You are viewing a single comment's thread from:

RE: New Citizens

in #dcity10 months ago (edited)

like technologies, tax, student debt, experiments, sim club to keep people collecting at least up to 1m? Yes.
Tho remember that players already received option with tax years ago to reduce inflation if they are concerned about same thing. Some of them were concern opposite way, that if we print less value will drop... I was joking many times that people like to sell more tokens for less $. So, concerns like that are pure abstract for me already. Someone could say that players lost they round and now am playing my round again :)

Sort:  

like technologies, tax, student debt, experiments, sim club to keep people collecting at least up to 1m. Yes.

All these game mechanics (encouraging burning or holding SIM) has kept the price stable around 0.00031 which results in a 94% income tax. When rewards were HIVE, the players (at least) had the option to re-invest into SIM, potentially raising the value of SIM and potentially lowering the income tax. With SIM rewards, the only options are hold, burn or sell.

Imagine this discussion 2 years ago with 5-8m printing SIM daily when higher tax from president for 2 weeks would be equal to 1 year of incoming SIM ranking rewards. Players didn't care at all for two years driving price down to the very bottom, and forcing max game limitation on inflation(very high income tax). Whatever we you say about marginal SIM distribution sounds like a joke now :) might be little late. Discussion that we should print hive(?) for ranking rewards instead of SIM doesn't make much sense anyway cause we can't print hive.

Possible it all needed to happen this way. Players need to lose first to learn. At the end there was almost no effort to reduce inflation at millions per day, now players have concerns about 100k

@dcityrewards I'm considering making some posts encouraging new player to join dcity, or at the very least investing in SIM tokens. Trouble is, the way the game is set up now, it is a tough sell. If dcity NFT's were minting SIM again (not just a few tax credits) and SIM showed some green bars, it would create a lot of buzz and interest.

Someone could say that players lost they round and now am playing my round again

There can't be a developer vs player mentality, if dcity is a game meant to attract new players. Are players really supposed to "beat the house"? Should game developers try to outsmart the players?

Although there is risk, this isn't a gambling outfit. Or is it? To maintain interest, gamers must profit some, while the developers also gain new players and profit, creating a sustainable ecosystem. But no new players, eventually no more game.

A good game is well balanced, fair mixture of chance and skill, interesting and rewarding gameplay. I'll leave it up to every individual to determine if dcity currently has these attributes.

I personally believe that dcity has great potential, if it can get out of this weird rut. Yes, it's up to "the players" to break free from this oppression, every player has their own self-interest, but the only "players" who can exercise their self-interest are those who have enough SIM power to do anything of consequence.

Players need to lose first to learn.

Players don't learn from losing, they get mad from loosing and sell off their city and all their SIM. IF they loose too much, that is.

this means players always losing, cause they want more rewards to sell, and they don't want to control inflation, eventually they crash economy and they are not even aware they control it, and then they are mad sell more SIM cause they earn less SIM cause they sell more SIM. Like mentioned -95% SIM bottom is full setup on income tax done 3 years ago. And btw no one should lose $ on dcity, if we distributed 4m hive for 1.5m hive received, additionaly gave players 2b SIM, some technologies, citizens etc. Your really need to want to lose to lose there...

Possible it is one of the best earning games on hive over time, basically distributed in rewards 10-20x more than received in hive. If someone lost money on dcity, it's achievement...
Imagine how easier is playing game for dev when you don't distribute hive and keep all rewards self printed tokens. At the same time how unclear it makes whole economy for player, you could make player know nothing about game economy and play game. I think people are more interested in something like that, where they don't need to understand, and participate (participation still happen on higher level as lobbying, lower tier players are just not aware that higher tier players set things up)

Maybe it means players don't play a game but dev, if players by themselves can't play it properly and at the end only dev decisions influence game, players possibility to make governance decision is just an option they rarely use, or in extreme situation. It's players who made it 100% tax over course of years, and players still decide to keep it 100%. If game setup is a problem, players set this game as it is set up now, by making governance decisions last 2-3 years(Even now taxes can be dropped to 80%, but "meta" changed and players now like 100%? or players are just not interested in participation and decreasing taxes). When players were earning 5M SIM daily, SIM had 120%+ apr on holding, every sell decrease inflation cause income tax, every sold SIM means you earn less SIM, and still it's pushed to the very max.

