Please sell the bottom bro, please.
I have been triggered hard once again!
As @taskmaster4450 and I can attest, there are a wave of users on Hive who believe that governing economic policy should be based on feelings and popularity contests. Why cite actual on-chain data to back up the theories being presented when you can just make shit up and talk out your ass?
Getting into the head of someone who wants to lower HBD yield.
In order to truly understand an argument one must put themselves into the shoes of their opponents. Luckily this is pretty easy to do considering all the arguments being made don't require any research or data to back them up. All we have to do is feel the feelz. Are you feeling the feelz? I'm feeling them!
Feelz Numero Uno: Hive is down bad; can devs do something?
Ouch this hurts and I'm uncomfortable.
Hive crashed over 90% from $3+ to 25 cents.
It's not fair that I only earn 10% APR on HP and HBD gets 20%.
20% is obviously not sustainable because competition offers less.
But I've already been over this a dozen times.
These arguments are not based in reality. If someone actually thought 20% yield on HBD was totally "unfair" then those people would be begrudgingly holding HBD while they complained about it. What do we see instead? None of these people are holding HBD. It's the most unfair tilted deal ever yet nobody is taking it? Make it make sense.
Please bro please, make number go up.
The simple truth of the matter
Hive holders want number to go up, and they think by lowering debt exposure their bags will increase in value. Unfortunately that's not how it works. If these people get what they want they're going to fuck up the economy and nosedive their own assets. In fact this is the same exact reason why we see so many people flirt with the idea of removing the reward pool entirely (an even worse idea that I have also talked about a dozen times).
Show me what number Hive would have crashed to without yield
There seems to be this overwhelming irrational consensus that if Hive did not offer 20% yields during the bear market then the price of Hive would forged a higher low than 25 cents. Do these people have access to an alternate dimension that proves this? Nope, just talking out your ass again? Very cool.
This is an insanely frustrating argument to even consider because anyone with half a brain can look at the chart and see that THIS COMMUNITY'S TOKEN HAS ALWAYS BOTTOMED OUT AT 10 CENTS. Hive posted a local low 150% higher than the previous local low and nobody considers that without the 20% yields that's exactly where we could have ended up this time around as well. It's maddening.
Please bro, printer go brrr bro.
When it really comes down to it this is all Bitcoin's fault. This entire ideology stems from the fact that Bitcoin is deflationary and has seen massive success, so of course every token should be deflationary by default. Correlation is not causation. Bitcoin is successful for a lot of reasons. Inflation is a double edged sword. Inflation is an investment. Investments can either succeed or fail. Bitcoin's only investment is security. Is this a good policy? Debatable.
Inflation as a measurement of growth.
Do you believe that demand for HBD can increase by 20% a year? Of course you do. Everyone does. Anyone who tries to make an argument to the contrary would look like a complete idiot. In what universe can Bitcoin grow by 100% per year and HBD can't pull out an easy 20%?
The point being here is the thing that @taskmaster4450 and I are going to tell you over and over and over and over and over again into the crowd of LALALALALALALALALA IM NOT LISTENING. If HBD can grow 20% a year then we never have to pay back the 20% debt we are printing. If we get more than 20% growth then the inflation of Hive goes down.
All of the on-chain data available shows that 20% yields on Hive have outperformed all expectations. Thanks to @dalz for such valuable insight. Hive's inflation hasn't gone up at all. Look at the area under the curve. We are printing less money than expected. This is a year's worth of data.
Not only that, the bear market years are supposed to suck liquidity out of crypto. HBD hasn't had any liquidity sucked out of it at all. Simply the fact that we traded flat and still have the same amount of HBD in circulation is an insane triumph and points to the fact that these yields can indeed be used to create elasticity of debt, which is something that nobody else has ever done in crypto. It's a huge deal.
Now we are approaching the raging bull market years of the cycle and users want to chicken out at the last second and rug-pull interest rates. Terrible idea: stop trying to sell the bottom. I'm so over it. Do you think that 30 cents is a good price to sell Hive? Do you really?
Creating debt is going long; removing debt is deleveraging.
