If the whales of Hive wanted it to be decentralized DPOS they would power down and sell their Hive so more people could have access to it. This makes things more decentralized the less whales there are. We don't need whales for the Hive blockchain to work, whales are centralized entities with large amounts of stake.
I dont think anyone should be marketing Hive (or Steem for that matter) as DPOS until we are there. Code is law, stake is power, the reality of code is law just means might = right, and staked power is the same. Having a few dozen very powerful Kings is not the intent of DPOS, it is perverse that there are whales on DPOS. Is it better that we have 30 or so powerful Kings rather than 1 King? Sure, its more decentralized. Would it be even better if it took thousands and thousands of people voting for a witness to make them top 20? Yes, it would be a lot more decentralized and exponentially more secure, as it would be a lot less like a cartel and more like actual users of the platform controlling things(how DPOS is envisioned and protrayed to be).
Right now the top 20 witnesses have some large backers voting for them for witness. Is it decentralization to have 30 to 50 of the top Hive power accounts choosing who is in charge?
How is that not a Cartel? How is it DPOS? Wouldn't DPOS look like "it takes 1000s of accounts voting on a witness for them to be top 20, not 30 to 50?"
Is Hive more decentralized than Steem? Yes. Is there a better spirit among the current power brokers of whom we are all at their mercy? Yes. Does it need to be that way, do whales on this platform TRULY need this much control? No.
Will the whales sell their stake to help make Hive more decentralized? This is decentralization that can happen almost immediately, simply start the power down process and sell(or at least stay powered down).
I think all accounts with over 150k HP should start powering down and sell onto the market so we can have more decentralization. Also, I encourage people to start buying Hive and powering up. I sold some recently and have now changed my mind on how I view Hive. I now view Hive as "something we all need to constantly hammer, something that we all need to constantly challenge, constantly challenge any entrenched high power accounts and encourage them to sell, encourage others to buy". Join me and reiterating this message. We can put pressure on the entrenched just like we do with rich people in real life or politicians, the rich people on Hive are BOTH POLITICIANS AND WEALTHY ELITES, whether they view themselves as that or not is irrelevant, they are. They are in complete control of the politics of this chain via being rich, that's a Cartel baby!!!
Hive DPOS has to get away from what Steem DPOS was, we are nowhere close to being ACTUAL DECENTRZLIED DPOS. Oh, and when we have 75/25 rewards whales were being bled yearly and losing their power because they upvoted others. Let's say a whale would upvote content weekly and give out 750 USD in rewards to authors and 250 USD to themselves via curation rewards, under 50/50 that changed to 500 to authors and 500 to themselves. This effectively keeps the whale a whale until they sell, whereas before they slowly lose their whale status over time under 75/25(which is the whole point). 50/50 is yet another perversion that was rationalized as a way for "people to buy stake". I've called this out many times and it never got any traction.
Gotta disagree. Large holders give confidence to a chain. The issues you call out are true but this is not the solution. Would harm hive far more
Large banks give consumers confidence in the banking system. Huh?
How would it harm hive to have less Kings?
Insert reply about truthforce being a court jester here.😁
How would u force them to sell?
Or make this come to pass if not through a forced action?
I don’t understand the bank example
The banking system is fakery and fucked.
I’m saying having big holders in things like bitcoin and other independent items
It definitely gives confidence seeing individuals holding.
All that said I could care less who’s holding what. My point is pretty much if you somehow forced the biggest holders to dump it would do damage and a lot of damage to Hive price thus turning off mid range holders and so on. Some of the biggest holders are also those involved in projects on chain. It’s anti freedom what is suggested. Just my take.
It’s all love but gotta disagree with ya.
It’s all good
Cheers 🍻
Also,
Bitcoin has been bank controlled for over 5 years now, and 80%+ of the mining power is centralized in china and under control of the chinese government, they could do a 51% attack anytime they feel like it. Almost nothing happens in china without approval from the authoritarian leadership, everything has to be approved and signed off on by them and those bitcoin miners there are all a big problem that will become evident some day when they decide to mess with bitcoin.
https://hive.blog/informationwar/@truthforce/for-the-record-again-bitcoin-is-controlled-by-bilderberg-elite-bankers-stop-shilling-bankcoin#comments
You said force then made an argument against me like I said it.
