Community Poll: Is the HBD Stabilizer "Experiment" Worth Cutting All But a Single Developers DHF Funding? EDIT

in #pole3 years ago (edited)

Now, while it's entirely impossible to know the true motives behind the largest stakeholders deciding all of a sudden that the HBD price being out of whack (like it always has been basically) was more important than paying community voted proposal funding to build out the ecosystem.. It seems that the "elite" class have possibly decided that under the guise of "restoring the peg" they'd be able to use the ~ 23,000 HBD (worth a bit over $50,000 USD at time of writing) to trade HBD -> BTC -> HIVE in order to create downward pressure on the HBD price while at the same time artificially inflating the HIVE market price by effectively misappropriating DHF funding meant for developers into the HIVE market cap, effectively pumping everyone's bags, but also due to them being largest HIVE holders, ultimately being the ones to benefit the most from this course of action.

There are a number of different ways that the peg could be corrected that would be far greater in effect than the current method that provides less than 1% the required downward pressure required to even begin to correct the HBD price.. Look for newer post from me highlighting some methods.

Looking at Historical Peg Data... It's Never Worked Well

The HBD peg has never performed well, and I sure as shit have no idea why it's all of a sudden taking priority over paying developers.. Seems like shooting yourself in the foot a bit completely shaking developer dedication to your network trying to wrangle some known to be fucked peg or to stuff a bit of money into your buddies pockets. A single dedicated developer is 100x worth more than any "pegged" financial vehicle that doesn't fucking work to begin with, due to the toolset required being missing. I don't know about you, but supporting development should be priority over fucking HBD.

It boils down to the "elite" class being able to dictate who gets money in the community and who doesn't, simply out of the fact their vote weight is untouchable and ultimately is greater than the rest of the community combined. Do you think the HBD Stabilizer Experiment is worth it for the community or is this a few individuals explioting their positions to convince the community they are helping when in reality they're simply feigning wishing to create an attractive and marketable network while taking actions that at the end of the day serve only to create more wealth for themselves? I have no fucking idea anymore. I like to think the folks here in power are acting out of more than a desire to create their own money printers, even better yet, for the benefit of the whole community... But the more I look down the rabbit hole, the more I begin to wish I hadn't. Fml.

NOTE: This post contains speculation and hypothetical motive expression. There is no way for me to deny or confirm anything put forward in this post and it's not to be taken as fact but rather as a potential reality. The above text merely outlines the worst case scenario, which hopefully isn't true. I might be completely off the mark here, or dead on the money about the situation. No idea.. <_<

Is the HBD Stabilizer "Experiment" Worth Cutting All But a Single Developers DHF Funding?
Please vote on your answer below with a 1% (or greater) vote on how you land on this

POLL RESULTS SO FAR:

Option 1.

HBD Stabilizer is a great initiative and I love what the witnesses are doing!

No Votes!


Option 2.

HBD Stabilizer isn't effective and I don't support this!

6 Votes!


Option 3.

HBD Stabilizer isn't something I care about or have info on!

1 Vote!


Option 4.

HBD Stabilizer is a fucking scam masquerading as a good deed!

5 Votes!


Option 5. (added by @felixxx)

Stabilizer might be effective, but I do not see the need for it.

3 Votes!


Total Votes: 10

12 Against or Condemning
3 Indifferent
0 in Support of HBD Stabilizer

So uhh.. So far the community votes are leaning heavily towards the HBD stabilizer either is a scam or unnecessary.. You can't make up feedback like this, the community is casting their votes and making options if they feel their view isn't expressed in the original options. Take from this what you will.. But when you have >7 votes against vs ZERO votes supporting it.. Maybe it's time for the ones on top doing this shit to pay attention to how the community feels rather than focusing on what they prefer..

EDIT: It looks like HBD stabilizer is being scaled back in favour of returning developer funding back to those with proposals above threshold. This is INCREDIBLE news and I'm glad to see an equilibrium between developers and the top tier governing class being found after a tense few weeks. Certainly a step in the right direction and it sounds like our voices have been heard.


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Option 4.

HBD Stabilizer is a fucking scam masquerading as a good deed!

@klye The fact that you have been out in front of this and vocal about this issue, as well as the good work in development that your doing.. I trust that you have a better understanding of the inner workings of this, and I trust your opinion/point of view.

I hope you and cryptomaniacs can have an in-depth conversation about this, or if you'd be interested in recording a podcast&video with me, detailing this situation, I'd be willing to help do that. Cos I think bringing the humanity to this subject through our voices will ultimately help in conveying this issue vs. words on a screen, with no vocal emotion attached.

What I'm bringing to attention, when brought up to the "elites", was basically for some reason a trigger and resulted in me being insulted for merely expressing that myself and members of the community aren't fucking pleased with what's going on and that the 3rd party developer community being thrown under the bus over a known to be broken peg and chance to pump bags is going to dissolve any future this network has if the path of the majority is dictated by a handful of people that may be acting only in their best interests.. :(

Down for a talk though if you'll have me on. I'm certainly not a speaker who can hold his tongue and if you're not into foul mouth language and incoherrent ramblings... I'm probably not a proper fit..

