Different teams with different goals for the future of Steem

in #steemlast year (edited)

I haven't been writing much, have been feeling pretty ill, have been refreshing twitter a bit too much in all this Corona drama too, but lucky for me I also follow all the die-hard #steem tweeps which is why I got notified of the (in a way long awaited) @blocktrades post yesterday.

First appeared in this post

Today I tuned in on PALnet's Town Hall which was meant to be for people to blow off some Steam, talk about 'Hive' which seems to be the name for the new chain, talk about Corona (but this wasn't the main topic), it all started slow, I tuned out, then David tuned in, and I listened a bit more again.

David, for those that don't know, is teasingly called 'Roy 2', a reference to the Roy that accompanied Justin in the first talks members of the community had after the 'take over', which so far has brought us nowhere. David, however, claims to be a personal friend of Justin and therefore have some leverage with him. Also, he's working 80 hours a week (his words) to try and resolve the current stalemate and gives through his words the impression he is on 'the good side', understanding the severity of the situation, really wanting to help 'save Steem', and today even claiming he's making some progress. Which should turn into 'actions' within the next 24-48 hours.

(This he called 'I'd rather underpromise and overdeliver', just FYI for people who are refreshing steemd.com to see if we are losing some of those hated sock puppets.)

All in all a lot is happening and I see three big 'movements' currently, which I wanted to write down for those who feel out of the loop. Again, I'm pretty tired and ill, so I will just write, not my usual well-quoted and screenshotted type of post, but I will refer to articles or steemd.com if you want to research more yourself.

Team 1: Justin + 'Community witnesses'

Justin is still buying STEEM. The first STEEM that turned back into liquid on Binance after they started their powerdown basically entered the Steem blockchain via the @hkdev404 account, which is Justin's (he even comfirmed that on twitter now), and is voting on all the sock puppets. Millions of STEEM is now voting on Sock Puppets.

Worse than that: a few 'Sock Puppets' have now been unvoted and instead Justin has voted in 'new community witnesses'. These are basically legit people (like triple.aaa), but that were not witnesses before, now starting to run a node and getting a basically immediate vote from Justin aka @hkdev404. (Check steemd.com to see everything this account has been doing so far.)

Voting in 'community witnesses' and unvoting 'Sock Puppets' fits his narrative that he tries to push: that he is willing to give governance back to 'The Steem Community' - but ofcourse we know these 'new community witnesses' have never been here for us when our chain needed a HardFork, when our chain froze, basically have never added a 'witness-y' thing to Steem, but thanks to huge and otherwise inexplicable votes are now suddenly one of our 20 top representatives.

Team 2: @blocktrades and a new chain called Hive

Yes, this is his personal post about that topic, he doesn't see a future in communicating with Justin, wants a more decentralized Steem without the 'poisoned' and controversial Ninja-mined stake, and is developing a split from our current Steem chain which will be a separate/new chain called Hive (this at least is what is mentioned in the comment section).

This chain will be here soon enough, we will all receive an airdrop, an exact copy of our current wallets, including poweredup & liquid STEEM and SBD.

This new chain is being supported by a few community members who show themselves in the comment section. It's also note-worthy that they will probably have more developers from day 1 than Steem now has, as all Steemit, Inc devs have resigned. (And might join the new chain?)

Details still have to follow, but it's clear: Team 2 is working on a new chain where the community is hoped to be, (including all or many major dApps and devs) so that Justin and Steem are left with nothing but an inactive chain and some Sock puppets.

(Yes I could write more nuanced sentences but again, I'm not in a perfect writing mood today.)

Team 3: Those fighting to keep the current Steem together

The last team is the team that still is fighting to keep Steem together. This is 'led' by David now it seems, who took, according to his own words, a risk yesterday by pulling @starkerz and @theycallmedan in a call with Justin, which, again according to him, led to some new insights. He suggested this should be turned into actions from Justin's side in the next 24-48 hours. There's a few more people who are still willing to work and talk with Justin to see this thing get resolved and keep our Steem chain as we know it.

Or, maybe, when Justin has shown that he can be reasoned with, even some more permanent changes to this chain in the form of a promise (although coded and irreversible) to not meddle in governance.

Which team will be your future?

This post was mostly meant to provide an overview of what I feel is the current state of things. When I first read @blocktrades post yesterday I felt like this must mean we were all going to move. But today I also feel there's still people who are not yet ready to move.

I personally believe that a 'new chain' only works if we all indeed move to that chain, have all activity and dApps there. But we'll have to see who is going to commit to that chain. For example: which witnesses will run nodes on both chains, which will turn off their Steem nodes, and which witnesses will be even solely pledged to 'Hive'? Which community members will move chains, which will use both, and, which new users will the new chain attract?

