You may or may not have seen my most recent video, which I put out on FB, in the hopes of continuing the exodus of folks from that platform. As I mentioned there, I don't really put my content anywhere but Hive, except maybe small snippets. Most of my "posting" to things like FB & Reddit are simply re-posts of memes, videos, and quotes that I want to share either to spark conversation, or simply to get the message out there.
Looking at this image, you can probably guess which one of those this one was shooting for :-P Well, it worked well, and now I'm here to share that conversation with you!
I simply posted the following image... and then things got interesting. I'll put the conversation that I found valuable first, and a bunch of related memes that my friends shared down at the bottom.
Statist Friend
STOP! Right now you ignorant fucks. My mom joined the force after my lil bro shot himself in the head with a rifle. She teaches in schools about suicide prevention. Her partner is full blood indigenous and has been a cop for ten plus years. Be the motherfucking change you wish to see. All you fucking twats disrespecting those people just because they wear badges are fucking stupid. I lost my lil bro... I never know wether I'm going to loose my mom too. But I swear to the great spirit if this shit doesn't stop there will be hell to pay. Mark my words.
Me
I'm not disrespecting anyone, just pointing out that besides being paid in stolen money, and being allowed/their basic job function being to violate the rights of others... Police also commit domestic abuse at many times the national average (estimated at ~40%, based on reported cases.)
Anarchist Friend #1
Have you mom or her partner reported or arrested any fellow cops for misconduct, and if so, how quickly thereafter were they terminated?
Statist Friend
AF1 - actually yes their chief was removed from service for misconduct. My mother is like me. She doesn't put up with bullshit. And Kenny Palurintano read the fucking meme carefully. It is calling all officers abusers. Grow up. Stop posting bullshit. This is just as fucked as a racist claiming some fucked bullshit about an entire group of people based on their flag or their turban or wtf ever else. Stupid ignorant shit.
Me
QUOTE: "This is just as fucked as a racist claiming some fucked bullshit about an entire group of people based on their flag or their turban or wtf ever else."
Actually, it's exactly not like that. Choosing to become a member of an organized crime syndicate, receive a paycheck in stolen funds (taxes), and go about the work of extorting, kidnapping, and committing violence against people (and these are just the things that are in the job description...) is not the same as being born with a particular skin color (or any other thing that you don't have a choice about & can't change.)
I'm not saying that everyone who joins the police is a "bad person" or any other judgmental BS. Nor the military, politics, Monsanto, etc.
Most people end up where they are because of a mix of trauma & programming (by family, government indoctrination camps, media, military/police training...) Honestly, most are simply repeating cycles of trauma that are rippling down generation after generation at this point. "They killed us, so we kill them," lather, rinse, repeat. Look at the number locked up for violent crime, who themselves witnessed/experience violent crime in childhood. Same for sexual assault.
But even outside those who act in overtly criminal ways (crime = action with a non-consenting victim), the state & corporate media do their best to create a culture of greed, aggression, paranoia, group-think, apathy, etc.
Doing a wrong/immoral/bad/violating thing, doesn't just make someone "bad." Not even doing a BUNCH of those things. I advocate & try to practice a healing approach to conflict resolution, preferring schools like Unitive Justice & Restore Justice over the authoritarian & punitive model.
But that doesn't change the fact that those who make choices to support & promote institutional violence, people who are actively making the choice to be the boot heel of a tiny powerful elite, digging into the throat of the community they, most often set out with a desire & intention to protect.
The training is dehumanizing (FAR moreso since the DHS took over policing after 9/11), the role is largely literal highway piracy, and they're given WAY too much weaponry, combat training, and situations to deal with - with little to none of the relevant training in non-violent communication, conflict de-escalation, mental health interventions, etc.
The system is set up to pit the "blue" against the rest, just like it's set up to pit the "poor" against the "middle & upper classes," while the couple thousand folks at the very top literally own all the media, banks, military contractors, giant food producers, prisons, and politicians.
Without the police & military all making the personal CHOICE to do the will of those violent, maniacal eugenicists at the top and violate the sovereignty of others, the whole system collapses.
~~
As to the meme specifically: It's an intentionally eye-catching, "click-bait" image designed to get people thinking about the other ways in which having a class of people who are not held responsible for their violence is a bad idea. Pointing the the evidence that police officers commit domestic violence at 2-4x the national average.
https://kutv.com/news/local/40-of-police-officer-families-experience-domestic-violence-study-says
I didn't make the meme, but it caused this conversation, and all the ones above it, so I'm pretty happy with it.
Statist Friend
Kenny Palurintano - I expected more from you fucking sheeple.