Lowering HBD yields right now means you want to sell Hive at 30 cents. You think the network paying back its debt at the literal lows is a good idea. You've capitulated, right when shit was getting crazy and Bitcoin is about to make all time highs. You want to sell right before we get an alt market? It's embarrassing, and yet somehow perfectly on par with how people trade these markets on a personal level.
Isn't it painfully obvious that creating debt and flooding the market with easy money is exactly the thing we want to be doing during a recession? It's trading 101. Buy low and sell high. Everyone who wants to lower HBD yields is like yeah but hear me out what if we sell the bottom instead! Huh! Good idea amirite? And the crazy thing is that they don't even understand this is what they are doing.
Hive has debt.
And we should pay that debt back when the collateral for that debt is worth a lot of money. When HBD gets converted for Hive, we don't want to give that user 3 Hive for 1 HBD. We want to print at least less than 1 Hive for 1 HBD, which means the HIVE price needs to get higher than $1 or at least hit dollar parity. That's a great time to be talking about slowly lowering the rate. Not at fucking 30 cents like a frightened pleb looking to sell the bottom like a chump.
How do we stop users from converting their HBD into Hive?
We give them reasons to hold it. There are many reasons to hold HBD. 20% yield is one of them. Lowering the yield implies you want to lower demand to hold HBD, and thus convert more HBD into Hive to pay back debt. Why are we trying to pay back our debt at the lows? Just wait one year. It's not hard. The bull market is preprogrammed in at this point and there are a million badass projects on Hive that will go online before that. Do-nothing is the best option.
I'm so fucking over this whole discussion that I just now, while writing this, changed the @hextech witness to signal 21% APR on HBD. @town-hall and @l337m45732 should follow in my footsteps and do the same, because this is ridiculous. I'm really putting myself out here on this one. I'm the only witness on the entire network signaling for an APR higher than 20%.
I could lose votes over this, but the hope is that I can convince (or simply represent) others that this is the way to go. Stop being afraid of these yields at the literal worst time to be afraid of them. The market vampire is in your head. Stop trying to sell the pico lows. It's not a good look.
The ultimate metric: the debt ratio.
Hive's debt ratio has been crab-walking in the 5%-7% range for literal years. When you think about the fact that the token price collapsed by over 90% in the bear market: this is absolutely insane and quite incredible.
There's no fucking way our debt ratio should, not only be that low, but also stable at the same time. Again, every on-chain indicator tells us there are zero red-flags with 20% yields. I've been arguing this point for many months and not a single person has been able to present one shred of evidence to the contrary. You do not have the right to lord over economic policy like it's a popularity contest; get over yourself. I don't care if it's "not fair". Stop acting like the deal isn't being offered to you. It's absurd.
I hate democracy.
This is one of the big reasons I'm so bullish on Hive and the underlying governance model. I know for a fact that I can't change the mob's mind on topics like this, but I can change the minds of the people who actually run the network and have something to lose. There's a reason why direct democracy doesn't work, and it's because it puts the average person in charge of things that should be controlled by the experts of that particular field.
Economic policy is an extremely sensitive and complicated line of work. You change one thing because it "sounds right" and it can have the opposite of the intended affect or domino-effect other policies that were not even considered at the time. There has to be a very good reason to change policies like this simply due to the fact that manipulating economic policy on a whim makes us look completely incompetent to outsiders. Diminishing returns are high and we need to be sure.
Conclusion
Am I making much ado about nothing? It's possible. Only 3 consensus witnesses are actually signaling for yields below 15%, and two of those are 12%. All of these options are extremely competitive when looking at what's being offered elsewhere. They are all very good yields from the endpoint user perspective.
However, that doesn't really matter. The people in charge of economic policy need to understand the economic policy they're in charge of. It doesn't matter if they get it right on accident. A broken clock is right twice a day. When I hear about the false reasoning behind these decisions with absolutely no data to back them up I get extremely nervous. And it prompts me to make posts like this one.
It's very simple: Hive does not want to pay back its debt when the price of Hive is low. The only way to justify such an action means to admit that this entire experiment was a failure and we need to capitulate at the bottom and become distressed sellers so that it doesn't cripple us even worse. However, we already know this isn't true.