Feel free to quote something in my post that suggest forcing anyone to do anything. You misread what I said.
What would be the way to go about this?
Non-force of course of course :)
Asking whales to power down voluntarily by convincing them of the merits of the argument of decentralizing.
Convince others who are not whales to continue to up their stake by convincing them of the merits of the argument of decentralizing.
Creating posts/comments/videos talking about doing this, then sharing that content, if you/someone you know knows a whale you/them could talk to the whale about this/talk to people who don't have much HP.
Are you sure about that? I am not so sure. Both are pretty much centralized around the whales. They control (own) the content visibility, and they also decide who get the most part of the rewards. Like you wrote, it should not be any whales on DPOS.
I think that it would be foolish to assume "maybe", let alone "yes" as an answer to this question. They took control and richness, and they do whatever is needed to keep and grow it. Power corrupts most people, and the rich almost always want to be more rich.
But to be honest, if I would have 150 000 Hive power, I would not sell it either. I would use it to curate, and I would also invest it.
"If I had 150k hive power, I wouldn't sell it either, I'd invest it!"
This is your guyses stupidity wrapped up in 1 sentence.. if you have hive power it is already invested dipshit.
That is. Dipshit. Yeah. This is your indiscretion wrapped up in one word. The style is the person itself.
"It should not be any whales on DPoS.. we luv authoritarian communism! Kill the whales! Eat the rich!"
Except I am firmly against communism and authoritarianism.
You just called me out for not watching something from theycallmedan from 2 weeks ago, how about I call you out for not watching my 4 years of running Informationwar?
https://hive.blog/informationwar/@informationwar/bias-in-this-account-curator-truthforce
https://hive.blog/@informationwar/about-the-decentralized-truth-movement-and-informationwar
People like you are an absolute embarrassment to Libertarianism and you should take that out of your profile description, you're way too emotional over something you don't even understand or have knowledge about. That's not what a Libertarian does.
Yea.. I expected alot more from the "libertarians" on hive.. but I quickly found out it was just more fomenting conspiracy theories, infighting and pointless social justice warrior bullshit like what this post is.
You see Dan invited you to a debate.. If you are an actual adult and want to continue to stand on your 4 years of hard work advocating for this.. I look forward to your debate with him so I can understand better, while hearing both sides.
His reply was to lucylin on a debate
Remember what happened the last time we tried to kill the whales?👽
What the actual fuck!?
That was hilarious🤣🤣🤣 Everyone is trying to kidnap or kill the whales🏴☠️ This made my day!
Why not the other way around? Perhaps we should encourage more people to whale up. The more whales we have, everyone wins. At the very least, we should increase the number of orcas. This way power gets distributed without demanding anybody give up anything.
Having whales power down sounds like a good idea assuming people have money to buy the Hive the whales are selling. If that’s the case, there’s already tons of Hive on exchanges. Nothing stopping anyone from buying those Hive coins to power up. I know I’ve never faced a shortage of Hive when I put in some cash. I don’t need whales to power down so I can power up.
What if there was more USA's, how does that help anything?
Kind of like every country that was part of the UK is still friends with the UK. Having more USAs would actually make things work much better all around, actually. We'd understand each other.
What???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
Now you need to take a look at that list so you can learn some terrible truths about the USA, our government is aweful, probably the worst that ever existed.
Right, because the USA started the Vietnam war based on lies they made up in order to invade. We allowed Pearl Harbor to happen(declassified) so we could have an excuse to join WW2 officially(unofficially we were supporting China and had our own pilots in an outfit called Flying Tigers). We also have started many numerous wars and committed killed millions of innocents via bombings/starvation/no water to drink. We also have a ponzi scheme system that constantly milks money from the poorer people and allows mega corporations to profit and stay monopolies. Big Tech, Big Pharma, Stock Market is a scam, Federal Reserve prints unlimited money and we are all debt slaves, Land Tax makes it so you can't even own your own land ever(we are serfs paying the government for land we "own" forever), tons of problems.
