in the milgram experiment they gave absolute power to normal people, while making them believe (that's probably why you talk about beliefs) that they don't have to take responsibility, just do as they are told, responsibility is taken by authority (in that case doctors)
and that is just how our society is constructed. everyone thinks they got some absolute power delegated without having to take responsibility
big pyramid scheme.. but you have to put in your life not just a few bucks..
look at police, now look at the new behavior police in supermarkets/ shops or public places
mostly these "securities" are people who can't even really speak the native language, neither be nice - cuz they have delegated authority and are being paid for doing that
win win - slavemasters don't have to do the shit job of guarding the sheeple, and other sheeple voluntarily do it
while the fucked and controlled sheeple don't want to discuss with "authority" sheeple
but I dont think I have to tell you..
You may have misunderstood my comment that pointed out that the Milgram experiment was fraudulent. Accomplices were recruited to abuse, and tolerate abuse, in order to create the beliefs that people are all corruptible.
People are not all corruptible.
The more people that demonstrate they are not corrupt, the more people resist corruption. This is why that experiment was fraudulent, so that proof of incorruptibility was concealed.
I do not agree that masters and slaves create a win/win society. All such societies have eventually collapsed under the weight of accumulated corruption.
Only freedom can enable society to win, by enabling every member of society to be free of corruption. This is my one goal: to be free until I die. I need allies against the corrupt to succeed at this, and cannot succeed absent a free society.
When you are free, I win a little. When we are all free, we all win it all.
what do you think?
This Learner Experiment is not the one I have thought was under discussion. I was thinking of the Stanford Prison Experiment, which was fraudulent. I apologize for my confusion.
I do appreciate the rational discussion of the narrator, who does mention some issues with the specific experiment, such as it's potential lack of relevance to society outside of the lab environment, or it's theatrical - staged - nature.
However, while it is actually impossible to deny that people can effect harm, even unto death, to other people, and even the nicest person, or Gandhi himself is capable of this, it is not always evil to commit such harm. The fact is that circumstances determine whether killing is murder, and some people need killing.
Additionally, I would not have participated in an experiment to deliver electric shocks to people. This is a demographic the experiment not only didn't measure, but that it deliberately excluded by only accounting data on folks that were willing to deliver electric shocks to begin with. It's deeply flawed as a result, and the narrator correctly notes that there is disagreement regarding the study in the discussion.
The truth that people are socialized and habituated to function within society does not obviate the other truth that people are sovereign, and cannot be forced to do anything. Fox's Book of Martyrs may be instructive, if grim reading, in support of this contention. It may be difficult to accept this fact, due to the difficulty of challenging our foundational beliefs, as the narrator mentioned, and is perhaps best stated by Twain, who observed it was easier to fool someone than to convince them they'd been fooled.
People are not all corrupt. It is a fallacy that many people nonetheless believe. Corrupt people do not want anyone to not be corrupted, and they lie as necessary to fool them as might gain strength of character from the incorruptibility of others to resist being corrupted.
I know it is not true because I have seen people refuse to bow to any threat or accept any bribe to do what they believe is wrong.
Finally, even people who were willing to participate in the study revealed they were only willing to comply to a degree. Many people, who must have believed the study was real, refused to continue to deliver electric shocks. Of those that did not refuse, it is impossible to ascertain how many knew the shocks weren't real, and the study was staged. Even corruption is limited, and 45% of the people stopped, meaning they made the difficult decision that they had been wrong and to stop.
The aphorism 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely' is false.
However, this seems to be a precious minority.
Here's a real-world example,
100% THIS.
In 2 minutes,
Here's a real-world example,
This is why we must DEMAND HOLACRACY.
WE MUST REJECT FEUDAL HIERARCHY.
many people say they aint corrupt but they all are..
there is a monopoly for money and a war against free markets, that's why they are called bad black markets..
everything that's not corrupt is illegal and criminalized
not many people that get this are willing to live a illegal/ criminalized life (who really wants that? we are peaceful beings)
so.. there aren't many that are free, and freedom has a big cost..
the corruption has an even bigger cost, the collapse of whole society (those few free people can't catch the whole world falling..)
the corruption is just too deep (base layer of all, juristriction, high finance money monopoly, psychologically..)
I also just try to not become involved in this system again.. but it's not easy, nearly impossible for me to earn money with my pain without supporting this system..
the brainwash on my friends is also not helping.. fuck tax and corona.. cuz of this shit I havent seen my friends, siblings, cat for over half a year
sadly I also don't have the power to live a free life, I just want to survive.. get some medicine against my pain.. somehow accumulate some fuck off money to survive the collapse and start over again..
Well stated.
It's too late, I lost