situation so that they can frame themselves as the victim, for publicity. It is pathetic and disgusting every time. But on Hive, it is nearly always the same kinds of people doing it, those who are not concerned about the wellbeing of people in general, all they worry about is what is not yet in their wallet. Over an argument for a few dollars, they will put someone's life and that of their family in potential danger, because someone made them feel bad or, broke their sense of expectation and entitlement.
It is akin to a child given a bad grade on a school paper and instead of studying harder, they say they teacher "touched them". It will ruin the career of an innocent person, but the child doesn't care, because they don't think that far ahead. But, the people on Hive generally aren't children, they are adults and therefore, are responsible for their actions.
This is part of the problem with the internet though these days, as the "woke" feel comfortable calling out the names of people from behind their screens because they feel invincible, as they are disconnected personally. It is mob mentality and they know that there aren't likely to be consequences, especially when there are a large number of people distributed across the globe.
But the question has to be asked,
What kind of human does this?
In my opinion, a disgusting one, but you might think something different. At the very least, it is someone who doesn't in fact care about others and who is willing to put others in harm's way, as long as they are able to push their agenda through, often because their feelings were hurt. Yet, they are also unwilling to do it personally, so what they do is task it out to the mob and, there are always people willing to fight over anything. It is cowardly behavior, looking to use the masses as a human shield and divert the responsibility their way if something does happen.
They are inciting violence from strangers, as there is no other reason to publish personal details (even if they are available with a search online) and link to other platforms. It is done in the hope that someone reading will do something with that information and with the amount of crazies out there in the world today looking for a cause, the likelihood one will, keeps climbing.
I wish that on Hive, despite all of our various disagreements (that nearly always center around money), people would act with some level of humanity and compassion. Argue all you want, but don't put people in physical or social danger on purpose. And that is what doxxing is all about, deliberately publishing someone's private details in a public forum in the hope that someone will use that information to inflict some kind of pain.
There is no other reason to do it.
And therefore, regardless of what happens past that publishing, one thing is guaranteed, no matter about what they create, or how nice they are to some people - the person who doxes others, has proven themselves a disgusting human.
That is my opinion and how I see them.
Yet, they may see themselves as a victim - Like always.
What do you think about doxxing?
Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]
Yes indeed. It is a cowardly way for someone to try and get something to happen to someone whilst absolving themselves from the responsibility of whatever happens because they were only putting stuff out there that was already known
It is telling that the people who cry so hard about being abused by downvotes and wail that people on the platform are toxic (that's right @ultravioletmag, I'm looking at you after last night's escapades) are indeed the most toxic on the platform because they will stoop to any lengths to safeguard their precious few dollars.
I wonder what these people are like in real life, but in my head at least, I suspect that they are pretty well self-obsessed, only connecting with people when there is something in it for them.
Notice how they mostly stem from the same groups - or perhaps they collect like that - birds of a feather style.
Users of people defo. What's in it for me, transactional type of friendships. Yum.
They do flock together. Glad I don't fly in those circles!
The trend I'm noticing is when someone has a bad day, the doomsday cultist types swoop in. They pretend to be there for them, offering a false sense of comradery, while contributing to the downward spiral. People meltdown while that flock encourages it, continuously stooping lower and lower while being cheered on. It eventually gets to the point where one has done irreversible damage to themselves (embarrassed themselves, hurt their reputation, burned bridges, some will even delete their entire existence flushing all that hard work down the toilet just to impress their enablers); poof, gone. Then the doomsday cultists go out looking for more prey and couldn't give two shits or a single fuck about the people they helped destroy.
Yep, I have seen that play out a ton of times. And it could be the case here as the ones she was running to with my details were all the fannies of doom that lurk about hive doing it down. She is a fucking dick. To put it mildly.
I just stumbled into this mess. Been kind of watching that group lately. Studying them and their tactics. One reblogged the post in question so I fell down the rabbit hole. Probably one of the biggest spin artists around so I wouldn't be shocked to see some of you guys get dragged though the mud with their next rendition of bullying/smear campaign. It's fucking eerie though. And I know you've seen it. Almost the same crowd been at it since 2016. I think if you added up the amount of people they've encouraged to self destruct over the years then eventually leave, that number would be high.