I'm not disagreeing with you on US history. You asked "how does that help anything?" I answered. But, I'm guessing you meant the USA to be a metaphor for a whale on Hive. So, metaphorically, if we have more whales on Hive, we'd all have a better understanding of each other. Again, in direct answer to your question, "how does that help anything." By understanding each other, we could work together much better.
I think perhaps you meant to say that having multiple USAs (whales) would amplify whatever ills they bring. My good-natured naiveté is more along the lines to sticking to the topic. One has to pare down the superfluous to get to the heart of the matter. While I appreciate your knowledge of history, it hasn't anything to do with what you asked. Perhaps you could ask better questions. Or, was it a rhetorical question to which you did not want an answer (rhetorical)? Now I'm suspicious of your last question.
Those who hold power rarely give it up, especially those with lots of power. The question is why do people like this feel the need to hold power over others, and why to such a high degree? If they are investors that is a different story. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to get them to reduce their power, and or increase the masses power and our own to help balance decentralization vs mega whales being in charge of everything(most of the same people who ran stuff on Steem now do it on Hive too).
Yes, having more USAs just means there will be more pointless wars/proxy wars/terrorism/unlimited money printing/federal reserve money printing scams/stock market scams/big pharma/corruption in politics/etc. The USA's government probably needs to be reduced by 90% to 95% for it to be inline with the Constitution and potentially have a chance to be ethical and moral.
You're not wrong on the second part.
On the first part, I think the matter is debatable. I could see both sides of the argument. But, I wouldn't conflate whales with witnesses. In some cases they are both. But, not all cases. I generally do not vote for witnesses I don't like. As I power up more and more, my influence should also matter more. I agree with theycallmedan in that all the small accounts add up. We have more power than we give ourselves credit for.
Looking at how much foreign aid the United States gives out the world would be far better if other countries were as equally generous. Other countries are not required to give as much foreign aid as the USA so they don't. Why would they when they see people like you ask how anything would be helped if more countries were like the USA?
I gave you a list of a wikipedia that shows historically how many countries the USA has overthrown.
Just stop dude. The USA IS modern tyranny. Then we give aid to those we tyranize so we can setup influence peddling rackets and spy on those governments, or make those governments dependent on us. The USA is not a force for good, we manipulate everything and are puppet master psychopaths
The leader of North Korea wants to literally nuke the area of the United States I live in yet he remains the leader of North Korea. I was rather disappointed that the United States doesn't deal with such a huge threat. Then I read your reply and realized we must either be grossly incompetent at overthrowing governments or that you are exaggerating to the point of dishonesty.
Because you need to learn more. NK has 200k plus prisoners held in reserve ready to be executed if we ever invade. And their guns are pointed at South Korea and millions would die.
I love how your responses tend to be "you need to learn more" or "read all my past posts". When it comes to debating you are literally your own worst enemy. Even if you had good points and ideas which your reply above demonstrates you vaguely do at times you aren't able to express them well before alienating the ones you are trying to convince.
Respectfully you sound like ur just repeating talking points. Only reason NKorea even talks about sending nukes if because we have our troops along there bostfer since the 1950s. The USA has been the ones keeper mt this threat going/. I’m a proud American
But that doesn’t mean believing propaganda and lies. It would be millions dead if we attacked.
There’s only room for one empire at a time/ it’s our government. We have troops in 120 nations. We are the empire
Certainly wouldn’t be a good thing
As opposed to more Chinas
Yeah it is. But more USAs without deep state control
There are really already a tons of Hive on the exchanges. A lot of Hive is stored on the exchanges. Someone used to make posts about how much, but I currently do not remember his name.
...To summarize, delegated-type proof-of-stake chains are , by their very design, plutocratic cabals that centralize over time...
Vitalik Buterin, the founder of Ethereum, made headlines earlier this year when he argued that DPoS creates incentives for witnesses to form cartels and bribe voters.
Convince me they're wrong, using Hive as the working example...
Then Vitalik Buterin said the truth earlier this year. Bribing voters is a real thing. At least on the Steem blockchain.
Some witnesses are already offered votes for voting for them on the Steem blockchain. Probably the same thing is going on on the Hive blockchain, but to be honest, I do not even want to see it.
