With all the buzz around proposals, I figured it's time to put to paper a post I've had planned for quite some time. Everything said here is just the opinion of an insignificant stakeholder, but hopefully people will appreciate the logic behind my rationale.
Note: The intent of this post is not to outline any specific people or proposals to support, but to discuss ideas which will hopefully make those decisions easier and more effective.
Putting things into Perspective
The Problem
Hive is a young chain, even if you consider it 4 years old when taking into account the chain it forked from. There has been a plethora of dapps and projects which have attracted many divergent interests which make up our community, but the painfully obvious truth is we have a major retention problem.
The retention problem for new users can be summed up as:
- Misleading marketing
- Confusing and frustrating user experience (UX)
- Lack of engagement
This list could go on much longer, but I feel this is the core of the problem plaguing retention on Hive. Misleading marketing is setting expectations which are unreasonable and turning people away when their experience doesn't match them, the UX has made some great strides with things like Keychain, and front ends like peakd.com, but is still overwhelming to all but the most interested parties, and the lack of engagement can't really be solved until those first two problems are addressed, but it's a big enough problem that I felt it must be included here.
The Vision
Solving these problems requires an understanding of where Hive is going as a community and as a blockchain. We must have a vision of what we want this to be in order to address the issues in an effective way. Being a decentralized platform makes this complicated, since everyone has their own ideas of how best to proceed. While many specifics can be debated, an overall view of things to come can be ascertained by understanding how SMT's will play a role in our future.
The blogging platform we currently have been using is a proof of concept. It is one dapp out of many possible that uses the PoB reward mechanism to allocate a portion of inflation. While this has been good for initial distribution of the token, it's not sustainable in the long term without sinks that put back into the system equal to or more than is taken out. It also has certain downfalls, mainly about how rewards are distributed in this one-size-fits-all model with no real consensus on what is "good content".
SMTs will allow for this proof of concept to become more decentralized, allowing for different communities to use different metrics best suited for their own needs. Inflation, reward curves, curation/author percentage, and many many other factors can be uniquely tailored to fit each distinct need, while competing in the marketplace of ideas as to which ones best suit the values of their users. It will allow for token creators to provide sinks which can put back into the system to make up for inflation, and give the tokens real lasting value instead of relying mostly on speculators to drive the price action.
Goals
Defining our goals isn't easy, and this list isn't exhaustive, but it should be a good starting point:
- Maintain infrastructure to allow for stable use of the chain
- Create and improve libraries and documentation for ease of development
- Strengthen and add core features to appeal to a wider audience
- Make the Hive token more accessible to the general masses
How do we get there?
The DHF is our biggest tool as stakeholders, but we need to start prioritizing things in order to accomplish our goals. The goals above may seem a bit at odds with the problems laid out at the beginning, but we truly need further development to satisfy the prerequisites needed to fix them.
Maintaining the infrastructure should be a no brainer. And this includes supporting more nodes if things aren't stable enough or quick enough to satisfy the base user experience and also development to make nodes cheaper and faster to run. No matter how good the code is, no matter how happy the people are with the platform, if it's not stable and reliable, nobody will want to stick around for long.
Libraries and documentation are crucial for lowering the barrier to entry for dapp developers. I'm not a dev myself, but I've worked with quite a few, and from everything I've been told, many libraries need work, and documentation is abysmal. This makes it hard to attract people to develop the next greatest thing in our ecosystem. Remember, for every successful app out there, you will have thousands of failures. This is a pure numbers game, and our goal should be towards making Hive the easiest blockchain to develop on to give us the biggest chance for mainstream reach.
Core development should also be a no brainer. If you look on the Hive gitlab issues page, you can see there's no shortage of things to code, fix, and tweak. Approx 10% of the DHF budget is currently going towards this, and at this point in the game, with all the attention we're getting, it should be closer to 50%, at least in the short term. We need to not only roll out features like SMTs in a timely fashion, we need to make sure they're thoroughly tested by professionals to avoid bad UX and bad PR. We need to keep the momentum going, and hard fork deployments are a fickle mistress.
Making the token more available to the general masses can encompass a number of things; exchange listings, tools which make experience easier, and dapps that make it more accessible. There is some overlap with libraries and documentation that will make these easier, and together they can really help our ecosystem thrive. We want Hive to be available in as many places and to as many people as possible. Once grandma can get hive and use the blockchain easily, we have accomplished this goal.
In Conclusion
Doing all of this will empower the community owners, the users, and investors to market this token more effectively. In doing so, they'll increase the network size, the value, and the engagement. Once we're closer to these goals (we'll prob never truly be perfectly there), then we can start funding tools for power users, or throwing parties for ourselves, or even marketing campaigns. But for now, we must resist the urge to vote on niche things we want, and vote for things that will benefit the most amount of people.
