Let’s consider for a moment a separate group of custodial parents: those who weren’t awarded child support in the first place. There are lots of them to look at — nearly half of all custodial mothers and three-quarters of custodial fathers don’t have a legal agreement for child support payments in place. When asked why, custodial fathers are twice as likely to say “child stays with other parent part of the time.” They’re also slightly more likely to cite financial reasons like “child’s other parent provides what she can” or “child’s other parent could not afford to pay.”
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-moms-less-likely-than-dads-to-pay-child-support/
That’s not all. The average household income of a dad who doesn’t get the child support money he’s due is $51,791. For moms, that figure is $26,231.
Easier to say when living a bit above the poverty line.
If the mothers had abortions, the father wouldn't have to pay, sure. But apparently it's not common that men who can't afford to pay child support actually do. If you don't have the money, you can't simply can't pay! But if you don't have an abortion, the child is still there, needing to eat, wehether or not mom or dad can afford to feed him/her
You are still missing the point.
Do you agree with her body, her choice?
We as a society grant women the right to abort, in spite of what her male partner wants.
As a woman you can choose to abort and neither the state nor the partner can stop her.
If you are a man, however, if you want the child and she does not, you have no power. And if you do not want the child and she does, likewise.
See, this is the point: the hypocrisy of supporting her body, her choice, while denying the same equal treatment under the law - women in this case have all the choice, zero responsibility: men have zero choice, all the responsibility.
But sure, hamster it away.
You are missing the point that it's unreasonable to grant a man a say in the choice to abort or not. How would you do that? How do you even know who is the father for sure until the baby can be DNA tested? What if some guy wrongly claims "oh yes, I fucked her and got her pregnant! I demand to keep the child!" Yes, dont you realiuze the flaw in your argument here? lol
If you do not want the man to have a saying about the woman's body, then apply that same logic and do not allow the woman to have a saying in the man's wallet.
I believe the real flaw is that even once it has been proven that the man indeed was not the father, he is still forced to pay alimony after having been deceived.
Furthermore, turn your own argument around: what is some woman wrongly claims "oh yes, we fucked and got pregnant! And he is the father!"
In some countries it is not even legal to find out whether he is the father or not, but more to the point, he will be financially enslaved for 18 years all the same.
This you call equality?
I don't agree that it is right that a man should have to pay when he's not even the father. There's always situational circumstances. Where I live men can get paternity tested.
Governments do that to mitigate the expense on them and society, it has nothing to do with women and them having the right to choose.
I dont think human rights has to be men vs. women., when it comes down to gender issues.
"Equality" can never exist IMO. As with situations like these...women can have babies, men can't, there's never going to be an equal footing comparison. It's very complicated.
I appreciate the discussion.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you feeling that is unfair. I'm just saying you're not working with reality.
Your reality, perhaps.
And I do not feel that is unfair - I have easily demonstrated through reason why it is unfair, but I guess we are not speaking the same language here.
No worries, just let the man formally abort the child support if he wishes.
Let the woman decide what she wants to do with her baby, and the man decide what he wants to do with his money. Simple, if the woman wants the baby but the man does not, then he should not be financially responsble for anything to do with the baby.
If the woman doesn't want the baby and the man does, then too bad, he's out of luck - unless maybe the woman agrees to carry the baby to term and be paid for it by the man, and then once the baby's born she can give up her parental rights and responsibilities entirely to him, like a surrogate mother.
Who do you think it is that is forcing men to pay child support? It's the same oppressive Patriarchy ruling by force, in this case for the benefit of women and children. Elsewhere it used to control women for the benefit of men. You enthusiastically got rid of that part, but somehow feel entitled to still keep everything that the same evil Patriarchy afforded to women in terms of the child support, alimony, etc. Nice scam and scram tactics.
How do men have all the responsibility? How the hell do wmen have ZERO responsibility? You failed to demonstrate. I just disproved that with the article I posted.
I understand that you are likey too young of a man to really understand the realities of children, pregnancy, abortion, etc. And it's ok to be angry about it.
Women's choice, regardless of what her partner wishes: to abort or not to abort.
Men's choice, regardless of what he wants: To end up footing the bill.
Therefore: zero responsibility for the woman (it takes two to tango, save atypical situations such as rape), full choice, regardless of what her partner thinks and wants.
And all responsibility for the man (there is no getting out of this, a path that is available to the woman), with correspondingly zero choice.
You would be mistaken.
I am not.
And just to be clear, I am not against abortion per se.
I do think it should be a last resort and not contraception plan B as it often appears to be used nowdays -- insulating people from their own mistakes.
What I am deeply against is the profound unfairness that I hope to have demonstrated.
I think that a lot of women really consult their partners in whether to have an abortion, if they are in fact in an actual partnership.
My issue is not that you are claiming something unjust; maybe no one (man or woman) should have to pay child support, I don't know if that could work as a social policy or not. I think comparing men's involuntary paying of child support to women having choice to abort is a false equivalence.
"Men's choice, regardless of what he wants: To end up footing the bill."
It doesn't work out in reality that the male pays for the majority of the child's expenses!
Even if he has money. And if so, the father doesn't necessarily have more money than the mother. That is really subjective and individual, where the fact that women are the ones who get pregnant, give birth, lactate, are the primary care-giver of the infant, is universal (except maybe primary caregiver, a very small minority of men may end up as the primary caregiver to the child)
Plus, the man doesnt go through any of the health risks in abortion or taking the morning after pill, right?
Are you a red piller or has the "hamster" definition becoming main stream?