Probably the same thing is going on on the Hive blockchain, but to be honest, I do not even want to see it.
I always found putting my head in the sand an unacceptable state of affairs....not only that , the sand stops the brain functioning properly and increases 'fear hormone' production.. ( or so I've heard)
Fear is good for business!
Only a matter of time, which is why its critical to have less whales
Yes. Over time this will always happen, which is why the whales we currently have are a future problem. They may be "benevolent dictators or kings" currently, the 75 percent of bitcoin miners in China are too(lmao!!), until they arent
Jesus fuckin christ... @theycallmedan made a video about this less than 2 weeks ago. @truthforce
peakd.com/hive167922/@theycallmedan/cuynjoxt
Ok? Does that mean I watched it because he made it two weeks ago?
"Jesus fuckin christ @unorgmilitia" I am not on this chain very much as I have a lot of real life stuff to do.
I will take a listen though now that you brought it to my attention.
And also, I've been saying these things for years and so have others.
"Jesus fuckin christ"
;)
Luv you.. Mean it!! <3
I noticed - it was just after I posted the quote originally on one of my posts - coincidence?
Maybe.
I have an enitre book about DPOS. I've got at least 20 fully written post about it that still need to be edited and organized. Some of my writing is years old. I did see your post about DPOS, it had all the same critics that are not new. Just to be clear my DPOS post (I have many published throughout my years as a creator) wasn't in anyway a response to your post. With that said, happy to debate anytime if you want.
why dont you tag leo finance, CTP, BRO, and others so that you can really spread your message.. this is a broad subject, and definitely involves finance.
Because leo finance people never upvote me when I post things like this. I've tried in the past. Scroll back through my other posts and see they get 0 traction there.
Ooooh so that's what your here for is upvotes... not the principles of decentralization which your post was about? That's confusing... you want people to pick up the banner and carry your message... but only if they upvote you..
You claim to be Libertarian yet in most of your comments are doing Name-Calling or Ad hominems.
OK buddy. You're such a good Libertarian....
You said "where I am here for is upvotes". In my 4 years here I haven't been here for upvotes. I choose NOT to participate in a community that doesn't want me there, THAT IS LIBERTARIANISM the freedom of association.
Nobody has to do anything. If they choose to respond to my ask they certainly can, freedom of associate and freewill. I can ask people to do something and they can do it or decline.
I centrally refuted all of your arguments with ease in the other comments, so I am going to now factually call you an idiot, because you have shown yourself to be one(I am quite surprised at this, most idiots don't do that). You're the confused person because you're an idiot. I treat you with the same respect you treat me and I owe it to you to tell you the truth, you're dumb. Maybe people don't tell you this in real life because your intimidating or something but I don't care about hurting a bully's feelings. Fuck bullies, fuck people who purposefully misinterpret what other says(especially when I am extremely clear in what I say), fuck people like you who waste others time with your inane nonsensical bullshit. Keep saying some stupid shit here, keep making up lies, and keep slandering me here on my own post and I'm going to downvote that.
Who are specifically the whales who you want to give financial advice to, and encourage them to power down.. why don't you tag the top 10, 20, or 30 whales on hive, so that they can see your message??
Tag spamming people like that is frowned upon, you have a lot to learn about etiquette on here.
Lol wow.. why the fuck should you care, your fighting for a cause you believe in!
it's not my style to do that, and why should you care back at ya ;)
You can certainly make a post about the whales and tag them if you want.
So do you
You forgot to mention flags...
Lesson #1: If you use a name without "@" they don't get tagged. That way you can at least specify the whales that hurt you and where the whales touched you.
I haave better things to do than give @truthforce Lesson #2 tomorrow. Can you substitute for me @unorgmilitia?👨🏫🤣
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STOPYou are free to buy as much stake as you want, just like the rest of us. I was well on my way to Orca but too many commie crybaby bitches made me decide against it. 🤷♂️
Woah! dude bro whaddup???
How U doing Bro
Eh been better mental health wise but My overall health is so much better than a couple of years ago. Been feeling like I need to support @ura-soul and others in truth community. I left them to curate splinterlands content and now art. I keep on telling Ura to blockchain game it as well as defy. Like lets go chasing aprs bro... I mean the downvotes are outrageous. Its like Sun is here having a blast destroying our community with aimless flags with our witnesses enjoying it too with their silence. The time is nigh duder. We can make a change. Ura and co. really need community support!
