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6 years ago in #art by beinart (55)
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Let me comment with what I already wrote in a Facebook message:
if they want to have tags, then make them graduated, like movie ratings. I think Zazzle is like that for uploads, though so far I had no problem with my tag G - but just dividing the world into lollipops and hardcore porn is wrong.
So I searched Zazzle for their Rating System, and take note that this is a US based company (and you know how uptight they are there about such things), but it makes a lot of sense, and I wish that Steemit would adopt something on that model - with modifications, because I think there should be another rating between PG 13 and R:
https://help.zazzle.com/hc/en-us/articles/219431407-The-Zazzle-Maturity-Ratings-System
Here is another one, from deviantArt:
https://www.deviantartsupport.com/en/article/what-is-mature-content-453216
here is a old deviantArt Forum tread:
https://forum.deviantart.com/community/philosophy/2048844/
If you google those questions, you find all kinds of answers, and some of them cause me to #facepalm ..... this hashtag has only a few posts here on Steemit - but it is very prominent on Facebook. Maybe that would be a tag to also use more often.
I don't know whom we can reach with this concern - does someone have a suggestion?
Please keep lobbying to get this rating system approved. Something is better than nothing (for prudes will be prudes) but anything is better than the fear of offending your boss with honest flesh.
I always found film ratings very useful in the more moderate countries, where 18+ told you exactly what to expect (yawn) and that 12+ was probably going to be a complicated script (yay!) while 16+ could get very gory and smutty. Then again I've seen 9 Songs rated as 18+ which is ridiculous.
Kids shouldn't be on here. People with hang-ups will be hereby advised to view discretely or not at all.
Film-ratings ain't what they used to be, anymore (in some countries) and it's plain deplorable what people allow children between 12-16 watch.
(Stick to Disney or go do some crafts with under twelves -also don't take them to Beinart's gallery.)
I strongly disagree with this. And I'd happily show my godkids Jon's posts. They're interested in art and surrealism, and nobody's brought them up to be afraid of bodies.
There is a time and a place for everything. Depends what age you are talking about. And what the nudity is meaning to convey. Greek statues are also naked and I wouldn't hesitate to walk past them with a child, but showing them is pointless. Some of the pictures above are about sexuality. Not a suitable topic for young children. Hasn't got anything to do with prudishness but with appealing to the interests of the child.
When I was a kid, I appreciated a lot of highly-sexualized art in other ways. I loved the original Shall We Dance movie for its insight into Japan, and most of the innuendo went right over my head. Which made it fun to watch again as an adult.
I'm pretty sure my 11-year-old goddaughter would appreciate "Girl Blown Away" on a non-sexual level, and if she came back to it when sexually aware would find something new in it that would be a different experience than if she had never seen it before. The political-sexual context of "Proscaenia" I'm sure would go completely unread until she encounters hard-core feminism, but she'd enjoy the dollhouse. She'd probably find "The Garden of Delight" confusing and boring, but honestly so do I.
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Yes! Thank you for this post! I totally agree - it has always bothered me that the inclusion of a nipple (or gods forbid, genitalia) automatically gets a NSFW tag, or a flag. Really? With how over-saturated media is with sexuality and violence, and how easily people can get to whatever sorts of images they like, thanks to the interwebs, why are we so stuck on this? Especially when it comes to a figure painting... there's absolutely nothing pornographic about a painting of a body. Everyone has one. And all of them include these bits and pieces, that, for some reason, people have deemed offensive..?
What bothers me most about the NSFW tag here, on Steemit, is that it automatically hides everything about the post, including the title! That just isn't fair. It's not fair to the artists who feel the need to use the tag, so as to not get flagged, and it's not fair to the users, who are likely missing out on some amazing work, because they're just assuming there's porn or something heinous, lurking in the deep dark shadows of the censored realm.
I love the idea of a graded rating system. I hope someone out there can make that happen.