But if you don't care your rating s get shit tanked.. Totally down!

I’m down! Let’s do it!!! I'll get a list of questions written up, and shoot for sometime next week.

Right on man. By next week Hive.Loans should be in public testing so that lines up perfect.

Thanks for wanting to even have a show with me. HIghly appreciate the invite. :)

Awesome man! Yea this is something I have found im really passionate about, is interviewing and talking to people about the things they are passionate about, and projects they are working on. Rite now I am approaching these copy/paste DeFi platforms on BSC, and seeing what it is that they think they are doing, and allowing them to shine a light on their competence and ingenuity, or to show their ignorance and incompetence.. either way it's a learning experience for them, and everyone else.

Yeah man. A noble effort to let those buidlding or whatever a chance to speak!

Developers are geerally an odd lot, detatched a bit from the society aroudn them.. This is me attempting to let the public in on things going on, on some different medium than text.

Highly apprecaite you allowing that. :)

I don't believe in it and I still believe it's price manipulation. If you're telling me all of this money is going to buy Hive and it helps the Hive price well shit we are in trouble now once it stops as Hive's price honestly isn't that great. So being propped up by this really means without it Hives price would be like $0.40 or worse!

I don't believe that HBD price were manipulated on low liquidity trading pairs. I believe that HBD price goes up with HIVE price because it is worth more than 1 USD of HIVE until enough HBD is printed. I don't believe that HBD conversion value could be lowered by dumping HBD from DHF. I believe that some may even make profit by buying underpriced dumps from DHF and converting them to HIVE.

I believe that some may even make profit by buying underpriced dumps from DHF and converting them to HIVE.

Did you check? I am curious.

Do you mean the hive-internal conversion operation?

Option 2.

HBD Stabilizer isn't effective and I don't support this!

I already see the HDF as socialism, and am against that, so I am 100% okay with people having to get more creative with their funding models if it reduces the inflation of Hive and Stablizes the dollar.

@antisocialist @freebornangel @darkflame @rawbe @unorgmilitia @frot @lucylin

Do you guys feel the HBD we are already handing out as a community would be better off used to stabilize HBD rather than fund developers in a socialist way?

Personally I feel the currency is more important than the developer funding.

yeah.. Maybe I'm a fucking commie I guess.. A commie that wants democracy..? wut.

The real issue is rule by force.
As long as we accept that it is ok for some folks to be herded with violence then we all get herded by the most violent.

Here is your commie.
It's not what you were taught in skool, this is effective economics.

Keep working, stop paying.
We trade my work for yours on an honor system enforced by our neighbors in a nonviolent way.
What that looks like will be up to the various groupings, and I would presume, would standardize over much of the planet.
We learn what the best practices are, and do them.

But, as long as it is acceptable to rule by force, reason will not prevail, force will.
Best practices will be to keep your mouth shut and go along to get along.

I don't see that as a sustainable model for managing societies.

Without the hdf there would be no funds for the development of the chain.
Perhaps some would give, but most would dump as fast as they can and give nothing to those that made this all possible.
I don't begrudge the coders their pound of hive, without them none of this is here, but, they have to come off momma's teat at some point.

If the hbd stabilizer makes enough money that authors can have their 10% back, I am all for it.
I think the fund has plenty of money right now, but I don't know what all is left to finalize on the chain.
We are nearly economically viable as an ecosystem, and eliminating the poor tax will go a long ways towards demonstrating how attractive what we have here really is.
If we can get a 1000mv upper voting limit we will have reached egalitarianism, mostly.

Hf25 will give us more influence on the peg, eliminate the poor tax on all those that can't give a 16hive vote, and the sooner it gets here the better, iyam.

I find myself marginally more interested in picking out the contents from under my finger nails, than pissing in the wind...

Option 1.

HBD Stabilizer is a great initiative and I love what the witnesses are doing!

option 5.

Stabilizer might be effective, but I do not see the need for it.

Oooh! This is a good one! Thanks man

Option 3.

HBD Stabilizer isn't something I care about or have info on!

Lol I'll go with this one, if your bidding up a stable coin and allowing me to get 2 to 1 returns why not let us rek whoever is on the other side of the trade! Free market rules

Thanks for your input man!

I have been in HIVE for a month and a half or something like that and there was some information to process at this time. Now they want to make other changes...some tokens on the market go from almost 400% to something like -80%...some people are making huge profits while others seem to work a lot for a little number of HIVES...It's CHAOS. Considering the same content of two posts in HIVE, the one authored by a user with lots of HP and HBD will make huge profits as compared with a user that makes small profits. So, I might think that this is the overall philosophy in Hive: to help some people acquire huge profits to the detriment of others. Still, I am not that informed to choose a league and I have no intention to get informed at the moment...the more you know, the more you might need to vomit 🤣

It all boils down to if a large stake holder has you on auto vote or votes you..

Some users with million HP have votes that can cast Biiig numbers.. Majority of users votes is less than a cent.