We can see the data. We can see that Hive isn't being printed. We can see the debt ratio is low & stable. We can understand that a growth rate of 20% per year is not unreasonable within the current climate. We can see that a massive bull market is just now starting. Every single point of data is yelling at us to not only keep HBD yields at 20%, but also that increasing it even higher is an option. Of course I can't argue that position because no one will accept it. But I will put my money where my mouth is and signal 21% on my @hextech witness.
Vote for @hextech if you agree.
Let's buy the bottom for once instead of selling it in fear.
Ah yes, the eternal idiocy of "let's lower the rate." Paired with the additional idiocy of "let's tweak the rewards pool structure to make the price of Hive increase."
Let's not.
I'm not saying it's the same thing, but going back to my IT years (I was NOT a developer) whenever you put developers and money in the same room, really stupid shit has a tendency to happen.
The frustrating thing about Hive (and its predecessor) has always been the substantial faction who operate in a fairy-tale vacuum where:
A little off-topic, the other day I found myself looking at the CMC/CoingGecko pages of quite a few top-50 chains/tokens. Know what's interesting? How many of of them have a regular stream of news releases in the "chat" column... no such thing from Hive. Does Hive even have an official liaison with the crypto media? Has anyone even claimed our pages?
Oh... wait. I seem to remember the last person trying to run that through the venerable Hive Fund pretty much got "voted off the island," and is now an EX-user.
Sometimes I hate decentralization... because there are aspects of centralization that actually work really well.
Sorry, your post put me in a bit of a ranty mood...
=^..^=
It is kind of exactly the same thing.
"We should print less money then number go up instantly."
Without any regard to demand going down.
Nice comment I'm pretty much in agreement with this take.
Although I may be a little less jaded at the moment.
I hadn't heard about this, what happened re: someone trying to be a liaison with crypto media and is now an ex user?
FUCK! THANK YOU!!!!!! I have been bitching about this too. The idiocy of lowering the rate is beyond me and yet all these"top" witnesses have set for some as low as 7%. I have unvoted every witness that has something lower than 20% and I hope everyone else does as well. Only thing that might make them notice the dissent. You've had my vote and I'd vote for you even harder if I could.
I have done the same :D
Ok. You got yourself a witness vote.
I noticed, much appreciated.
Good points, I might as well signal my to 21%! Maybe others will follow!
lol, I spotted that and voted for you :D
To be fair, the interest rate signalled isn't the only criterion I apply. I'll vote for a witness signalling lower if I think that the other things they are doing outweigh it. But it's definitely a significant factor !
Many thanks.
I just voted for your witness too. Love it!
Many thanks!
You're very welcome. I hope your signaling to 21% helps you move up a few ranks. As the saying goes: Audentes Fortuna Iuvat - Fortune favors the bold
I just gave you a vote too but I noticed it said you hadn't made a block for one month so I just wanted to make sure all was well. :)
It was working smoothly, but now I wanted to fix the pricefeed, and as a result the node went down 😒. Fortunately it was an easy fix.
Ack, so sorry. Glad it was an easy fix though!
These things are pretty unrelated.
You still don't understand how to post a witness update 🤣
Ich bin nicht über Nacht zum ITler mutiert, stimmt.
Das weiß auch kein 'ITler'.
Das gibt es so nur auf Hive.
Ich erkläre es Dir gerne nochmal.
...aber nicht für einen 2$ vote. @100 HBD pro angefangene Stunde geht's los.
Danke, es gibt zum Glück hier auf der Chain auch Leute, die umsonst helfen.
Many thanks!
This is just the pricefeed (this is not important to have), the last block was 2h ago.
This was a really good read. I will be looking forward to seeing what the other witnesses do. While 1 percent isn't really that much, I appreciate the symbolism of it. That screenshot with witnesses in the 12% range is kind of sad...
It will also be interesting to see if anyone offers any counterpoints to your argument.
I was going to make it 25% because that's what I would set it to right now if I had the power to do it. Then I'd lower it back to 20% after a 2x on Hive. It really is more about the symbolic signal.
Im not a fan of HBD or the 20% interest rate, but I think the 20% HBD is pretty safe, the majority of Hivers want it and agree with it.
