@lukestokes - I am in no way supporting autocratic and violent measures against peaceful protesters. However, I think I do understand the need for uniforms and facelessness of the foot soldiers of governments. I have seen too many situations during my travels in the world where the so called 'peaceful' protest turn into a violent mob in a murderous frenzy. The forces to be equipped to deal with such eventualities is but natural. What matters is how and when the 'use force' directive is effected by those in power. I do not blame the foot soldiers!.
Also - for a single law enforcement man, identifiable by the dark forces he fights against, the strength required for taking actions can only come from some comfort that his authority is symbolized by his uniform (signifying some 'support' by the government for those actions) and some mental comfort that brothers-in-arms who wear the same uniform, support him. The anonymity afforded by face masks is not desired by the foot soldiers necessarily but brings solace to them that their actions, taken in the line of duty - will NOT end up in being a nightmare for their families - Cases of negative elements seeking revenge on identified cops and law enforcers are too frequently seen around the world...
So, I guess what I am trying to say is that in such law enforcement situations, it is not shame or guilt that prompts the face masks and armor but in the case of the anti-social elements, the face masks are totally due to those reasons which you have stated. We perhaps can not weigh these two circumstances in the same balance.
Again - I totally agree with you that balance is the key and violence against peaceful protesters is utterly deplorable. Especially so in this particular instance mentioned in your post where innocent mothers with infants, waiting peacefully to vote were beaten up!! I condemn such actions! However, the factors driving the need/desire for anonymity could be different in different circumstances, depending on whether that is necessary in the line of duty or prompted by cowardice and guilt of actions.
Thanks for speaking up about this aspect. It does mandate debate. Upvoted full.
Regards,
@vm2904
Great comment, thank you. I'm going to disagree with you, but I think you make a very good argument.
But we already learned from the Nuremberg trials that "just following orders" is not an acceptable defense. We have to hold enforcers accountable to their actions. They have to be held accountable for following (or not following) immoral orders. This concept of authoritarian structures defining action (and of tribal masses turning into violent mobs) is touched on in a couple of the posts I link to, but I know it's a very complex issue.
It's easy for us to just say, "Well, it all depends on what happens in the end." To a degree, that's correct. Those who use defensive force appropriately to protect the innocent should also, in turn, be protected. My argument is they will best protected by only acting morally, being celebrated within their communities for their valor, bravery, honesty, integrity, and action to help those who can't help themselves and something like Detroit Threat Management to protect those who need protection.
It's hard for me to assume government is good. Read up about a democide and you might better understand what I mean. 260 million people being killed is bad.
I agree, we need systems in place to prevent violent mobs. I'm not convinced the approaches taken by governments actually deescalate violence. Instead, I think they make it worse. If, instead, individuals within a mob (unmasked) could be held responsible for their actions, that would help. I'm also a fan of systems to prevent violence (such as NVC) instead or responding to it after the fact.
@lukestokes - You made excellent points. I guess I am a bit biased about the possibility of mobs turning violent because of a few incidents where my family members or I suffered because of mob violence. I personally believe that the sense of duty and working to one's conscience brings it's own rewards. However, I see many of policemen in the third world, trying to do their job honestly and ending up with only misery, constant peer pressure for corrupt ways and sometimes even death, instead of getting the recognition they deserve. Hence my sympathy to the desire for them to be a bit anonymous when they perform their duties. I will read up on the Detroit Threat Management but even before I read it, I kind of suspect that there is nothing in Africa or Asia probably that matches, except for couple of developed countries.
I am with you on the aspect of governments not always being good. Yes - they do have biased motives, driven by agendas that are driven by some influential entities many times. However, again - in the third world countries, there is some semblance of order due to some governments who, apart from achieving their own hidden agendas, also maintain some law and order, which mostly helps the common citizens in their day to day lives. The situation is vastly different in developed countries where orderly life is the norm, upheld by most citizens.
Thanks for your detailed response. Very informative and I will surely read up more.
I hope to have more traveling experience to broaden my perspective. From the outside looking in, it does seem to me certain cultural perspectives on morality in third-world countries are skewed. Could it be because the source of moral truth most people think of ("law" provided by government) is so completely corrupted that cheating someone else is the only way to get ahead? If those who set "the rules" cheat more than anyone else, what is incentivized other than becoming a better rule breaker than the next guy? To me, it's all game theory and it relates to Maslow's Hierarchy as well (more on that here). I agree, if we can't raise people up the hierarchy enough to see (though self-actualization) the benefits to themselves and others by acting ethically... well. yeah. It becomes a vicious cycle downwards.
Sounds about right. I have often said that it is a vicious cycle with people stuck in an endless rat race. If you recall, I had even done a post, couple of months back, on trying to break free by imbibing values (a reverse Manslow pyramid theory) first over and above the needs of day to day survival. You had disagreed and said that it seems like first world thinking. I have been talking to people in Africa and India after that and found that, day to day survival does take precedence in everyone's mind but people are beginning to question being stuck in the same rut, day in and day out. I have a feeling that, some clean and charismatic leaders may be able to bring about a viewpoint change. Sounds very Utopian as I say it but hope and support is all I can do. There are many questions that stare us in the face and we find it amazing that no one does anything about it when logically, answers should be obvious. For example, I wrote about the cost of peace and world hunger in my recent post - seems very simplistic if someone wants to implement the solution but it is always like the story of 4 brothers - The Story of Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody! (I am including myself in the lot who talks and does not do much! Am trying to change that. Let us see) :)