What cha think about my proposal idea? Seems we can easily get rid of downvotes. We need all hands on deck to vote for this yet to be created proposal if this is a protocol change we can make....
https://peakd.com/@dynamicsteemians/re-kennyskitchen-r3mt5j
III.2. Protocol Changes Pg.5
The main issue is that DV is not necessary at all. If it is then it needs to be better clarified in the Whitepaper.
Old Buddy TK 💖
Nice, but I'd be risking my own rewards how much by participating?
It's a valid question, and I know I can also still just buy and hodl Hive amd reap rewards too...
It is an honest proposal to remove the words or downwards and downvote in the whitepaper will allow for everyone to live together peacefully and stop this unnecessary divide between whales, witnesses and the community
How would abuse of rewards pool be policed??
I agree, abuse of flagging is BS but so is raping the pool
We are also free to grow. Our curation trail has 1.5m hp behind it and growing larger.
We also are getting witnesses we like higher in rankings.
That's the way u do it!!!
Your dictionary is broken or you're using the Brezhnev approved 1978 Russian to English dictionary. Not sure which. Try borrowing a friend's dictionary to find out what the actual definition of "decentralization" is.👨🏫
Your criticism is nonsense. If you have something you want to say then specify your criticism otherwise nobody will be able to understand what you wrote.
I wasn't criticizing "you". I was blaming the source of whatever confused you into not knowing what "decentralization" means.
Here's what decentralization means:
By definition it is already decentralized ("whales" not "whale"). Obviously you thought it was something else or else you would have realized that making something which is already decentralized "more decentralized" is like making a piece of white paper more white by cutting it up into small squares.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you understand how things like that work. Maybe you don't. It surprises me how many people fall for homeopathy. You could be one of them.😄
You could give me the benefit of the doubt by reading the last 4 years of what I've written on the subject instead of copying and pasting a basic definition. I've done way more advanced posts than that, as well as comments and podcasts.
I'm not the confused one.
Copying and pasting? Oh, you mean "quoting". Fine. I'll paraphrase definitions then for you and if I can't quote definitions I shouldn't do it for your replies either. I'll paraphrase your reply instead:
I am pretty confident I can guess why the Leofinance community doesn't upvote you much and I can virtually guarantee it's not for the reasons you assume.
And they dont upvote me because I make posts critical of their project. I also consistently exposed how bitcoin is controlled by AXA Ventures bank when they paid 55 million usd to the bitcoin main dev team and bought them out.
If you scroll back through my posts which tmdoesnt take long to do you will see those posts
The crypto community is delusional and doesnt like to be told bitcoin is owned by a bank. That 80 percent btc miners are in China, and in China you cam only mine btc with govt approval and it's all govt run and controlled
Which means bitcoin isnt decentralized and it is run by a government in large part with most mining controlled directly by the Chinese government. My posts have all the links if you want to learn. It's all factual and real
Up to you if you want to learn or not. I can lead the horse to the water but cant make the horse drink it
You do have a point. Leofinance probably doesn't upvote conspiracy fiction even if it's poorly written economic fantasy. Maybe creativecoin would but just a few seconds of scrutinizing your worldbuilding makes your narrative fall apart.
Have you considered taking some writing classes? That might help you come up with better fantasy to entertain an audience. Right now your "I am a struggling and misunderstood author" is overshadowing your works of fiction. That's another thing you should try to fix.
You're an extremely confused person. Those quotes u quoted above, I never said those things or even came come to paraphrasing them that way
Every interaction I've had with you involves explaining things to you and you just dont seem to have any foundation crypto or geo politics for that matter. You've got a lot of learning to do
The person who is being paraphrased doesn't paraphrase themselves. That's not how that works. You don't want me to quote definitions and paraphrasing the definition of the word "paraphrase" is...Oh, you almost got me. You don't like words with more than three letters. You love to redefine words. Sorry but the English language doesn't exist just so you can....need to use a word with less than four letters...sex with it.