I hope and pray that someone who can make decisions in this regard on Steemit will read this, as well as your and my separate comment (and those of others in this tread) and act on it! If it can be done by other sites (as I gave examples in my comment) so it should be doable here as well!
Maybe it should also be mentioned that there is NO self-directed rating system on the Saatchi Art Site. Mind you, it is pretty hard to find something "offensive" there, unless mindless splatters of paint are offensive to you, haha.
Addendum about Saatchi - artwork is rated by the curators, but the category is wide open and only speaks of legal prohibitions (i.e. minors as nude photo models etc.):
https://support.saatchiart.com/hc/en-us/articles/205628027-What-qualifies-as-adult-content-?
Quote: Our curators decide which works qualify as adult content, however if there is a work you'd like to call to their attention, please contact us at [email protected].
You have the option of blocking adult content:
https://support.saatchiart.com/hc/en-us/articles/204628558-How-do-I-block-unblock-adult-content-
I should mention that none of my work has ever been classified as Adult Content at Saatchi, and I uploaded stuff that got me canned on Facebook by the nipple police.
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Your opinion is very accurate, in that category only porn is found and nothing else. There is no interesting art or content worthwhile. Dick predominate more than anything else. You should create an exclusive additional category for artistic works and not a vulgar photo showing your parts. Excellent criticism, greetings.
Yes!
I really enjoy the Sandberg.
While I'm entirely comfortable with your sense of what qualifies as art and shouldn't need nsfw, I am considerably less so when it comes to my fellow photographers.
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Opened a tab on that. Edit: wow that website is nonfuctional on Firefox for me. There's side-scrolling that's clearly supposed to happen but doesn't.
"Art" is used widely in pornographic photography/videography as a synonym for "high production values." And even without that the way photographers define "art" is more or less a complete clusterfuck. We're all terrible at figuring out what it means, and I include myself even with some modest exhibition success.
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I use nsfw tag when I post photos of myself. I guess I should use that tag in some of my art projects as well. But so far it seems that no one was offended by them...
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to be fair even my nude photos are quite safe. at least by steemit standards. 😁
:)
yay for no shame!! Great selection of art..I resteemed!
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Lol 😂
I absolutely agree with you that Art should not be censored! Resteemed
Yes! Thank you!
I really enjoy this post. I draw cartoon characters that I call my "Little Insanos" but I havent posted any in a while since a lot of mine are partially nude and I have been afraid of getting flagged. I guess I will post some and just say "What the hell". Haha
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I posted a few yesterday... more should be up soon within the next week. I will probably include links to my other insanos in the next post since it had apparently been about 9 months since the last ones.
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I think it's up to you whether or not to use the nsfw tag (after all there's a lot of publicly accessible statues, sculptures and paintings of pretty much everything in museums and just around the place). I think I have mentioned to you before that if you don't hide behind the stupid tag though you have a chance of getting flagged by some prude who will cry because something you posted offended their overly delicate sensibilities :) (and this could be a problem if they're the type that like throwing their weight around)
However after thinking about this for a bit I think we should just hide behind innocuous thumbnail images and plaster warnings in the titles and opening paragraphs and if people go ahead and open them anyway then it's their own stupid fault ;D
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I completely agree. The NSFW tag is a strange sort of self censorship which i believe is the scariest of sorts. Leading people to hold back on free expression.
I have faced similar issues when deciding to use it on some of my posts. I dont want my work to not be visible to those who have the hide NSFW setting turned on by default.
Maybe we can show by the first image in our posts that people can expect nudie bits and to turn back if they are easily offended.
I personally get steemit to show me all the NSFW content so that i won't miss any great posts trying to fly under the prudes radar. Unfortunately this leads my feeds to be covered in content i don't want to see.
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I think most art should be ok but I don't agree with posting nudes without the nsfw tag because art is pretty open to interpretation and people don't get in trouble for how they view the pics it's how their coworkers do....
porn can be considered art is porn ok for the work place.....
Wonderful paintings!!! Genial!!!!
Aren't they great! :)
They are really really good!!!!