Me
Violence is wrong. Period.
Having a uniform, a paycheck, and a shiny metal star doesn't make it less wrong.
The "police," and all other forms of institutional violence are wrong. Period.
Statist Friend
Kenny Palurintano - yes violence can be wrong.... Some people like to box.... I don't see anything wrong with that. They are training their minds and their bodies to protect themselves against other humans. Yes there are abusers in the world. People who will take any opportunity to put another person down, to try and dominate them because they get pleasure from that... Sorta like your buddy John who so readily tries to insult me as if he were never taught decent manners. Let's be honest some people deserved to be slapped because let's face it they're abusive dickheads... And let's be honest.... There's more of those not wearing badges than there are wearing them.
Me
"violence can be wrong...."
Is wrong. Just is.
~~
"Some people like to box...."
Violence infers that there was a violation of another. An act of aggression, that was not consented to. In the case of boxing, martial arts, etc. this is not the case - all those people are giving consent to each other. Just force, not violence.
~~
"Let's be honest some people deserved to be slapped because let's face it they're abusive dickheads..."
You're missing the real problem(s): some people act like abusive dickheads because they were abused as children, and grew up in a society that rewards & incentivizes abuse (as long as it's in the name of Gubment!)
~~
"There's more of those not wearing badges than there are wearing them."
True, there's also the military, the prison guards, the politicians, the IRS, the code enforcers, and so many others who literally violate others, day in and day out, for a living.
Statist Friend
Kenny Palurintano - I think you have a misconstrued idea of what is violence. Video games and movies can be violent. Violence doesn't in fact infer violation at all. Additionally. There are abusive fucks living in the house four six and twelve doors down from you... We live in an abusive society and believe it or not, the government is one of the largest things actually preventing the abuse that could take place.... I'd visit some other countries where the governments are less wealthy and just see how much more abuse there is there.
Me
Violence, from the Latin violationem or violare: "an injury, irreverence, profanation," "to treat with violence, outrage, dishonor."
I'm using the term as it is used in anarchist philosophy (rather than the version promoted by the State, which is simply institutional violence, and loves to trick people into supporting it with euphemisms to make their actions seem less evil.)
We could remove the term violence completely and the conversation would be the same.
~~
It is wrong to violate the consent of others. Always. Period. The only potential justification for doing so is in immediate self-defense/defense of another.
All government employees are paid by stolen funds (violating consent), and the police & military specifically are trained & armed, then sent out to physically violate people (against their consent) every day.
~~
"We live in an abusive society and believe it or not"
That is the point I've been making. And that violence is institutionalized, revered, and supported by most, in the form of the State and its thugs...
~~
"the government is one of the largest things actually preventing the abuse that could take place..."
The State is literally the largest creator of violence in all of human history. AND the extent to which this society has so much violence & abuse, it is precisely BECAUSE the State needs it to be. Can't be a globe-spanning military empire if your "citizens" actually respect life and the sovereignty of others.
That's all there is so far, I'll update this if the conversation keeps moving forward :-) As always, I'm putting content like this on my Hive blog for a few key reasons:
- I don't want to lose my thoughts/content
- I want feedback from folks about how I could communicate better next time
- Because a debate is always about convincing the audience, never the person you're debating - so the bigger the audience, the better.
Here's the Memes I Promised
And, because it's always relevant...
That was good, thanks,...
This might help you in future debates.
It's not taught in skools, but the secret societies have all read it.
I know it has made my deliveries more concise.
If it won't fit on a protest sign, it is unlikely to propagate with those easily distracted by cat videos.
Really got that guys cognitive dissonance going crazy. I have a feeling that people that react like that actually know on some level, that they are arguing against their own best interest. Thats why they are so pissed off, part of their brain knows that the rest of it has been conned...
Impossible! I could never stay as rational and calm as you did. That's why I turned my back on Facebook and Twitter.
I find it interesting how the peaceful types are so aggressively attacked for saying things that others don't like. I get that his mother joined the force for noble enough reasons and friend feels the need to defend that, but I'm guessing by the fact you refer to them as a friend, they know you well enough to know that you are peaceful, considerate and coming from a place of concern for others.
It's like the vitriol hurled at the hippies as they peacefully protested the war. Why is it that a call to respect your fellow people incites such anger in some?
Remember this - its not even about the police - its about those in power allowing, training, and incentivising police to act in a manor that violates our rights with little or no accountability, in the "interest" of maintaining peace and justice, when they instead inflict persecution. I actually have met a few police officers here and there that were serving and protecting correctly as we would like all police to do, but they are far and few in between. I do not generalize or discriminate - nothing is true for all people, even police.