In the next few hours (not sure if I'll still be awake then) a post with the details of the fork will be announced, when that's done I'll update my post. It's supposed to even contain the logo of the new chain, so we can start speculating about it and make artwork, memes, shareable material.

I'm not yet sure about anything right now, I'm a 'look the cat out of the tree' kinda person, all in all, when we look back at this moment in 5 years time, I expect we will see this as a very defining moment. Will the community stick together? Will the community split? Will the hated 'Ninja-mined stake' and the fact the new chain gets rid of it prove to be the best thing that ever happened to us? Will Justin suddenly make a move (positive or negative) that will make us all revisit everything we thought we new, again?

Exciting times, just keep informed. It's your (emotional) investment too, and you're allowed to have some feelings about all that is happening now. Just keep it civil and pleasant and share your ideas. Who knows, someone might just hear you :-)


As promised, an update when the Hive announcement post was published: Announcing the Launch of Hive Blockchain


Team 4: Those of us caught in the crossfire.

Kind of hard to make a decision when you're being shot at from every direction. Not all shots hurt, of course. Some sting. Some could have long lasting consequences. Positive or negative. When it's all coming at you at once though, it's kinda hard to know which ones to dodge.

All I can do is watch right now. If I could do more than that, I'd do more than that.

Yes - Team 4 is having a hard time. We have to wait and trust people to make the right decisions and provide us with a future we want to be a part of. I'm definitely hoping I will find that place. I've been forced to move houses before and I must say sometimes I didn't know I was going to get something that was really suitable for me until I had lived there for a few months.

Anyway, I'm sure you'll create some artwork on Hives and Bees and Honey and such at some point <3

I was pushed out onto the streets once in my life, and not for lack of effort. Everything around me simply fell apart. I couldn't stop it.

I'll be where I belong.

Everything around me simply fell apart. I couldn't stop it.

I've heard stories that started with 'I forgot to pay one (!) bill' that ended like that.

I'll be where I belong.

Me too :-)

I am with you there, I just lie back and watch, right now I am more worried about the lock down I am in and my not being able to even go out my gate. Whatever happens here will happen, there is really not much that I can do. I will decide what to do when things seem more clear.

Here's a sneak peak: http://hive.io/

Yikes, typo on the about page for "Ressource," sigh

Lol, when I posted the URL it was still empty, but YES it's a website now! Here's the post: https://steempeak.com/communityfork/@hiveio/announcing-the-launch-of-hive-blockchain

Ooo, will have a look! Cheers lass!!

Thank you for summing it up like this. I honestly haven't been paying attention to all the details, but it's nice to get the notes. I'm not making any choices yet. Hope everyone can find a way to work together.

Feel better, my friend!

Thanks! I have been a bit out of the loop as well, at some point everyone was just yelling at twitter and I tuned out. This is what I felt was happening after 2 hours on Steem today :D But you never know, maybe there's another team working behind the scenes on an even different plan.

When all things are in place I think it will show where the place is that feels most like 'home', the place we feel we built and cherish. That place might have a different look and feel, but there's probably that magical thing that makes it 'like Steem'.

We'll see. Hugs!

What a crazy time we've been living in....

Really does seem like a movie. I hope whatever happens, this community sticks together and keeps building a better internet....That was the vision for so many before this started.

Yes. I'll be at the place that tries to achieve that. From what I can see now that place might not be called Steem anymore. Exciting times, and something to look back on in a few months or years time. Hope it turned out to be good for all of us.

I hope you are feeling better!

I personally believe that a 'new chain' only works if we all indeed move to that chain, have all activity and dApps there.

That's the only sure thing and I really hope that this would be the case or else we might end up with two crippled chains.

I don't really want to move, but will go where the community is. I am definitely not going to stay anywhere where the chain is centralised, or has no decent devs. Starting a witness node and coding a development hardfork are two different things.

I don't really want to move either, but hey, if you have a lovely house and then someone decides to block the view buy building a skyscraper in front of it suddenly your lovely house might start feeling a lot less like home, even though much of it stayed the same.

I'm definitely in mourning. I hope I will feel celebrative in a few weeks time when I see how everything comes together.

Who knows, perhaps @theycallmedan and @starkerz will pull off a miracle - but I am not sure what condition the community would be in to accept terms with Justin Sun now.

i don't know why but i feel it is to late for that. he had a month to do something positive, and there were a lot of options where he would earn money and community would be ok with it. if he just came out today and said i am giving 50% of the stake to SPS i would still feel blah.