Ah you'd vote to remove HBD entirely eh?
Honestly I miss that argument.
It makes a lot more sense on a fundamental level.
I'm really not sure tbh, im not really a stable coin person. It can be useful for a few things for sure though.
It is good to read something that I agree with , I wrote an article with a similar point of view last week and sometimes we think that we are the only one with that point of view hehehe. I HATE that " I think we should get low because I think 20% is too much" or " 20% looks like the project is a scam" !!! I would join your witness apr change revolution, but no ones care about witnesses beyond the 100 position ranking lol
Yes perhaps I have overexaggerated my delusions of persecution here a bit.
ahahhahaa but I joined the revolution by a symbolic vote on your witness. It doesn't make you jump positions but at least my hive id is there to show support hehehe
fucking finally! I kept reading so many posts the last days/weeks regarding that matter, that honestly came out of nowhere, like we solved the real issues and for some reason, we now have to the APR just because. A very interesting thing that you pointed out as well, which i did also a week or so ago was the people that were talking about it.
If you look for example at my wallet i basically have around the same amount in dollars both in HBD and HP. Now i remember a post with a question asked on how much APR in HBD we want. A lot of people said something between 10%-15% and used some of the arguments that you destroyed above! All of these people and i literally mean all that mentioned the 10%-15% APR had either 0 or like 100-150HBD tops, the majority was 0. As my old gamer self was saying back in the days ffs.
Based on their own beliefs these people hold only Hive which is fine by me, but if you don't agree with something, or don't want something, or don't understand something, or don't use something, why talk? Do your actual research first and then talk. There real issues that we have to deal with and instead we try to find ways to place obstacles to ourselves and our community!
The best (worst) argument i read, is that an outsider will see 20% APR and consider Hive a scam. First of all, that particular outsider will have the crypto is a scam mindset or he/she will be generally quite afraid of cryptos. 7 years ago when i discovered and joined Steemit, i had the window open before creating an account for 3-6 months because i was afraid and could not believe that i could earn writing anything i wanted to. If i managed to get in and be here for 7 years, i think anyone can :p
btw after i saw the 19% APR i changed over 10 of my witness votes
Oh yeah 20% that's a scam.
Oh yeah 10% that's a scam.
Oh yeah 5%, you think you can outperform bonds, bro? Scam!
lol yeah it's ridiculous logic. We've been at 20% forever and we are doing just fine. All the other actual scams that offered 20% imploded and crashed to zero, and we are sitting here years later with zero red flags up. Even if it was a scam the burden of that scam would fall onto HIVE holders not HBD holders because the haircut on the debt ratio is 30%.
Speaking for me, don’t think it’s a scam, I think it’s not going to be here long term.
It's people outside of Hive calling it a scam.
It doesn't matter what the number is.
They gonna call it a scam no matter what because they don't know shit.
That's not going to change by manipulating a number.
Manipulating the number is just another reason for them to call scam.
I have a simple answer to those kind of people. I just tell them the difference between HBD's interest and the interest from a bank savings account is explained by all the fees and bonuses bankers take. It might be simplistic, but it makes them stop and think about the greed of the legacy finance institutions !
Nice that's actually pretty clever.
The chance that they even know anything about the banking sector is low.
Although I like to to prove we aren't a scam by showing that anyone can create an account here and earn for free without having to invest. That's quite definitive undeniable proof.
Well, not no one. I’d be quite willing to see it tested at 25% or so.
I was going to set it to 25% but decided against it.
25% would be great until we get into the 50-80 cent range.
There’s a debate going on within thorchain community between people who want thorchain to focus only on cross chain amm without Thorfi while another side wants cross chain amm and ThorFi. ThorFi brings all the plus which includes lending, stable coin and all the extras. The people screaming thorchain will break cuz of ThorFi are doing so out of “feels”, meanwhile, data shows that ThorFi is actually contributing immense to the value props of Rune. “Feelz” people be doing the most. It’s crazy.
