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RE: Come and Take It!

in MemeHive2 years ago

That is misleading data, because it ignores all the mass killings committed with knives in those other countries.

BTW, I'm from Russia (though I don't currently live there), and I can tell you that the overall violent crime rate is about twice that of the US, but again, the actual numbers aren't going to be nearly as high on account of the fact that Russia has about half the population. Furthermore, what is true of school shootings in Russia is also true of school shootings in the US: nine times out of ten, the perpetrator is a dejected young man who was failed by the system but had no prior criminal record, hence no-one was watching him.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Russian state media doesn't sensationalise mass murder the way that western media does. In fact, it's so rarely reported on that you have to do a lot of digging to find out about it. According to the Russian government, we don't have half the problems that we actually do.

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Feel free to show me the data where Child Deaths were caused more by knives than with firearms in the United States...

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It's very unlikely a bad guy with a knife is going to do nearly the same kind of damage as someone armed with an AR-15. To me it makes sense to try and tackle the actual problem causing the real harm. Tackle gun regulation first... tackle knives afterwards.

Knife crime is more of an issue where guns are not easily accessible, such as in Japan or the UK. It is as @jacobtothe has been saying this whole time: people with violent intent will use whatever they can get their grubby little paws on to commit violence. The underlying cause of violence needs to be addressed, not the implements used to commit it.

Edit: also, I have seen this deliberately misleading graph before. It omits children under the age of 1, because if it didn't, firearms would no longer be the leading cause of death.

Right... but a bad guy armed with an AR-15 is likely to do way more damage to a classroom of children than a guy armed with a knife.

That's my point. It's not comparable.

The graph isn't misleading, it shows that firearms cause more death of children in the USA than knives do. If your argument that knives are just as dangerous or more dangerous than firearms then I'd love to see some data on that.

The fact that you fixate on the AR-15 and you defend this misleading information means that you aren't actually interested in protecting children. If you actually cared, you would be proposing Russian-style gun laws. What I mean by that is that roughly two thirds of all gun crime in the US (including school shootings) is committed with handguns, whereas semi-automatic rifles are used in less than 1% of gun crime. Handguns are flat-out illegal for private citizens to own in the Russian Federation, but semi-automatic rifles are not (@apnigrich can fact-check me on this). I know of four school shootings that have taken place in Russia since 2009, and in every single one, the weapon used wasn't a rifle of any kind, it was a shotgun, which is the only type of weapon that a Russian citizen may own for the first five years of holding their firearm license. Everyone I've ever spoken to agrees that the five-year smoothbore restriction is the dumbest of Russia's gun laws, primarily because a shotgun does a hell of a lot more damage than a rifle.

I'm not fixated on the AR-15.

You said that knife crime is more of an issue than guns, and I was pointing out that someone armed with a high powered weapon is more dangerous than someone with a knife... and that knives don't seem to rank too highly in the stats of children's death in the United States.

I would absolutely support regulations on handguns in the USA. 100%! Completely agree. Making handguns illegal for private citizens in the USA sounds like an incredible step forward and I think lots of lives would be improved in the world's richest country if that were to happen.

OK. I have no intention of complying with your proposed regulation. What now? Do you believe your fears really justify using violence to coerce me into compliance? How does that make you the good guy in this scenario?

Just to be clear, I'm advocating for common sense gun regulations, not a ban on guns.

I'd love a ban on handguns, but I also know it would be extremely difficult and maybe impossible... so I think there are a number of important steps before it came to making handguns illegal:

1.) Require licensing/permits for firearms.
2.) Ensure all firearms are tracked and recorded.
3.) Impose gun safety requirements (lockers, separation of ammunition and firearms etc).
4.) Removal of firearms license/permits for other crimes.

Even these steps will be difficult, but I definitely think it's worthwhile to reduce the gun violence in the USA.

I see it similar to owning a car. You can drive around without a license and never be caught... but if you are caught then you risk fines and jail time. if you're firing guns on your property, hunting grounds or shooting ranges then you'd also expect to prove that you have the correct permits/licenses, or else risk fines or jail time.