Absolutely. It wasn't even just in that post either it was sharing my details in comments all over blurt to all the mad folk there. I think that was what annoyed me.
You are very tight though, that bunch have been quitting since day dot and bad morning the page for just as long and it draws people into their circle who them end up taking the heat as they sell to impress or be part of the gang. It's almost a shame. Almost.
More of a fly on the wall.
Probably thankfully, I have no idea what you're referring to.
You would be thankful indeed! :0)
I have noticed the event, and it is handled with 'swift decisiveness'.
Let this be a lesson for anyone out there.
I have received many threat during my 4 years at hive. Some are violent and even related to my family. I believe most of these people are 'keyboard warrior', however, they should know some of us are not :)
Internet warriors, on their keyboards they ride... :0D
I have met the person you are talking about. She has got upset about downvotes before when votes from a certain troll were cancelled out. She refused to try and understand the reasoning behind this. I get that some take downvotes more personally, but it is a core part of Hive and nobody is automatically entitled to rewards. She has done pretty well anyway. I suspect she looked at 'the other place' and Blurt, but probably won't make as much on those and so is still on Hive, despite complaining, at length, about how toxic it is.
There is still no excuse for 'doxing'. People can choose to be at least semi-anonymous on Hive even if it is not too hard to track them down. I see she edited some comments, but the blockchain does not forget.
Attacking the community is not going to do her any good. Downvotes do not have to be justified and those who are pissed off may feel like using them.
I would still not try to drive someone away from Hive unless they are actually abusing it and will not stop. It remains to be seen what her future can be here.
Wow, I didn't know this was a thing on Hive! On Medium (a community I've been with longer so I'm more familiar with how it works), I'll often see "takedowns" where one writer will call out another writer by name and sometimes write an entire article dissing that writer. Though typically, most people see through this as petty and childish on behalf of the writer doing the "takedown," and those joining in the "takedown" are the types who take pleasure in drama. In most cases, I think this actually helps the writer who is the subject of the takedown. After all, bad publicity is still publicity, right?
In general it is the same here, but it depends on how the person reacts. For example, this person doxxed someone because they were downvoting them, whining and crying on other platforms too about it. No dignity. Other people just get on about their day and do what they do regardless of the downvotes - they generally come out of things well.
We all get to choose how we react, unless we have no self-control over our actions - so that would beg the question, Who's actions are they?
I don't mind a good argument, but tantrums from adults are repulsive.
Absolutely!
Nobody believes they themselves are the bad guys. No evil dictator is found sitting in an evil throne stroking a white cat, cackling madly as he launches an all out attack on the pure of heart.
Even Mao himself found a way to justify his actions:
Turning humans into statistics like this is one very easy way for an individual to disregard the wellbeing of others.
Humans easily dehumanize. The woke do it by creating 'communities' rather than individuals. The 'lgbt community' is an idea, not a form of humanity. Same as the 'black community' and the 'trans community' and so on. If you are a trans who doesn't agree with the 'idea' of the trans community, you can essentially be exiled, off to the gulags. Your humanity is forfeit because you don't fit the idea. Now, they don't care that you're trans because you don't fit their specific concept of trans. You are no longer human. You can be doxxed.
So, when we say 'disgusting people dox others', well, I think that's true, but also, all but the most introspective of us are capable of such things when pushed into the right corners and educated with the right agenda, given enough time.
Really, we all have that disgusting part within us. It just depends on how susceptible each of us are the outside forces trying to bring it out.
I haven't seen that quote before, but it is telling and it has persisted (afaik) through to today in China. "This language is only spoken by 5 million people, so we consider it dead. This town only has 5 million people in it, so we can turn it into a dam."
What you are saying about the trans community etc is the thing - it is the indoctrination into the concept, forfeiting the reality and humanity to the "book" at al cost.