It's true, seeing HIVE floating around $0.30 - $0.35 as the bottom is a great relief. Much better than $0.10 - $0.15. That means once HIVE corrects, instead of it staying around $3.00, we may see something closer to $10
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Where do u get this from? $10 figure I mean? I sounds pulled outta thin air? $3.33 was a pump and there for a day. The high outside that one week period was closer to $2.00 and minus two weeks $1.50. I’m in Hive for the long run and believe future is bright but I don’t see $10.00 Hive coming any cycle soon. $2.00 next five years I do see.
Side note if Bitcoin didn’t boom 20K past couple months Hive was heading for .25 cents easy. I think the expectation above is way far outta in the next 5 years. I respect ya a lot so just wanted to know about ur perspective as m this.
Perhaps $10 is too optimistic, but I figure since the bottom was $0.10 and top was $3, now that everything appears to be at least 3x, the bottom at $0.30, the top would be at least $9.00. More accurately, a "correction" would be more like $3 - $4 with $10 near the top. I believe this is what we could expect a HIVE rally to look like.
If BTC does what some people are saying, it's not impossible to see $100 HIVE, crazy as it sounds. But imagine how crazy it would sound to someone in 2012 that BTC would be +50K, they'd laugh. Nobody thought BTC would ever be worth more than $1000 and most (yes most) cashed out when they saw that "magic" number. Those who sold at $1500 boasted they sold at the peak. There are so many stories of "I would have been rich if I didn't sell my BTC". I'ts going to be very tempting to sell HIVE if it reaches $1.00. Especially tempting if it reaches $1.50.
Thank you. I can be optimistic to a fault some times, so bear that in mind. :-) I wouldn't still be on HIVE (when it was STEEM) since 2017, if I thought $3.00 was the true top value... I would have cashed out then!
That's quite possible, I was still blogging when HIVE was less than $0.10. I just kept blogging and stacking, and who knows, we may see something like that again. But the reward is with those who profit from the dips and valleys, they earn while it's low and hold while it rises and sell when they feel it's reached it's maximum floor.
With people loosing confidence in their paper money and looking for somewhere to preserve their buying power, crypto is one obvious answer. If there is an economic "event", it will be a "perfect storm" where people will scramble to ditch their failing fiat. HIVE will likely ride that wave up with many of the others.
As always, not financial advice, perhaps some fantasizing, but the trend and history is very real.
I thought 20% APR was a madman move at first but then I realized I was probably earning 20% APR through posting and curating anyway. I like holding hive because I can use it, and it’s good if HBD can compete with a Hive, at this point in time 20% APR does that.
Also I find it insane that people complain about the price at this range, like yo, we aren’t on that many exchanges, we aren’t going to get the same stupid pumps as shit projects but that also means that our price is closer to a realistic value and won’t crash nearly as hard as MarioTrumpCorana coin or whatever. This is what building from the ground up looks like.
Now if we didn’t have real development and weren’t improving how we do outreach, then I’d be worried. But we do and we are.
But when do we get that VC money?
wen moon sir
lol
That was a good read. I like the fact that you actually use your brain with decisions instead of pulling it out of your arse……👍
I mean I try.
Obviously I can't guarantee I'm correct all the time but I demand that if citizens are going to make arguments that they at least have some hard data to back up the theories. Instead all the points being made are just totally feelz based it's like I'm taking crazy pills over here.
Just remember this, my father used to say it all the time.
YOU CANT FIX STUPID!
I do support that and only vote for witnesses 20% or more.
I plan to keep my witness at 20% for the foreseeable future, until there are valid reasons to change. If you want a safe and reliable return without having to do much. parking your money in HBD savings is a great insensitive. I also support the HBD stabilizer
The benefits of keeping it static seem to be quite high.
People like predictability and stability to plan around.
It is good to check how the witnesses we vote for are behaving as interests are often different.
I will maintain my votes and believe that 20% is a good value to discuss, with no option to reduce.
I really hope that the HBD doesn't not reduce from the 20% it was now
Actually I remove my witnesses vote to everyone don't have 20% APR. Is not significant, but is all I can do.
Think about it this way: there are 173,558,214 Hive powered up right now.
You own 657 of that.
That means you control about a quarter millionth (1/264167) of the vote.