Yep, I agree. It is going to be interesting to watch it all unfold though. Steem isn't dead, just as we know it.


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That's the thing, I feel a naive hope we can 'stay on Steem' but I can't see how that could be achieved, it seems too much damage was done.

Here's hoping

Great article. Get well fast @soyrosa ❤❤❤❤

Thanks a lot @yogajill! <3 Hope you feel well :-)

If this is what you come up with when you're "not in a perfect writing mood" then the rest of us should stop bothering to write at all! 😉 😆

Seriously, this is a clear & excellent (unlike the situation) summation of the latest developments. My gut tells me that as much as we'd like to save our current Steem home, I don't see the leopard changing his spots any time soon. One thing is for certain - the witnesses, devs, and community members involved in this have been truly inspirational with their work & commitment, and I had no doubt they'll find the best path forward.

Hope you get some good rest, and feel better soon @soyrosa! 🤗

A couple of things I know for sure: Ned is no longer here. Justin would really like to be here, but he's not really here, either. Both of those seem to be really good right this minute.

The Ninja Mined Stake has been the biggest economic drag on the whole system since day one. Even the inept Ned and the pushy Justin can't compete.

In all truth, I'm going to go where you go. You are about the most reasoned voice I know and I'm just positive we'll end up in the same general area.

Now I have one more question. Will Hive (or what ever the front end is called) allow for links to open in a new window? I really mess up the back arrow thingie on a regular basis, including when I clicked your hive preview.

I don't want to be anywhere where Justin is. Many westerners still don't understand how evil the CCP can be and the type of dirty tricks they can get up to, so please don't be fooled by any gestures you may see.

Finally someone who dares to say it! I'm not sure if the CCP is in it but I'm damn sure Justin has no good intentions! I've had this feeling from day one, since the famous AMA in which he looked like dropped from the moon. Many have said the acquisition has been leaked and that's why he was so unprepared, knew very little about the ecosystem, the community and Steem in general.
I had a different opinion but kept it to myself. He knew nothing about us and the chain because he had no plan with us, other than to destroy us and the stunts he has pulled confirm my suspicions.

Great summary of the current situation. My first reaction was pure excitement but now nostalgia is kicking in... Leaving Steem for a new place will probably be harder than I thought but I am ready to go. As a devoted minimalist, I don´t even have much stuff to pack :)

Get well soon Rosa, being ill these days is not very cool.

No one gets to make me choose. I'll pick after I see how each team performs under the current situation.

Not all that optimistic about any of these teams, but they all have something good. Some thoughts.

  1. After the EIP being voted in by the old bunch of witnesses, I don't feel giving a new set of community witnesses a try at things would be a bad idea.
  2. Forking out ninja mined stake seems long overdue, so yeah that part is great.
  3. Targeting specific accounts doesn' t really address the reputation that STEEM being a ninja mined shitcoin will spill into the new fork. Rebase + replay is the only real way to do an airdrop that would truly erase ninja mined stake in the new chain.
  4. In the end, I think for me, non of the above will end up being decisive as I' ll probably just move wherever steem-engine decides to make its home.

Hello @soryrosa , I wanted to thank you for this post, because it speaks the truth with all situation observed.

If STEEM had a success, I believe it was thanks to its community and the people within the community who felt inspired enough to create something, some new service to the community.

I, for one, observe in the situations you described above, that some moves are political, whereas others are "from the heart". Not from the ego, but inspired by the will of removing "ill intent" from the chain and be clean of political power.

Now, I don't think anything "absolutely bad" of a given team, I think we are among contributors, creators, innovative entrepreneurs in all this. Sun disregarded answering to the requests of the community early one and made some very bad moves. I think he had some chance to fix this but could not, it went too badly. Yet all these people could be people I admire (well, minus some mistakes I disapprove strongly).

However, there is political power on one side, joined by people betraying the ones who did so much service, and this is something... I don't know, I feel it's bad. Like, absolutely bad.

What is important when something bad happens is the degree of resistance you put against it. This is what can define an "equilibrium", a "balance", making it so that "bad moves" are costly, so they are not scalable and we have some "great places of freedom". In STEEM the balance will be hard to maintain after this event. This event is the show of resistance.

I have been using STEEM "only" for one year. I used the services that all others made, which have low cost. I have seen the steemit employees resign in just a few days. I stand with the ones who made all these services because I already know what their heart is made of.

This is how I resist, and help to define a rightful balance, where "bad moves" are costly. I am joining HIVE with my project because this is how resistance can be shown by human people.

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