Absolutely. But, we all have the most powerful simulation mechanism ever created (in our experience) and can have thoughts without acting upon them. That susceptibility can be affected by many things, but our inability to control our actions shows a spectrum of weakness.
I have trouble staying away from eating sweet foods - some people have trouble controlling their actions to deliberately try and hurt people. Is it the same mechanism in play? Maybe - but what does that tell of us and the society we have created. Should I blame advertising on my sweet tooth?
Well put. Yes, we as humans have a blindspot when it comes to ourselves, and those that engage in the most reprehensional actions will go at great lengths to justify their behavior. While in some circumstance I think they are just trying to convince others (and themselves) that they did the right thing, in many cases I think they genuinely believe their actions are justified. Otherwise, why would they continue to engage in the same patterns of behavior?
I didn't see the offending comment but I did see the reactions to it.
Doxxing however is one of the most extreme things you can do to someone online except maybe swatting, and that's only a small step away. It's completely unacceptable.
That said I'm not sure what I'd do if someone started down voting all my posts into oblivion. Certainly not doxxing, but I'd be very distressed.
What is swatting? That is a new one for me.
However in this case, that didn't actually happen, they weren't zeroing every post, they were very careful about which ones they downvoted - the ones that were copy pasted across multiple platforms.
Personally and in my experience (I do have a "fair bit" of experience getting downvoted here), the best thing to do is get on with your day and do what you enjoy. I write regardless, but I am not only in it for the money.
It's when you call the police saying there's a hostage situation at the address in the attempt of getting an armed response. It happens frequently to streamers and a lot of people have died from it.
Ahh, I did wonder if the mass down votes were the initial response or the response to the doxxing. It seems deserved in that case.
I think the spillover into the real world is going to get worse. It is already happening in so many ways at scale, but it is going to get more and more personal as people have so little "real life" in their real lives.
Pretty much like you said, disgusting people doing disgusting things because they like to be disgusting, and they can always deny the act, and act like you or anyone else that points out their disgusting behavior are the ones that are wrong.
I have seen doxing in action from some of the things my wife sees on youtube, and the doxer is always the most hurt person in the world even though they are the ones that did wrong.
It is the same kind of act as revenge posting about ex girlfriends ex boyfriends ex spouse. Revenge posting is now illegal in America, I would hope one day doxing will be also.
Was no different here. Full of excuses as to why.
What disgusting thing to do to anyone, least of all someone you once cared about.
Some Americans are total ass holes. I guess it is the same in most countries, but I don't know for sure. I think it is part of the give me give me mentality. Very few want to grow up and be men and women anymore.
Hey Taraz
I saw some of this go down and I agree - it's wrong on so many levels. The part that really irritates me is the entitlement that seems to be behind it...like you said in your opening paragraph - no one is entitled until it is paid out. Also if you get reprimanded for doing something that you know is frowned upon, then you have no right to complain when you get caught.
It's reprehensible.
A little while ago I got a message from a community owner that I had not followed all the rules of posting in that community. They were far nicer than they needed to be and they could have removed or muted the post without even letting me know, but they endeavoured to rather let me know where I had gone wrong.
Instead of being a tool about it, I acknowledged my mistake and apologized to her - because I was in the wrong and I own my shit. I still post in that community and have discussions with her with no issues.
It seems these days that people are not willing to admit when they were in the wrong, that's half the problem. Then to take it a step further and dig their heels in in righteous indignation which is totally unjustified just irks me.
Doxxing is just another form of bullying.
Yep. But these types twist reality to fit their story. Like "they downvote all of my posts" even though that is not the case and the reason has been stated.
It isn't hard to mend fences, but discussion is needed, not attack.
Yep and the "going public" at the start with private information or conversation. I don't get - it is like pressing the nuclear button - there is no reset option.
Yes. The hypocrisy is real.
Doxing is messed up.
In Korea it's extreme and treated more severely than stalking.
Almost every private person speaking on the news is censored and has 'mickey mouse' voice to help prevent it.