Crypto is super unpredictable on a good day and chaos like you said on a bad one. :P

i see why it would be useful to have stable HBD. with the current situation i don't see it happening. as it was said week + ago throwing everything at it for a week or 2 looked ok, but doing it for months + i don't know.

your leasing proposal has ended?

The leasing proposal is over, yes. It was around 74% funded or so.

I agree with you that the HBD peg is unlikely given it's implementation has shown over the hears to be less than performant price peg wise than what a "stable" asset should be.

I have yet to see any definitive proof of HBD stabilizer working sadly. As you said trying it for a week or two is one thing.. But for months? The repetition of something that isn't working alludes to the price peg not being the driving factor behind this set of actions.

i would not say it is not working, it is just not working good enough :D

i am also not smart enough to see how would big stakeholders benefit directly from the actions. (i see how would they benefit from hive price going up) and i never checked but most probably have a decent amount of HBD so in the short run they would probably benefit more from just letting the price pump and selling it. I know blocktrades mentioned on the clowns post that if this does not work in few weeks he is considering the option of leasing the HBD he owns and dropping the exes proposals for stabilizing. So i think he has some amount of hbd

Why not https://dpoll.io/ ???

lol, I forget this exists everytime. <_<

They want your active key tho...

Ehhh.. yeah I'd previously used them.. then removed their access.

I can't remember who runs it sadly so not keen on giving them the keys to my front door.

@emrebeyler runs it and IIRC it uses hivesigner w posting auth.

yeah, dpoll doesnt store any keys. 🤷‍♂️ We're not also very keen to have any keys. Feelings are mutual.

God I feel this.

Ah, Yeah he is a long time dev group member and from what I know is good people.

Thanks for info

I mentioned this in the chat, and I don't know if you picked it up: Beyond the short term term, loading the barrels of the DHF while it's raining money might make stakeholders more willing to liberally spend on development.

Interesting take on it. I'd briefly considered this as the cause behind it all.. But any wealth potentially accumulated by this course of action could be completely wiped given a bit of market support receding or if some dormant large stake holder decides to say fuck it and take us down some significant price percentage.

That would be fucking cool if this ends up resulting in more projects being supported via DHF in the future, in fact that is the best outcome possible from this.. But it's entirely up to the top tiers to make this happen, and frankly I'm completely unsure if the development community is going to wait around in hopes of future support or migrate to more active communities.

Hard to say.. Either way it seems teh course followed currently is a gamble of sorts, or perhaps a test of the community to see exactly what actions can be taken before you see mass exodus. I don't honestly know, nor did when I was talking with the top tiers receive their Occams Razor justification behind it other than: "HBD is overpriced, HIVE holders (largest stake holders) should benefit from this rather than the ecosystem builders"..

Stabilizer could have been multiple developers following the exact same market pumping path effectivelyt doing Stabilizers job while also retaining your developer support.. But ultimately it boils down to the ability to govern what happens not resting with the community.. And that is the part that ultimately lead me to this thought experiment..

Also that is a hell of a gamble on a "might" effect which ultimately may never happen. :(

It's been my observation that in the past few months, stakeholders have been more willing to fund projects and take chances with proposals. And spending has been more liberal. With a higher supply, I think the door is wider now.

option 5.

Stabilizer might be effective, but I do not see the need for it.

We need to find long term solution and not short term fix.

@urun have an interesting idea for this and he said he already proposed to our HIVE elites

Option 2, It is an idea that I cant even wrap my head around, there should be more priority into projects that create more Hive exposure for mainstream adoption.

Option 2. HBD stabilizer in a nutshell.

It boils down to the "elite" class being able to dictate who gets money in the community and who doesn't, simply out of the fact their vote weight is untouchable and ultimately is greater than the rest of the community combined.

Facts are fun !

Fun perhaps, demoralizing perhaps.

About the only way I can see this balance of power being tipped on it's head is if some extremely successful business pops up on HIVE and is able to power up a large percentage of it's earnings.

I don't see it happening myself.
(my mate - worth tens of millions and as sharp as fuck , wouldn't touch this place - and she looked very closely, at it.)

Oh for sure. In it's current state anyone who does a deep dive after having the thought of putting money in is likely to find some reason not to, Be that being provided by the politics or the stake distribution or what have you. It's not particularily attractive to outsiders looking in.. That is why I'm trying to "shake the boat" in order to bring attention to those at the top of this food chain that "Hey, community and greater ecosystem aren't diggin' X" before this network ends up a ghost town hobbyist project.

Oligarchy + a preferred sycophancy entourage to support them = the death of any ecosystem that I've looked at in, oh...the last 2,000 years or so...

lol. That made me giggle a wee bit. Thank you for that. Unsure if you intended this to be humorous but I found it funny.
Likely funny because it's true.

I mean, time will tell if this is the case I believe. I'm not one to condemn a place or group without adequate time to see what actions or reactions take place after I've made any potential injustice or issues quite apparent to those in question.

...tragic comedy always hits the spot! lol

It's not a condemnation, either - it's an observation of an ecosystems dynamics, and how they play out.