Alright, let me delve deeper into what I mean by that now that I got your attention.
Some of you who were here at the time may remember how much they sucked, it made the platform what Steemit is today pretty much, only those willing to enrich stakeholders by getting 5-10% profit on their posts through bidding for votes got rewards while many authors who wouldn't stoop down to that level got ignored as most staked got focused towards selling votes.
This meant that stakeholders were getting 80-90% returns, if not more in some cases and dumb blind votes and autovoters would vote on people who bought votes to give them an edge and a reason to continue doing so. It was disastrous.
Some of you may remember that @ocdb was eventually forced to start doing something after many years of watching this unfold as we felt it was affecting good authentic authors with all the stake focused towards what was giving the highest APR. The main difference of how we ran things was that we had a whitelisted userbase who could buy our votes, a guaranteed return on the votes cast and a higher return to delegators since we as the operator didn't take a fee.
Now, back to my title. You may also remember that back during the bid bot era, there were no free downvotes. So technically, we haven't experienced what bid bots would be like today where we have 25% downvote mana to attempt to combat it. It's safe to say that many wouldn't even dare to experiment with it again just cause of the trauma back then, which is fine. My point is just that there could at times be a usecase for wanting to promote your posts on trending (in moderation) and when you have something important to announce. We may do this instead through beneficiaries by burning author rewards, but even then it is difficult to alert stakeholders that you're burning rewards for the sake of promotion. Instead we have platforms like peakd offering promotion slots by burning half of the rewards and giving the other half to peakd.
Okay, so what I wanted to talk about is a new idea I've been experimenting with during this time.
Curator activity is probably at an all time low, author activity, especially from newer ones, is probably also very low. Yet people complain that curators are often not doing a good job at finding these deserving posts that could use curation. So my idea is kind of trying to kill two birds with one stone, so let me get into it.
Instead of creating an AI curator which was one of my first ideas, I thought, why not let more people become curators but have AI judge their nominations?
It's not even AI really, it's mostly a ton of different parameters stacked to give our curators the right tools to judge posts without having to do deep dives into each account constantly and relying on discord bots we've created over the years that are barely scraping by anymore with their devs having gone afk.
The idea is quite simple enough. Here's an example of a nominated post in our curation queue:
The score itself is what's important here, behind it there's many different parameters I'd rather not get into here publicly, but on mouseover for our curators it'll tell them a lot of different information they ought to know before giving it a vote.
other things you see in the screenshot are: KE which I'm sure we've all become familiar with by now. Their average post payouts the past week/month, how often they comment on their own posts vs others, how often they vote.
Hive needs more healthy users who show that they're not just in it for themselves or for the rewards, we need more of these that do spend time, attention and effort on the community as that makes our tokens we earn worth more.
Hive also needs more healthy curators who don't just pick their friends/neighbors but go out and look for truly underrewarded posts/overlooked authors and have a smart scoring system that shows how good they are at it and are rewarded for exactly that.
Now to get back to my clickbaity title, we may also allow self-nominations through our new tools once they're launched, it will have its limits, for instance only 3x/week but more importantly compared to the bid bot era, it will have a cost to nominate your own posts. When you send out the nomination, you'll be forced to burn 1 hive to do so.
This is both to prevent people from spamming us with their own posts that aren't deserving of our votes while at the same time making sure that curators don't become biased if that hive went to them. I.e. if a curator knew they're getting a share of those hive and there's few authors nominating themselves, they may be softer towards accepting the posts due to self-interest. Burning the Hive however helps out the whole platform and those who use it well are sure to make the hive back in no time.
Anyway, would appreciate your thoughts on this and if you have any feedback/ideas on how to further improve it.
We are also working on a new system for POSH alongside this so a lot of things to come!
Thanks for reading.
I've heard the term bid bots over the years, and had a rough idea of what they were, but your explanation sums it up pretty well.
The plan laid out is a good way of incentivising people to engage more with thoughtful comments, but I think there would need to be some way to determine whether someone is giving truly thoughtful comments or just waste comments. I noticed a long time ago that there are people commenting 50+ times per day. Ecency has a scoreboard where users earn Ecency points for commenting, so in a way, it incentivizes people to comment a lot, while saying nothing, or copy and pasting comments, which is pretty common too.