If you've made it this far, thank you for reading my post. I feel there's so much more I could write about everything here, but it's too long as it is, and I really want people to actually read it to get this discussion started. I feel we're at a crucial point in our development as a platform, and if we do things right, then the moon is the limit.
Also, I want to hear your thoughts about this. Am I way off base? Did I leave something crucial out? Does this make sense to you? Tell me in the comments below.
It's difficult to ignore all the approved proposals are from the same people who are the top witnesses and also often have the top trending articles.
When stake backs you, it backs you everywhere you go.
Seems they need to make a concerted effort to listen to a few people outside of the circle.
However, I love your thoughts on vision and how do you weigh the value of something if you don't know where you are going.
Thanks WU. I'm not too surprised about the top witnesses getting their proposals through, there's a reason they're top witnesses, and that's because the stake trusts their competence. It would worry me more if they weren't getting approved, then I would have to figure out why. As long as they're doing what they say they are, I have no complaints. Time will tell, but if they're not doing what they're getting paid for, I suspect they'll lose even more than their proposal funding.
I agree mostly with that, however it seems odd they are the only ones doing anything as it seems like some different skill sets would also be valued.
Or it continues to be a project run by developers and techies, which so far hasn't worked out that well.
I will say that it wasn't due to people not being welcomed to help.. just gonna he honest..in a room full of 100+ people and a few posts inviting anyone who wanted to get involved (many “unknowns” were added due to their response there) - it was still only a few doing the work. I understand how it can look maybe like a closed loop, but I think there was actually quite a decent shake in the top witnesses and some people stepped up more than others. We are seeing the response to that I believe.
Imo this should become more decentralized overtime and we need to make a conscious effort to do so, but at the end of the.. not many people want to do the work when it's easier to just get the easy rewards etc.
I hope this improves and we as a community have the tools needed, or the base layer set up, that allows anyone who wants to to contribute. But yes, I think many are there due to work they did to launch Hive. The three devs proposals I'm voting for anyways are for that reason, as they are the ones working.
I've been watching the debate about your proposal carefully. Not the who did what arguments, because I wasn't there and didn't see that.
However, I am very interested to see if PR and Exchange work will be recognized and valued and if people are willing to assign a monetary value to that... and pay for it.
I would argue at this point that was the most meaningful effort impacting the price and visibility of Hive.
The developers could have made a quiet copy and no one would have cared and very frankly that is exactly what I expected.
I can't prove it, but I would say 90% of the value increase in both Steem and Hive have been directly related to PR and exchange listings. (say the name)
Good luck on your proposal, regardless of the who did what... when, it would provide evidence that things might really be different on Hive.
I'm just not that interested in relaunching my interest in watching development fiddle with internal development topics.
Oh, thank you. I didn’t really mean me here and most definitely will say that I hadn’t meant to cause such a debate or the crazy back and forth that had followed, but agree we need to find a way to compensate non devs contributions etc.
My comment above mostly was just trying to be open about the fact that many were given an opportunity to be involved and chose not to.
As I agree with this and that including more people with different skill sets etc can only add more value to Hive. Imo we have a diverse community here and if we can somehow find a way to encourage them to contribute, then everyone benefits.
I just wanted to simply say those who are currently being compensated from the DHF are those who stepped up to do the work, when others would not.
So totally agree with you we need to work on being more open, I guess I’ve also just accepted that sometimes it’s the same few involved as they are the ones stepping up. I personally hope that continues to improve.
Go away cunt.
Aw, you and those mean words.
:)
No fucking shit. When you have a select few virtual signalling greed filled cocksuckers who only listen to themselves and people with HUGE WALLETS, then NOBODY will believe the fucking bullshit that comes from these peoples mouths. Then people wonder why there is a retention problem? Because people who come here are not fucking stupid. They have eyes and can see how the REAL show is run.
WORDS are futile, when the actions don't reflect the words. So many bullshit artist salesmen on here, with pure self-interest and nothing else, sit at the top of the tree here, that it will just be a never ending bunch of circle-jerking between "friends". It's a complete joke, and if anyone has a different "opinion", they are banished to the naughty corner if they are not an "approved" member of the "approved" circle-jerks. But nobody wants to talk about how that's all this place really is. Let's all stick our heads in the sand and point fingers everywhere else except for the obvious places.
It will be a dead zone, built for the benefit of devs and large stakeholders to milk from the gullible. That's what it really is now, and it's all it will ever be, because of the arrogance of a few.
Just look at some of the responses in here. Nothing more needs to be said.
I don’t see anything that has to do with fun on your list. Sad.
What good is a social chain and community without games and gaming funds?
Put BRO on your list, bro!
There's nothing fun about building the power plant, but once it's done, you can power the stadiums. Don't get the cart before the horse.