If you vote in a regular election your vote is worth much less than that.
And yet people still do it and think it's really important.
Food for thought.
hmm Id never thought about that. kinda makes me want to get to 1/10,000th
@edicted youre on like 1/750th of the voting power bro. You a big boy. There are 650 representatives of the uk parliament. Youre almost there!
Ha! Yeah I remember quite vividly when I got to 1/10k voting power back in 2019.
Only takes 17k Hive at these levels; not too terrible.
Question:
If you get 20% APR for a 3 day lock up on Hive today, what do you get for the following lock up periods?:
You get nothing because longer lockup periods don't have value.
Longer timelocks have negative EV (estimated value).
You're begging the question by outright assuming longer timelocks good right at the start.
They help nothing and choke liquidity even more.
They punish users and will result in less demand for HBD.
It's taken me a long time and a lot of theory-crafting to come to this conclusion.
But hey I'm more than willing to be proven right if this is the chosen path.
The on-chain data will be incontrovertible if I'm correct.
APR on HBD should not even exist.
We should be allocating all that money to yield on a HIVE/HBD AMM farm to create actual liquidity instead of purposefully sucking liquidity out of the economy and calling it a good thing. This would create exponential liquidity and make Hive itself more stable instead of less stable (because the price is pegged by dollar denominated assets and only exponential dollars can move it).
Unfortunately I don't talk about this much because Blocktrades doesn't like it and says it's too risky. This is above my paygrade so I don't argue with him, but I also find it extremely suspect because there are potential conflicts of interest in play (like no more @hive.fund money for the stabilizer). It's hard to tell when politics leads to gatekeeping and self-preservation on Hive.
I’ll address at CTTPodcast in 4hrs. Welcome to come on and discuss.
I think your approach unnecessarily puts huge risk on layer one and community members when the same risk can be moved to willing participants on a layer two, where those taking on the risk can make way more than 20% per year.
Creating ‘liquidity’ by printing HBD is incredibly risky. Normally you create liquidity by staking pristine collateral assets and expanding money supply and liquidity with that, not with money printing.
HBD being created by inflation or APR is debt. HBD being created by people using Hive and it’s internal conversion mechanism to create HBD is safer, is not debt, it’s pre backed HBD with a pre pump in the hive price to move the haircut level further away. The two HBD creation methods are not the same and should not be looked at the same. One is debt and easy money, the other Pre backed and is hard to get people to do. You seem to be a proponent of the former to create HBD liquidity, I am a proponent of the latter to create and expand HBD.
Also, I’d stake 100k in escrow with you, even though I don’t know u. I trust u that much based on ur account size and what u do on chain, however if the haircut rule comes in and ur HBD is force devalued, I don’t trust u to hold ur HBD and ride through it next to me for a single second. All of ur writing and rallying of opinion against conservative, sound HBD economics shows that. Therefore, I say, if you want high yield, you and others like you need to be, as a minimum voluntarily clicking the “lock me in, here is proof I’m in this for the long run” button, so u can’t sell if the debts are called in.
If ur pushing this narrative, the least classy move you could make would be to ask to have ur ass hard locked in, no matter what happens for the next 2,3,5 years. At the moment, no lock up time and taking 20% from the community smells a little classless. Don’t forget u lock in, u have a pristine liquid asset that can be used as collateral or traded to bring in liquidity via the free market. If u want liquidity you can go find ppl with billions tomorrow and have them use the internal conversion to Pre back their HBD without creating a single APR debt based inflation in the process. But please don’t ask me to go into debt for your HBD liquidity dreams (which is what you are currently doing).
Perhaps this is worth more discussion.
You seem to have misrepresented my position a bit.
I have 0 HBD in the savings accounts.
I am not the one asking for or begging for free money.
Framing me as the greedy yield farmer is not appropriate.
I'm making all these arguments under the assumption that it creates the most value for Hive.
For everyone.
I'll try to make it this week.
I have an alarm on my phone set to 3 PM on Saturdays but that's been too early and then I miss it.
I see. I also have zero HBD. Hive price is capable of a 40% move in one day. Why hold HBD at any yeild level.