Sifting through genuine commenters and engagers and separating them from bot-like commenters chasing the leaderboard top score would be tough, but if that could happen, and less frequent genuine engagement was rewarded, it would really help to encourage and grow the type of community spirit we want to see.
Also, I kind of understand how burning works, and understand it's a good way to cut down on the supply of the token, but would it not be a good idea to have people send their Hive to a new curator account, which would be powered up and used? It would have a fairly low stake initially, but after a while, it could hold a significant amount of HP, and it would be an extra curator on the scene.
Yeah, I guess similar to the KE score it only tells half the story, so curators should still take a look now and then to make sure it's not spammy nongenuine comments as well as take a look at how they vote since those can just be a trail/auto as well.
Honestly, we have a lot of voting power right now, just lack curators and posts to curate since our main focus is newcomers. So even though we've become less strict due to how things are now there's still excess voting power that we usually spend elsewhere. So I don't think we really need to re-use the hive for more curation, but burning might be good for now, especially in this way, since a lot of inflation has happened over the last year of our token. Hopefully later down the line we can burn hive in different ways as well.
I was thinking about it, I don't know if it's a good idea to encourage people to engage genuinely with potential votes, because it could set a bad presitent and do the opposite of what is wanted, as far as comments go. Or maybe it shouldn't be said outright, because I can just imagine engagement farms starting up, or something. Then it would be too hard to actually know whats real genuine and fake genuine.
Maybe I'm thinking too much about it, but I'm imagining engagement hostages. A place where everyone is happy and supportive, but in a creepy unsettling way
It's just part of all the parameters and yeah, none of them guarantee you'll get a vote just because you're doing one thing a lot but skipping some other ones. Just a general health check that'll potentially always require a look from an experienced curator that's been through a lot. :D
I was meant to say too, if its curators that are needed, I wouldn't mind helping out. I do have a few things going on, but if I can help, I'm happy to
Stay tuned, we'll be opening it up to outsiders in a bit, we also plan on rewarding the good ones if they can adapt to our rules/restrictions.
Okay cool, let me know. As long as I'm shown the ropes I'll be able to follow the rules, so that shouldn't be a problem
I would be a good curator ... I got no friends jajaja nah but serious thats a great idea to have a system that set score content based on parameters so basically the curator already got a list of posts waiting to be review, idk about self nomination, I feel like it might not work in favor of the curators work load, imo the best approach would be to make it as automated as possible and by this I dont mean automatic, I mean 0 feelings just a queue that after the first filter (the score system) then gets upvoted depending on the content, actually IF (most likely not possilble) there was a chance the curator couldnt even know the author name would be awesome, then again that last one is not possible since blockchain.... just detach as much as possible the human side of SELECTING the posts and just let the curator do his job once he got the queue, curator clocks in ..... work on his queue.... clocks out when done
Haha yeah, what you're describing there at the end is something i worked on for a little bit but felt it may not be the right time to continue on. Basically a front-end that hides all usernames and votes that occur as well as pending rewards, you just get rewards at the end of the payout window without knowing who voted or didn't, who downvoted or didn't, etc. Maybe i'll get back to that a bit later as it could make for an interesting experiment I wish more people would've bothered to do with hive-engine tokens in the past instead of your regular command tips and delegate for vote garbage projects most are.
I go over the project in this post if you're interested in checking it out deeper: https://peakd.com/hive-181335/@acidyo/5a4a2dcc
Getting more curators who's not bias to just friends is definitely a right choice. Self nominations with a lil hive to pay is also a good idea (⌐■-■). I think the whole idea sounds healthy esp for the whole community. ＼(^o^)／
The activities level in general is pretty low, I'm also seeing less and less from people I follow, so everything to promote engagement, activity etc... is welcomed
Some might even come back if they feel more appreciation of their posts if they can self nominate for a review
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I am also hoping the AI will include a special filter of eliminating all "small" users that seems "under rewarded", that constantly withdraw hive with extra high KE ratings. IMO, anything above 1.5 is high already. 2, meaning this person constantly powering down. This doesn't need math scientist to tabulate I believe.