Man...those power plant workers are going to be depressed AF. I’ll have to smuggle in some fun so they don’t all kill themselves before the power plant is finished.
No, it makes sense. Infrastructures, core development, etc. should be top priority.
Something I think people should do is to read the proposal without looking at who it comes from and see if it makes sense.
I think being influenced by the emotions that come with certain personalities don't help with decisions.
To a certain extent, I agree, but I would cringe if some brand new account got funding for a big project. There is the human element, but it's both good and bad at the same time.
True. But I think judging the validity of the account should come after reading.
That’s just me anyways.
What I find most interesting about the Hive decentralised fund is that it's the most unblockchain like part of the chain.
Take @justineh's proposal, I'm sure that'll get funded because I know how well connected she is - but there's no actual proof of the work she did on the chain is there, just a claim to a proof of work in her proposal, which outlines off chain work which was only 'witnessed' by a few.
Now this isn't meant as a criticism, I trust Justineh, and those witnesses who are no doubt going to vote for her proposal, and I don't see a way around this, but this isn't a trust less reward system verified by evidence of work on a blockchain, is it!
I think we just need to be up front about these things - maybe sell it as a strength - evidence of the fact that Hive is a truly social blockchain, because without the social trust in the background, and off-chain, those exchange listings may never have happened!
I think a lot of the same goes on with which Dev proposals are getting funded - people subjectively voting based on who 'stepped up' in the last couple of months.
Hive is people who work together based on old-school trust, who reward each other via a blockchain - the block chain is really secondary to the offline social contacts, right? I mean being a Discord regular I'm guessing you're going to agree with that!
So this leaves me with the fact that the chain is really just a technical tool so what you're suggesting about funding all the background technical stuff first, that makes complete sense!
Interesting perspective. You're absolutely right that there's a layer of trust that's built upon this trustless system. But I think that's the key for the future of any blockchain, the trustless layer isn't secondary, it's the prerequisite to building the trust layers on top.
I'm just voting everything that costs under 50sbd, those that seek to null dao funds, and the return proposal. If some big ones are close to being funded or unfunded I'll evaluate and consider. Also, I think I'll reconsider adding some important dev ones asking for over 50HBD a day soon.
for me priorities are :
maintenence
improved user experience
improved dev stuff
marketing
unimportant ones ive noticed are only offline meetups or gambling dapps ~ less than 50hbd a day is still cool.
as for the inner circle being on top, I think we can and are evaluating. I don't think anything is being finded that is terrible. as for justineh, she deserves funding for at least half of those 64 days and she said she will work for the other half. If her future results are even somewhat as good as her past results, it will be money well spent.
We can always turn off the gas if we think accountability or results are questionable until faith/value/trust is restored.
Any reason as to why? Right now we need blockchain devs, we need testing, and we need some expensive things that the huge powerdowns of stinc used to pay for. I think that as a community, we can get it at a much more reasonable price since we're not paying for an office in Texas, @ned's alleged ladyboy habit, and most likely a team of lawyers, but IMO the money is there to spend, and we need certain things, so why not spend it?
Well, I decided that below 50HBD requires little to no scrutiny. The truly awful proposals have no chance and for that price, even the alright ones are worth a shot.
After a couple days of thinking and considering, I am also voting for several more expensive proposals. But the more expensive it is, the more I consider it and the person behind it. Also, I do evaluate carefully mid proposal and if I feel it is too much or not enough is being done, I can remove my vote.
For example, blocktrades is asking for a staggering amount, but I realize, this is extremely important. It's a very rounded figure which is always suspicious, but blocktrades has put a hell of a lot into Hive and will probably make the expense well worth it.
I do think we should hire a few ladyboys for the next hivefest, we missed out on a good opportunity in Thailand, not sure about a Texas office or lawyers, tho.
The money is definitely there to spend, but I think if we establish better means for accountability and transparency it will be spent smarter and this will send a positive message to investors.
I agree with this, but I think this will require some trial and error, which is why I suspect you're hesitant to approve the higher cost proposals.
Right now I'm not afraid of making some mistakes to get things done. You gotta break a few omelettes to make some eggs.
Even though we tackled the problem from different angles (I coincidently have published "similar" post yesterday) we pretty much agree both on the problem and on the solution:) Your post will serve as one of my inspiration when I’ll be working on our "economic whitepaper"!
Very well-thought and presented! Not only did you present a problem but you discussed goals and a road map to making things better! Kudos, and thanks for presenting at PYPT!
Thanks Kitty! I appreciate you reading my wordy words.
The problems are well defined and your solutions are imo correct, the proposals voting system is another thing that could be adapted because I have the sensation that is something not very well structured. Of course we need development and infraestructure, but the managing of those funds should be imo revised more carefully.
The SMTs has been a tool waited for a long time but I feel that there are other priorities now, which is sad because would be nice to finally implement them.