It's also very difficult for all but the worst criminals to have their full names published.
Korea has some of the most severe anti defamation laws for any democracy. It doesn't matter if it is true, what is important is if it is embarassing or private.
Celebrities and politicians threaten to sue people all the time.
Personally, I find it a bit extreme. But its helps deter doxing.
I have heard it is pretty crazy there in this regard. I disagree with the extremes of it too, where everyone is suing because of hurt feelings - I think we incentivize it these days though - where our feelings are meant to be "protected" from anything that could disrupt them. A lack of maturity.
I'm afraid that these people really think they are victims, believe it themselves. I have encountered such people. They believe that they are hurt worse than anyone else in the world, and therefore the end justifies the means. So this will continue to happen, unfortunately... Only by their own example of different behavior and other methods of communication can some of them be dragged to a different reality. A reality where it is possible to negotiate even with the enemy...
!PIZZA
Narcissistic personality Disorder people are like this.
I never heard of doxxing before and luckily haven't stumbled upon it here. I mean, we all disagree at some point of time with one or another, but spending own resources to harm others in a way like that is indeed the weakest sign of a human being.
In my life I met several people that pissed me off and I could have harmed them afterwards by sharing personal information. In my head I went through all kinds of retributions, but only in my head. The one moment playing it in my head was the relief I needed and then rationality kicked in. What would I have gained in real life? Nothing but headaches, bad vibes and nerve wrecking situations. Not worth it. Plus the time one has to invest. It eats you up from inside when you follow a path like that.
I'm not sure what situation you are referring here too, but I hope the larger community is willing to stick together, making it harder for doxxing.
It speaks of their value system for sure.
This is the place to do our thinking - seems a lot of people don't think these days. We have a brain that can simulate all kinds of scenarios, thinking them isn't the issue, acting on them is.
The issue has come up various times over the years I have been here - unfortunately, it will again and again too. Pity.
In a lot of ways this is true. But when it comes to doxxing and stuff they mistake their emotions for thinking. If you go after another in a way like that it has to be because of emotions. And then you gotta ask yourself why it is that makes you act like that? But then again that means self-reflection. A trait we need more these days.
Ain't this the truth.
I think that we have been encouraged to value our emotions and our "instincts" without actually questioning them before acting. Good instinct is trained be experience and emotions are often degraded by a lack of experience. Rather than reflect and act, it is act on emotion, regardless of whether the emotion is based on real information, or the action justified by circumstance.
Agree. Though to come to the point to understand for yourself what your emotions and reactions are is a journey for itself. People that reach the point of understanding themselves better can act differently. I see and feel the urge to complain and be mad at someone or something. I'm a highly emotional person but I found a way of dealing with them. Was a journey but it is possible.
Well brother, I totally agree that this action (doxing) is a pathetic, irrational and stupid act.
The problem also lies beyond that, it lies in the mentality of materialistic and insane people, of despicable upbringing in which no values of any kind were instilled. It also depends on how we look at this HIVE ecosystem; in which (in my experience) has served to share and appreciate art, points of view, concepts, it is something that is managed under a beautiful paradigm!
But as you say, there will always be an irresponsible and "spoiled" madman who believes he has the right to affect others based on his poor performance and lack of patience to processes that, within this social network, are absolutely normal; as for example the simple fact that you are not upvoted at a time or that no whale sees you (which has happened to me 😆) and it is understood that they are a bit frustrating things, but that's just part of this process.
At least for me, who lives in an underdeveloped third world country in crisis, what I earn in Hive is much more than what I could earn in a regular job keeping a schedule and being on my feet all day, but even so, if a week doesn't go well I would be incapable of wanting to talk bad about the curators within the platform just because of a bad streak in which I'm the one who must review their content.
As I said, it's a matter of education and conscience, but in this world those things are going to disappear and the insane people will be even inside these beautiful spaces of sharing like Hive.