Burn is good. Send to NULL correct?
yes
KE doesn't matter much if the user is constantly being valuable to the network in different ways, what we wanna eliminate is those just posting, somehow getting auto/blind votes and extracting while not even caring about the community/value they bring to it, there's plenty of that so let's start there. :)
In my opinion, community contributors whom getting paid via VOTE, should be getting paid from the "liquid" portion that doesn't affect KE ratings. Unless it's a curator account that getting paid from vote rewards, if that's the case, KE ratings can go 1000. I was language translator for #esteem back in the days, and am getting paid via votes. I always have this idea of keep the SP portion so I can grow, and one day I can vote for others too. Haha. Guess I have too much day dreams. Later I have joined the curator group, and decided to NOT make anymore progress post. So, technically I don't get paid on my translation work anymore, to avoid work post being "curated" 😂
Was just sharing a small portion of my curator journey and tell you where I'm coming from, why KE become a huge part of my curation consideration. It's not wrong for community contributors to have high KE, it's just that I'm not buying but that's all.
think you mean HP :)
but fair points!
That time it was the other one. I didn't politically correct it. And it will be referenced as #ecency and #hp
haha politically :D
Now that we have this conversation, I am thinking of powering down that side and pump it here to further reduce my KE 🤣 can I get -ve KE? And my long time nickname so happened came with KE20🤣
Yes bid-bots did suck, although I used the odcb one many times.. 😀.. I can't say I am unhappy at their general demise. I have many checks built into my own voter which I have never released to the public domain, and HIVE being what it is.., it crashes frequently, not to due to bugs, but bad connectivity to the the eco-system.
Getting enough worthy writers to be even added it to is is my problem. It frequently exhausts the entire white-list before my VP threshold is breached.
yeah, it hasn't been looking too great for new authors either, but it's nice to be able to offer a chance at curating to outsiders soon i think, hopefully we won't be too strict early on as we're also often spending our voting power on other things/burns/hbd.funder with the current state of things.
I do get some of my potentials from people you have followed recently! I am all for 'outsiders' if they provide value and don't generate what I terms as 'fluff' posts.
😀😀..
Yo this is a good way to force us to be more active and engage with others users.
That way some good but ignore content can the deserve curation too.
2birds1shot.
It would a nice way to encourage the new users specifically. Honestly, what I observed so far looking at a few very ordinary posts being trending is a bit disappointing. The Ai tools would be advantageous to pick up the posts for a better curation.
I wonder why my posts filter out. I capture video & share. I provide updates. What's wrong according to you?
What do you mean by filter out?
I also publish daily post. Filter out means OCD never considers posts I publish.
OCD ignores a lot of already well rewarded authors as our focus isn't there.
But looking at your posts, it's hard not to judge how AI they all look and always the same thumbnail, etc, it doesn't come off good at a glance. Just some feedback.
Well, I tried with out AI also for almost 20 days
e.g. check this post - https://hivesuite.app/@sagarkothari88/a531ddda
Straight forward, hand written notes on what we did.
Except thumbnail, everything was manual.
What's wrong with AI thumbnail generation? Do you suggest creating by self?
looking for more feedback.
That's all i got for today mate
and don't get me started on your curation 😅
I took all the feedback & updated everything. Let me know what I missed.
It sounds like an idea worth testing at the very least.
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Buen contenido! De los mejores que vi hoy en Hive. Ahí va mi voto, seguí publicando!
the more knowledge the more opportunities
Greetings, the KE issue is debatable, but it's not the whole story. It's often necessary to withdraw funds from Hive to pay bills and cover unexpected expenses, but users who contribute to Hive should be considered instead of squeezing it dry. Another important aspect is interaction. There are users who receive many upvotes but don't even respond to comments on their own posts, which I find very distasteful. That's my opinion. I would like those parameters to include interaction with others as a requirement.
a necessary platform where users can promote their blogs with payments
because sometimes a good post gets lost in a pile of other posts