You create HBD and liquidity by backing it with hive that has been purchased off the open market. Not via increasing the APR, which is a debt.
Setting the APR is a now problem.
You've presented me with a tomorrow problem in response.
That alone is enough to invalidate the argument.
We aren't talking about tomorrow we are talking about now.
Tomorrow we can talk about tomorrow.
Then it will be now.
It’s really a today problem and it needs discussing and planning by sound, stable actors who are able to rationally plan and consider what could be in the near future in order to decide where resources should be allocated in the now.
If HBD savings will be still offering a 20% APR when the time will come and after this bull market I will have some cash aside so I can put into HBD savings then I will happily do that. I think 20% APR for HBD is great and it’s a great hedge for a future bear market that will follow the current bull market. I also think that HBD being decentralised and non controllable by external powers is way superior to USDT for example. Great read by the way.
I vote hextech all day everyday
I didn't think about some of those arguments yet. Probably I will reconsider my position. Thank you!
I'm late to reading this. I need to make a better effort to read your posts @edicted because I always enjoy your rants. Please keep them up. You have a much bigger audience than me, so hopefully the people in power will listen to you. I just voted for your witness, by the way. I love the signaling!
!PIMP
You must be killin' it out here!
@dbooster just slapped you with 5.000 PIMP, @edicted.
You earned 5.000 PIMP for the strong hand.
They're getting a workout and slapped 2/3 possible people today.
Read about some PIMP Shit or Look for the PIMP District
Finally someone who thinks in perspective!! I read your post in one sitting, YOU ARE RIGHT. You said everything I thought when I saw the movements of late. Keep it up, HIVE needs more people like you!!
Thank you always for being a voice from the other side.
🦾
We love “free speech”!
And why America's forefathers established the United States of America as a Republic ... Which very few people in our country today have any clue about ...
If democracy is the ultimate, then throw all of Congress out and put the ... "vote" ... up on the screen of our various "toys." Based upon everyone then making a ... "well-informed decision" ... because ... "everybody knows" ... then what could possibly go wrong! 🤷♂️
Ohhh ... Wait! ... You were talking about HDB and its interest rates ... Hahaha ...
Thanks for the investment of your time, in putting this together @edicted. Bookmarked for future reference! 🫡
Yeah I go off the rails pretty often lawls
With time this afternoon to look into this further, documenting my support here, with the vesting shares under my control, for your witness:
Done @ ~ 5:00 p.m. on 18 Feb 2024 [UTC-7].
Thanks friend
So out of curiosity what is this screenshot from?
Ah never mind HiveHub darkmode... I didn't even know this site existed.
Good stuff.
Sure, well earned IMO ... 🫡🤝
Yes, I prefer it (due to my strong and long-standing bias in favor of @asgarth and the PeakD team). Among other aspects of HiveHub, seems more stable, at least at times, than what I used to rely upon - HiveBlocks ...
Since it is somewhat linked, while I am at it and for potentially the amusement of some (and perhaps the consternation of others ... ), I will add the uhhh ... "rest of the story" ...
☠️ 😂 at “feel the feelz”
The truth is hilarious sometimes
Finally, words of wisdom. There is a lot of madness in this place where all the data is at a glance. People please check the data.
lol @ the people saying 20% is too much…. I have been making well over 100% yield in other projects sustainably for over a year now and it peaked at 180% lol people just love to talk
yeah let's not do that, thanks!
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 65/75) Liquid rewards.
Good article - thank you :)
Personally, I'd prefer to see regular small adjustments to the HBD interest rate if they are needed, rather than big swings either way which might suggest knee-jerk reactions. It's purely a confidence thing.
The one thing I would like to see is far more cost control over DHF funds issued to proposals (since that is where the largest HBD movements happen), in the form of more detail on how the funds will be used, objective metrics which would demonstrate a project is a success, and hard data to confirm whether those metrics are being achieved.
There is only one method the makes HIVE holds its value. More purchase than selling power. Because there is a limited amount of HIVE per day. This can be done. Unless you are saying the How To. You are talking as much nonsense as taskmaster.
