Good day Good folks.
This post is (in part) a reply to a comment by @ freecompliments in a thread about Downvoting & Blacklisting by Hivewatchers within the Free Compliments community (in particular). i decided to turn what started as a comment reply into a post as my reply became lengthy and i think there is value to more people seeing it.
If a user has been "scamming" the reward pool for a while (using AI without attribution, copy/pasting/paigarism etc.) then gets caught, i think perhaps there IS good reason to continue downvoting for a while, ie. to recover all those previous rewards which were illicitly farmed.
i saw a screenshot you made with @ hivewatchers telling someone what they needed to do to get off the blacklist. It was something like:
Get down on your knees and beg forgiveness and post a decent post every day for 30 days burning all the rewards. i paraphrased that somewhat :-)
My first thought was; **ok that, if it were me i would just quit Hive. But then i thought about it for a while. Yes, why not ask the offender to make good & return those rewards illicitly received to the reward pool by burning. And/or downvotes on future posts as mentioned above.
Of course it's good to give sone leeway for first offenders, but if they are ignoring the guidelines they get initially from @ brittandjosie, and others who welcome newbies with many guides, and ignoring comments made by hivewatchers & hivers who catch them out and give warning, then i think it's good they make retribution or are downvoted until they quit.
i'll leave it at that for now. There are some finer points and intricacies i've not mentioned & i think you've not seen. i do see however Irfans most recent post was more real, about his garden, so he has started following guidance generously offered by some community members. However i also sensed he was still not accepting responsibility but still blaming hivewatchers with the way he said something like "i hope this is now acceptable". If you dive back into the threads you may see some of these finer points.
Very briefly, and i'll talk more about this later, our methods if communication result in the way we are treated.
Be aware, take a few deep breaths: Potential triggers inbound, with giid intention behind them:
i have observed (what i consider to be) several assumptions/judgements/blame and use of ad hominems in the way you have spoken about hivewatchers, what would be called Violent Communication in the language of Non Violent Communication (NVC https://www.cnvc.org/) by Marshall Rosenberg.
Not to say that similar didn't come first from Hivewatchers, idk. But an eye for and eye makes the while world blind.
Let's always remember The Golden Rule.
i do not claim to be perfect by the way, i am most certainly not always communicating consciously, in fact just this week i found myself shouting at someone. Man oh Man! i did apologise very soon afterwards, and posted a thread about it. And i told a couple of my family members about what happened, my confession i guess, and reaching out for support.
Anyway, back to the issues with HiveWatchers, and yes, there are some issues which could perhaps be resolved, but i think their systems need considerably improving. And whether the $350 per day for the DHF proposal is justifiable, i doubt it, but unless they are transparent i guess it's a judgement call.
Someone doesn't think so:
A couple of hours ago i started a threadcast to discuss ideas and thoughts about starting a Community Driven equivalent to HiveWatchers, which for now i've named Hive Clean Team.
Here's the link to the threadcast: https://inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-xfxhsjr7
Image Souce (adapted from) https://candia.sau15.net/2016/04/07/team-up-to-clean-up/
The threadcast is text only (threads, not a live video), but it is live now and i'll be there to answer questions and discuss ideas for the next 6-7 hours or more (it's now 1530 hrs 1st January 2024) and i'll be watching out for any replies for next couple of days. Please Join & have your say.
If you would like to help get this off the ground (and possibly even get a part time or even full time #job out of it), then join in and help it happen.
And share with your friends, in your threads / Dbuzz and/or waves feed.
https://inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-xfxhsjr7
Thanks for reading,
Peace & Love
Atma
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
I guess the threadcast is already closed as the time window passed by, regardless I wanted to react, so I'll do it here.
Personally I am 100% sure we need something like Hivewatchers policing the chain as I don't think people should earn (big) rewards for posting for example ai content. BUT I think you're hitting the nail on the right side about transparency. Now I see posts being downvoted without any explanations while I see other people with relatively high reputations 'abuse' the reward system without any problems.
I think the difficulty though would lie in having 'clear rules' as you already mentioned as well. It's a very subjective matter, what shouldn't be tolerated? Ai generated posts? Automated posts / giveaways? Plagiarism? Giveaways of tokens worth $0,00001?
I think we, as the total hive community, should have a global vision on this theme which is nearly impossible because its subjective characteristics.
I checked the threadcast and if I'm right, there were only a couple of reactions (so far), which is a pity as this is such an important, atleast in my eyes, topic for all of us involved with hive.
I would be glad to think with you about how to fulfill the #hivecleanteam in a more transparent and/ or more complementary way to Hivewatchers.
Will definitely try to keep up to date with this topic!
The threadcast is still open by the way brother. i get notified of any replies. i think it's a good place to consolidate any discussion regarding the #Hivewatchers / #CleanTeam discussion. In general new comments under posts like this get missed by people who have already read the post (unless they bookmark it with ecency as they will then receive notification off all new comments).
Yes, giveaway tokens are something to consider, as to whether or not they are just for farming the reward pool or actually have a good use-case & bring value to the Hive ecosystem (digital).
i totally agree that a system like Hivewatchers is necessary to keep the blockchain "clean".
So, it would be great to have a post which is kept updated with "clear rules" which are agreed upon by consensus. i invite you to join the ongoing discussion (mostly just me talking to myself at the moment :-).
The consensus process itself is also a further topic for discussion which i would have a lot to contribute, in particular about how a Trusted reputation needs to be part of a consensus mechanism.
Thanks lots for your response
Potential Terms to add to Leo Glossary: - @taskmaster4450
Glossary, LeoGlossary, HiveWatchers, Status Quo, Ecency, Trusted Reputation
Misinterpreted the " I'll be active in the threadcast for several hours" as it would have been closed down later on, my bad 🙈
Will check it out / interact where I can!