Well the thing is - using NSFW tag here is purely a voluntary thing that you do yourself. And if you are posting porn it is actually a wise thing to do as you will get flagged for it otherwise. But I haven't personally seen anyone flagging art with "naughty bits" for not using NSFW, and even if you do see that, that is a personal opinion on the part of the flagger and will almost certainly be outweighed by the increased support on your posting by not using the NSFW tag and allowing people to see the image thumbnail and title, etc. I am wrestling with this a little bit myself as I am about to post a song for Comedy Open Mic which has absolutely filthy naughty lyrical content and for which I strapped a dildo to my microphone. I am not going to use the NSFW tag but will include fair warning in the title and intro text that is displayed in the feed, and make sure my cover image does not include the (potentially) offensive dildo :)
Anyway - I would say personally, post away, and if you actually do run into someone flagging for this, that is the time to have the direct conversation with them and hopefully talk some sense into them. Absolutely love this selection of art.
BTW just to clarify something, I know you run a gallery - I have been assuming when looking at your posting that you have permission to post this artwork by other artists. Can you confirm that? And in that case may I humbly suggest that you note that at the bottom of your posts? You are actually probably more likely to get flagged for someone thinking you are trying to be rewarded by posting copyrighted pictures from other artists, than you are of getting flagged for posting nude art without NSFW tag.
Much love - Carl
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All the free networks suffer from this. In my comic I post a few completely innocent and not sexual nipples, and I just had a big discussion on Diaspora (a free federated network) which I also posted here on Steemit.
I hope people would just choose for themselves and stop the puritan policing.
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Cool :) I follow you too.
On the internet, everything (at the moment) is more or less open and accessible, to anyone. That means many different cultural norms. It is immature for people to expect that the world censors itself for them.
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I do wish art was free from the confines of censorship. I've at least got my privacy settings set to show NSFW content (even when I'm at work) knowing full well that my feed isn't going to be showing me porn, because I'm not following anyone that produces porn. upvoted and resteemed
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I considered this issue for a while because steemit is so world wide; but so is all social media. After I saw that my posts were completely hidden after using the NSFW tage I stopped using it. If I am not posting porn I do not want to be treated like I am.
Edit: Just went on your public facebook and saw a picture of you with Nathan at the Hive Gallery lol! Wish I had been there then; we need to get him on here.
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I am a resident there. Taking a break for a few months and letting my neighbor take over my space; but I hope to be back:) Small world.
So good man, i love iiit
Thanks! Glad you like it :)
My first major nude on here got down voted. I had spent 3 hours on it and the downvote took all the profit I had made at the time. I was just starting out here and it felt like a huge blow. It wasn't even overtly sexual it just had a shaved muff. It sent me a strong message that the richer prudes can censor whatever they like. A lot of the time, if you go to their accounts it is religion/biased bullshit with some crypto thrown in.
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I also don't think it's appropriate to use the NSFW tag for artwork unless you want it to be regarded as porn. Out of courtesy, you could put a note in the post title about it containing nudity, and then avoid using a nude in the first image of the post, (as others have suggested,) and then put any content you would like in the actual post.
With all of that being said, it is the Internet, and there are plenty of trolls that will happily come along and flag your content with no good reason.
I didn't know who Aleah Chapin was until today, seeing your post, but that piece above, It Was The Sound Of Their Feet, I've been googling to find something more written about it, and this has revealed interviews and general statements on the purpose of the piece, and more about her work, and one video interview with the artist where this piece is explained. However, I'm left wondering if something was left out in the discussions and explanations I've seen. Do you know if there is any special significance to the posture, position, or body language of the two figures on the far left? Or do you have anything more about this piece? The other women in the piece are engrossed in this childhood game, but the two on the end, even though they're all nude and all physically close, and all the others are engrossed in this game, these two are almost aloof, and staring off, possibly in their own world, or perhaps they're facing away because they already went through and their detachment has some other significance? Their embrace just strikes me as different. I'd appreciate any comment you might have on this.
Thanks!