Thank you for this explanation in terms us normies can understand. I had seen someone in a comment somewhere say that high HBD interest put a drag on Hive price, but I didn't have any context for it so was just kind of like ...huh. Going to have to find more info about that.
I have un-voted people who signaled 15% or lower that I had had votes in for, and voted for you.
Following you is not a waste of time, the way you explain this issue is great, it's important we use our debt to our advantage. The bull market is here we can pay back easily, it's crazy selling low and still have huge debt. We need to hang on till the end.
Increasing the APR to 21% is the way to go, we need to manage our debt properly
I don't really get it, tbh...
I also get annoyed, that important discussions only seem to gain traction, when the numbers don't go up, like people want them to.
However, I don't see the need for any interest rates on HBD; never did.
I want people to buy Hive not bet against it, let alone pay them extra, if we lose our bet on Hive.
After reading your post twice, I can follow your reasoning why the timing could be off, if it was changed now.
What benefit did 20% APR on HBD have in the first place, though?
I think 20% is just an arbitrary number the witnesses selected. Each has their own thinking for the rate they set. The real question is, why pay interest at all?
Suppose the market tops with $1.50 HIVE. You’d want to lock in your gains. Without HBD, you’d have to sell HIVE on the market, pushing down the price.
With HBD at 0%, it’s an easy conversion without having to go to an exchange. But if your gains can get 5% at an exchange for depositing your stablecoin, you might cash out HIVE or HBD to park your gains there.
Interest entices the HIVE community to park gains on-chain. We were quite happy at 10% at outset. But suddenly they bumped up to 20% without explanation. Someday the witness consensus will lower it without explanation.
For now, the community is voting on 20% witnesses. That’s really all there is to it. Random people voting.
An excellent post with many technical and crypto finance nuances. Unfortunately I only understood part of what I read due to my incompetence. I would like to say just one thing, that I am sad to see a project like HIVE with few registered users in 2023, it is something I never expected.
I'm hoping it does go back to a dime, I think the power to price ratio is more inline at a dime.
Maybe we can spread out the shotcalling.
What do you think about the claim that 20% killed h-e volume?
I'm not sure if I've never heard that claim uttered.
But if I have to have an opinion I'd say that HiveEngine is its own worst enemy in a lot of ways.
Can't be blaming those failures on something outside the system.
Man, it took a while but I finally found the original claimant: @yintercept.
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@yintercept/hbd-v-hive-engine
https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@yintercept/we-will-need-636-new-dolphins-to-absorb-the-hbd-interest-in-2023
He discusses it further in other posts.
Ping me if you comment on it, I'm interested in finding out if this is true.
I do know that I went from running 6 bots to 0 bots in h-e markets due to lack of volume two summers ago.
It's hard to take stuff like this seriously when it is so blatantly wrong in places like this. There is no 5% fee in HBD conversions. It's 0%.
And the way Hive to HBD conversions work is totally different as there is no wait and the HDB is delivered immediately.
And then all this math assumes zero percent growth rate and 100% dumping.
And that USD doesn't go down in value.
Guy doesn't know how this stuff works.
At all.
If HE tokens weren't shit people would buy them.
If 20% gains a year is better than the token then it failed.
I was making much more than 20% running those bots, they paid for themselves in a couple months and then BAM!, nothing.
It was like somebody flipped a switch.
That happened about the time hbd interest went up.
Yes, some hiveucation is in order.
But, I think he is right about the timing of the switch flip.
!lolz, I guess so.
I'm looking at them as a cheaper alternative to 10usd hive.
They work basically the same.
I have little experience with HE tokens so I believe your lived experience.
It also explains why beeswap is always out of Hive and will pay users to deposit it for swap.hive.
At the same time bear markets have a way of killing volume as well.
The 20% move came significantly after we peaked.
It was 12% before that.
So yeah of course HE was gutted the bear market killed it.
20% yield just a nail in the coffin.
Check out the chart Hive was 35 cents as early as June.
Wrecked.
lolztoken.com
Put it in the microwave until its Bill Withers.
Credit: basilmarples
@edicted, I sent you an $LOLZ on behalf of antisocialist
(1/6)
ENTER @WIN.HIVE'S DAILY DRAW AND WIN HIVE!