Greetings! 😃🙏🙌👍🎇🎆♦️💯
This is important to note and if you are relying on it, you have to understand that your behavior will affect others too. Also, I don't recommend relying on it, because nothing is certain here.
@tarazkp That's right, but it's not about good behavior in terms of greed but rather by virtue of sharing and appreciation!
I do not know what he meant by saying that nothing is certain here, but if he means that Hive may cease to be more or less profitable, then it is obvious and he is right. In this material world everything is uncertain, matter is not Plenary if not rather temporary, nothing is certain in this life, absolutely nothing and least of all a social network. 😃🙌🙏
I agree with all of this. Your position is well written and shows serious understanding/pragmatic deliberation. Well played!
Thanks :)
This is the first time I am hearing this word which makes me feel very dumb but I am glad I got to learn something new today.
I think most people forget to be compassionate when they feel like they are trying to achieve something good or bad especially when it relates to money, the whole concept of doxxing is disheartening.
It is the behavior of the pathetic perhaps :)
Very pathetic but then a lot of humans emit pathetic behaviors.
Dear @tarazkp, Are you advocating to get rid of downvote?
Definitely not. I believe downvotes are a very necessary part of the system.
I'm certain I saw that post, I was more attracted to the comment section as though I spotted the downvotes, so obviously, there's gotta be some arguments below.
That said, whatever the reasons may be, this is invasion of privacy and pretty much the lowest any human can go to cause damages as revenge or whatsoever...
It is very low - especially since they don't seem to have tried any other way forward.
People have so much time. Why would anyone go through all that trouble? And to gain what?
This one has taken almost 45 minutes of back and forth and then down to the comments. My question is, how far are some of us really willing to go for a couple of dollars?
I am so sad to see people, first, trying to turn the chain into the mediocre that is centralized platforms.
How do we -those who want a toxic-free environment- tell them it's okay to go back to Facebook groups where that kind of banter is free!? Hive is a sanctuary for those of us who couldn't stand it.
Second, isn't tiring to go against the constructive path?
Sighs.
It is a funny question to ponder but, it seems to be - very far.
They want all the benefits of Facebook, but all the benefits of Hive, without realizing that they are incompatible.
Our own worst enemy is ourselves.
Damn. That's sad.
But they are NOT! That's why we are slowly migrating from Facebook to Hive.
As my own enemy, I try not to take anyone else with me down under but I guess we all have our own way of embarrassing ourselves too.
Wow...
I rarely see you come out so strong against something, so I know something serious has happened.
I must admit that originally I didn't know what doxxing was or why it was bad until I learned about how it places people and their family in physical danger.
I must admit that initially I thought people were over reacting, but after getting a sense for what you call crazies, I must admit that there are people in the internet community who are willing to hurt people's children over differing views.
Yes. Innocent children, innocent spouses.
We have arrived at a low where children and wives are fair game, even mothers or siblings.
So I hear you.
And for those of you who are afraid...I feel you...I recognize your concerns and fears.
You are not paranoid when they are out to get you.
I wish you safe anonymity.
The world has become quite crazy in so many ways, where people no longer feel that they have a responsibility to not endanger others willingly. On Hive, this was literally over a few cents here and there. The problem is the sense of entitlement though.
Enlightening I must say, I’m adding another word to my vocabulary box, “doxxing” . It is such an inhumane thing to do in my own opinion, proper act of cowardice .
Good to build the vocabulary :)
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Please vote for pizza.witness!
I wouldn't agree that one can be downvoted due to personel issues. If I remember correctly, there was a downvote wars in Steemit among the people from my coumtry. I think downvote could do more harm than good.
People can do as they please, whether you or I agree or not. THis is part of the platform's freedoms. If these kinds of activities are controlled, the platform loses its appeal, because people do not own their experience. However, on a second-layer platform experience (leo, speak network), the owners of the model can do as they please.
I mean no control, but downvotes could be tied into certain rules. No downvote for personal issues.
enforce it how?
Certain rules: No plagiarism, no spam etc.
That isn't enforcing and, that is the "suggested" use already.