All these game mechanics (encouraging burning or holding SIM) has kept the price stable around 0.00031 which results in a 94% income tax.

it's income tax setting the price here, as maximum dumping range for SIM set by developer, with other taxes at the same time so players have 2 options:

  • dump SIM for inflation decrease so inflation is eventually cut by 100%(reality 95% price decrease, cause it's quite hard to reach 0 price, 100% decrease) so it naturally ends around ~95%
  • play with governance and taxes trying to decrease inflation before first option hits bottom

Now we use both option, or first doesn't work anymore cause players reached dumping bottom, and we use second(ecoinstant). Worth to mention is that max tax we had maybe for 10% of time, higher taxes for 15% of time, and 85% of time for last 3 years we had max inflation, millions of SIM printed cause players didnt want to control it they wanted more. Even some people had ideas that we need to print more to keep price higher. There is funny observation with players mentality, that even with max taxes set only for 10% of time players see it as forever. Even now after few months max taxes we could have 2 year no taxes, then again 1 month max taxes, players will complain that taxes are always high.

I try to make things delayed and statistically visible, so there is also observation process. Dcity is quite clear economically and statistically, it is quite visible what happened in past, even some mechanics can be observed on game charts.

Student debt mechanics were introduced 14-15 months ago with starting price 10 SIM. The one year chance players have to take some control before dev decision takes control. Imagine dev patience to make this one back then to still allow players to reach tax bottom instead of making it 100 SIM price from start and stopping SIM price at 90% income tax not 95%. It's all experience and players(and dev) definitely learning and are more aware how game and it's economy works, to the point that players from crying about high taxes now occasionally cry about increasing SIM inflation with ranking rewards or other mechanics.

Imagine having few tax refunds drafts ready years ago and just doing proper observation how players themselves deal with control of inflation, if they are able to understand and control it.

Maybe it's hard way, but with amount of rewards we distributed and still distribute we can do all the experiments we want to and learn.

Funny thing is, could be that similar events and economical changes also happening in full spectrum to other games, there is just much less clarity and observation and focus on understanding game economy. Possible sps already dropped more % than SIM in much shorter time, I doubt they automagically decreased inflation with taxes based on price. Or if they have any reduction mechanics, more likely it's all based on selling more stuff. Maybe they already have bigger problem than dcity with 100x lower players awareness about game economy.

Also reality is that we don't know, we all observe, learn. Even this perception on dev playing game from the other side, testing players and mechanics and himself.

Let me follow up trying to explain blockchain gaming economies.

We could ask how everything above is inevitable, will happen anyway?

Dcity sold all the SPS received from airdrop, significantly increased holding rewards, and distributed 0.5-1m$ rewards that year(hive around 1-3$ and I encouraged people to take profits), based on simple assumption that all that will happen there even at faster ratio as dcity had income tax, and whole process was delayed 3-4 years of decreasing inflation overtime to reach bottom inflation and maybe bounce up or stay there forever.

Possible it could also happen with any inflation, just price would be different, different range for price drop still 95%+ even if splinterlands would do 70% of airdrop, maybe different time range, dunno.

Possible you can observe same process in younger games I don't follow, they might have it all ahead of them, all depends from some settings.

Another thing is, even with mentioned by you mechanics claiming it holds price up. How much more money you are ready to spent than earn? Can you assume that players will spend more in game that they make in game. So they buy more tokens than they sell tokens. Hard to imagine.

Most of the time mentioned effect is temporary, quite often it's a trap, with temporary higher interest, temp higher rewards, or just temporary rewards, market situation etc.

Some of the other scenarios when it's reached:

  • nfts apr, when spending tokens gives you nfts, and player spends more tokens than earn, but makes it back with extra receiving nfts
  • fun, paying more tokens than earned, when player is satisfied with fun, and random cards, growing up acccount
  • general sentiment, if game over years already distributed much more rewards than took $ from player, so player whatever he spend in game is always in profit

With last one distributing rewards in non-game token like HIVE gives game advantage, much harder reach that, when all you get are game tokens endlessly losing value.