Hive is as green as grass right now, the first thing to do is make it sustainable and with so many initiatives seems like we're losing the perspective in a frenzy of implement whatever is proposed. I understand that there is a new enthusiasm for our blockchain though, which is good.
Will be interesting to see other opinions as well so your post is very convenient.
The frenzy you're seeing is probably because there are more stepping up and contributing than I've seen before. On the prequel-chain there were a lot of very worthy, but piecemeal efforts. Here I'm seeing a lot more organised effort around core things. I expect a few more proposals for non-dev work to come out too.
SMTs won't be out on the upcoming fork (HF24), but I suspect they'll be on HF25 or HF26.
I'm writing up a post regarding this topic. Despite all the good intentions anyone may have for the better of our chain. Money still plays a huge factor, and humans + money can do wonders certainly but also the opposite. We just learnt that with the Takeover experience. Regards champ!
I'm optimistic, but I guess we'll see. Cheers.
While I fully agree with the priorities as you raised them, many "smaller proposals" from different people may deserve support as well (this is why all proposals are there after all). I believe that there are options to support them, even if the most significant part of the support is allocated to core development (which is what we need most at present time). I am just a bit sad those options are just ignored.
Moreover, I would personally love to see comments (and engagement) on the proposals themselves. This is how they could improve (and finally get funded).
PS: beware, there is a conflict of interest here. I however tried to answer objectively ;)
I agree to a certain extent. Things such as @inertia's $3 a day banjo proposal aren't necessary for any of those goals above, but the funding is pretty insignificant for what we're getting. However, in a perfect world, we would build our base up as much as possible, and then use that as a foundation to empower all sorts of projects, services, dapps, and whatever creative things people come up with to help the platform.
I think a lot of people don't realize that we will need to support quite a few failures before we get something that really succeeds. Once we're at a certain point, we'll be poised to support many of these projects, but IMO I don't think we're at that point yet.
I am fully with you on this one :)
Your assessment is well thought out and articulated @r0nd0n. Thank you for initiating this necessary discussion of the road ahead for Hive.
There are so many gaps to fill but I'm certain that we have the people able and ready to do those tasks and build those functionalities as they arise. We just need to get the reward structure right for propositions. That way we are able to extend our reach while stretching our internet money.
There is nothing wrong with running a lean ship especially now in the beginning. It insures that only people who really want to be here stick with it forged by fire. This being said... adequate compensation is a must to encourage people to step up where and when they are needed.
It was good to get to know you a bit on PYPT. I think hearing each other out with live discussion is great for creating those connections and driving depth where it's needed around the posts we create.
Just voted for your witness. I like the way you think about this blockchain and where we need to take it.
Hi @rondon
Nice long article, I smiled when you said you could write more, I know the feeling, but suspect my long articles don’t get read, so from time to time I break up the big ones into 3 small ones, if there are enough separate areas.... Anyway in regard to priorities; I can think of two; utility and ease of use.
First one is the adoption of a tiered Graphic user interface similar to the one created by Travelfeed.io, it features both an a easy sign up for crypto naive types and a regular Sign up for “crypto native”. The crypto native is just regular with master password and 8 keys. But the crypto naive sign up or easy is a clone of Instagram and Facebook, that buries the complexity of Cryptocurrency under self chosen name and password. It allows people to post, curate and learn. It’s a simplification geared towards encouraging adoption of the platform by people who want to blog first and build a community before investing time into learning the platform. They still earn under the hood and their crypto will be waiting for them when their ready to learn more.
Second is more basic and mainstream utility. While Steem had many Dapps in the top 100 on the State if the DApps, the price of Steem steadily declined. The dApps, the technology, the developer interest was there, but the price languished. Once again the utility thing needs to be first I think, but directed towards people who are barely crypto literate. I think efforts to get Hive listed on a DAPP that lets people use the crypto to buy stuff now would bring more adoption through utility. Right now you can pay Cryptofills with three crypto’s Bitcoin, Litecoin and dash, they convert your crypto to dollars, or euros. Then you get gift cards or top up credits. These gift cards are for hundreds of retailers and allow you to buy stuff from Amazon, Sony PlayStation, recharge your cell phone credits or buy video Agnes or game accessories. That type of utility is key to increasing adoption as a store of value must also have a mechanism for buying stuff people use everyday. I think a campaign to get the coin listed on one of these services followed by a campaign to get people using the service would really lead to increased use of the coin and increased value.
I am not a developer, so I don’t know how to create a simpler GUI, but I would be willing to work on the listing project. I just don’t know if I can speak for Hive, I really only speak for myself and what I think will help.
Now I have written a comment, that may be to long. But hopefully you will have time to read it and advise me where to take my ideas. I am thinking of writing a proposal for these ideas.
@shortsegments