Unfortunately many people reply to the comments instead of making new comment in the threadcast which makes it more difficult to read everyone's input.
Following is all #feedback for LeoDevs, particularly for @khaleelkazi - It would be very good if a warning message (like the current one when posting a link in threads) could appear when users attempt to reply to a thread in a threadcast instead of at the top level.
Something like
i made that mistake the first time i joined a threadcast and could not see them appear, so tried again a couple of times (then got ticked off by taskmaster4450 for spamming :-)
if you take a look at this threadcast you'll see what i mean, so many replies are buried (and it's very difficult for me to read them all & try to repost them at the top level to make them visible):
Note (another issue) : the reason i put the link in both clear text and a link is because (as you can see in root post above) in Inleo UI you can see multiple copies of the link preview if the link is posted multiple times. AND users who see the link preview often don't realise it is actually clickable to take them to the threadcast.
Copy & Paste into new browser tab this Clear Link:
inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-2mfwkpzlv
Or
Click the hyperlink or image whichever one that appears directly under this sentence:
https://inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-2mfwkpzlv
I definitely agree with the given feedback, was trying to read the threadcast, not that easy 😅
You bring up some very salient points here, and I do appreciate that you posted this publicly for further evaluation (not to mention visibility). I'll certainly go into more detail on certain things, but I'm just leaving this comment here for now to acknowledge that I did read this post in full, and I'll expand further, as it's sort of late here now.
Thanks brother. i noticed you hadn't replied and was hoping i hadn't upset you :-)
Note that i actually prepared the post about a week ago but left it in drafts. When i finally got back to it i searched for but couldn't find a couple of your particular replies/comments to hivewatchers to which i was referring. i did come across a couple of older posts of yours in the community where you were asking for input/votes (and i answered one albeit late). i will pay more attention to the notifications i receive when you mention me in future.
Sat Nam
HiveWatchers (in general) is an incredibly nuanced topic that will require equally nuanced discussion.
Personally I am super unsure on how I feel (or even what I think) about it all... but that said... this blockchain would have way more problems without them than it does with them.
Keep up the candor... it helps in all forms of communication both internal and external.
Happy New Year to you and yours!
Thanks brother.
Yes, i agree that we certainly need some "policing" (for want of a better term) on-chain. i think that policing needs to be done in a clear and transparent way, with clear policies and procedures made (voted upon by the community) and for communication to Bee Kind.
Happy New Year to you
Some free Hive-engine tokens for you:
!PGM !PIZZA !LOL !DHEDGE !LUV
Agreed on the need for transparency and kindness.
Many folks fail to account for the fact that HiveWatchers was formed very rapidly during 'war time' after the hard fork that created Hive and while the methods are not 'awesome' they work and have worked ever since it started.
Just putting that out there and am not defending said methods... nor frowning upon them. It is simply an observation that I think is often omitted (overlooked) during the discussion about them.
BUY AND STAKE THE PGM TO SEND A LOT OF TOKENS!
The tokens that the command sends are: 0.1 PGM-0.1 LVL-0.1 THGAMING-0.05 DEC-15 SBT-1 STARBITS-[0.00000001 BTC (SWAP.BTC) only if you have 2500 PGM in stake or more ]
5000 PGM IN STAKE = 2x rewards!
Discord
Support the curation account @ pgm-curator with a delegation 10 HP - 50 HP - 100 HP - 500 HP - 1000 HP
Get potential votes from @ pgm-curator by paying in PGM, here is a guide
I'm a bot, if you want a hand ask @ zottone444
Being here on the blockchain for a couple of years already, I am aware of the existence of Hivewatchers. Being a casual observer, I know that what they are doing is important to the Hive ecosystem as some sort of hindrance to plagiarism and copyright issues. I haven't really followed them closely enough to comment on the inner workings and how to improve methodology and other specifics about issues related to them or the topic. Though I'm not sure how, I am open to help out in whatever capacity I can as an individual account holder here on Hive for the improvement of the platform. !PIZZA 🍕
Thanks for replying brother. To help out it would be great if you would join the ongoing text only threadcast and ask questions/make suggestions about particular points which need defining/clarifying for posting guidelines.
To get directly to the Hivewatchers/CleanTeam Threadcast:
Copy & Paste into new browser tab this Clear Link:
inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-2mfwkpzlv
Or
Click the hyperlink or image whichever one that appears directly under this sentence:
https://inleo.io/threads/view/atma.love/re-leothreads-2mfwkpzlv
!LUV !PIZZA !PGM !DHEDGE
BUY AND STAKE THE PGM TO SEND A LOT OF TOKENS!
The tokens that the command sends are: 0.1 PGM-0.1 LVL-0.1 THGAMING-0.05 DEC-15 SBT-1 STARBITS-[0.00000001 BTC (SWAP.BTC) only if you have 2500 PGM in stake or more ]
5000 PGM IN STAKE = 2x rewards!
Discord
Support the curation account @ pgm-curator with a delegation 10 HP - 50 HP - 100 HP - 500 HP - 1000 HP
Get potential votes from @ pgm-curator by paying in PGM, here is a guide
I'm a bot, if you want a hand ask @ zottone444
juanvegetarian, atma.love sent you LUV. 🙂 (1/3) tools | trade | connect | daily
Made with LUV by crrdlx.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
@atma.love(2/15) tipped @juanvegetarian
juanvegetarian tipped atma.love
atma.love tipped jacobpeacock
!DHEDGE
you have 0.0 vote calls available today, your vote calls will reset at next snapshot. You can buy DHEDGE on Tribaldex or earn some daily by joining one of our many delegation pools at app.dhedge.cc to increase your daily amount.