So I have been reading the Ethics of Spinoza again.
Anyone here in the Proof of Brain Community ever read this book ? It is said to contain a Proof for the existence of “God” ( see below)
Apparently Baruch Spinoza (1632- 1677) is one of the most important Philosphers of the early modern Period...
And yet almost nobody has even heard of him ????
His thought combines a commitment to a number of Cartesian metaphysical and epistemological principles with elements from ancient Stoicism, Hobbes, and medieval rationalism into a nonetheless highly original system. His extremely naturalistic views on God, the world, the human being and knowledge serve to ground a moral philosophy centered on the control of the passions leading to virtue and happiness.... Of all the philosophers of the seventeenth century, Spinoza is among the most relevant today.
Source: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/spinoza/
I have been reading and re -reading this book for many years trying to understand exactly what he is trying to say.
From what I can tell it is something like “if God is Infinite then everything is God.
Ie: God = Nature / Universe
Many people decided that Spinoza was an Atheist since the idea that Everything is God means that God does not exist.
Others consider Spinoza to be a Pantheist, which basically says that Everything is God (Divine)
It is also called “ Immanence”
Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity, or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanent god. Pantheist belief does not recognize a distinct personal god, anthropomorphic or otherwise, but instead characterizes a broad range of doctrines differing in forms of relationships between reality and divinity. Pantheistic concepts date back thousands of years, and pantheistic elements have been identified in various religious traditions. The term pantheism was coined by mathematician Joseph Raphson in 1697 and has since been used to describe the beliefs of a variety of people and organizations.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism
This is also similar to Monism or Advaita Vedanta or Non-dualism... Everything is One.
The word Advaita is a composite of two Sanskrit words:
Prefix "a-" (अ), meaning "non-"
"Dvaita" (द्वैत), which means 'duality' or 'dualism'.
Existence monism posits that, strictly speaking, there exists only a single thing, the universe, which can only be artificially and arbitrarily divided into many things.
Substance monism asserts that a variety of existing things can be explained in terms of a single reality or substance. Substance monism posits that only one kind of stuff exists, although many things may be made up of this stuff, e.g., matter or mind.
Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism
I became interested in Spinoza when I was reading an interview in Time where Albert Einstein was asked if he believed in God... and his answer was “ I believe in the God of Spinoza”
Time: http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,1607298-2,00.html
So back to the Ethics of Spinoza and his Proof of God.
This book contains a series of definitions and propositions and the First part is called “On God” In propositions one through fifteen of Part One, Spinoza presents the basic elements of his picture of God. God is the infinite, necessarily existing (that is, self-caused), unique substance of the universe. There is only one substance in the universe; it is God; and everything else that is, is in God.
Proposition 1: A substance is prior in nature to its affections.
Proposition 2: Two substances having different attributes have nothing in common with one another. (In other words, if two substances differ in nature, then they have nothing in common).
Proposition 3: If things have nothing in common with one another, one of them cannot be the cause of the other.
Proposition 4: Two or more distinct things are distinguished from one another, either by a difference in the attributes [i.e., the natures or essences] of the substances or by a difference in their affections [i.e., their accidental properties].
Proposition 5: In nature, there cannot be two or more substances of the same nature or attribute.
Proposition 6: One substance cannot be produced by another substance.
Proposition 7: It pertains to the nature of a substance to exist.
Proposition 8: Every substance is necessarily infinite.
Proposition 9: The more reality or being each thing has, the more attributes belong to it.
Proposition 10: Each attribute of a substance must be conceived through itself.
Proposition 11: God, or a substance consisting of infinite attributes, each of which expresses eternal and infinite essence, necessarily exists. (The proof of this proposition consists simply in the classic “ontological proof for God’s existence”. Spinoza writes that “if you deny this, conceive, if you can, that God does not exist. Therefore, by axiom 7 [‘If a thing can be conceived as not existing, its essence does not involve existence’], his essence does not involve existence. But this, by proposition 7, is absurd. Therefore, God necessarily exists, q.e.d.”)
Proposition 12: No attribute of a substance can be truly conceived from which it follows that the substance can be divided.
Proposition 13: A substance which is absolutely infinite is indivisible.
Proposition 14: Except God, no substance can be or be conceived.
The book goes on to further elaborate on these Propositions but it basically always comes back to his main thesis that only God exists. There is nothing else. (Ein od Milvado)
Now if you believe that God is an old guy with a white beard in the Sky who created everything and waits to judge you at the end your life then this view of Spinoza’s may be a very difficult concept to grasp. But if you believe that “God” is a great Infinite Mystery that is Omnipresent ... everywhere, and within everything ... a mystical spirit that we are all a part of then this concept is not so strange.
Anyway I was curious if many people here in POB studied Spinoza in University and ever decided to subscribe to his Propositions ?
Source: http://www.ethicadb.org/pars.php?parid=1&lanid=3&lg=en
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
This is great! I studied philosophy quite extensively in University and have continued to study it outside of school. I have not ever hear of Spinoza, but the logic is sound. It's kind of the obvious. When people asked me for proof that God exists, I would always just point at everything and say, "do you need more?"
Very interesting article. I as well have never heard of Baruch, but I have definitely heard of this theory before in my life. For myself the last two points of your article:
"Now if you believe that God is an old guy with a white beard in the Sky who created everything and waits to judge you at the end your life then this view of Spinoza’s may be a very difficult concept to grasp. But if you believe that “God” is a great Infinite Mystery that is Omnipresent ... everywhere, and within everything ... a mystical spirit that we are all a part of then this concept is not so strange."
ring true to me perfectly co-existing..... Not sure why a majority of people see these as separate because in my brain both are 100% true.... Religion is such a tricky subject to discuss sometimes, good job on the article, so far this one has been my fav to read on here.
Exactly correct .... when you come to this level of comprehension, how great this mystery really is then there is zero problem reconciling the concept of an old guy with a beard using Aramaic words and letters to create the Universe... this too is perfectly fine. Since Everything is God... this is why people like Albert Einstein, and Carl Sagan could use the word “god” when so many others could not. Their definition of God is infinite.
great post! Didn't know about Spinoza. I guess his ideas were revolutionary for his time, especially in Europe. Would be interesting to know if he was inspired by eastern thought?
I always wonder where we got that image from as it so clearly anthropocentric; I think leaving this idea behind is one of the first steps to discovering more about "god".
Yes... when I read his Ethics I can’t help but also think of the Isha Upanishad... have you read that one ? I will write a summary and comparison of that work with the concepts of Spinoza..... But it also reminds me of many of the Jewish and Catholic Mystics like Abraham Abulafia, Moses Cordovero and Meister Eckhart.
Don’t feel too bad. Nobody anywhere has ever heard of Spinoza .... neither did I.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this post and the discussion that followed.
Thanks for taking the time to read all the way through and also leaving a comment.
No no @offgridlife. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinion on a topic that many for whatever reason seem to distance themselves from.
Heard about spinzoa vaguely from the tiktok video i watch. His propositions are often discussed. I think i lean towards his definition of God.
God existence in different form. In the material word through creation, in our mind through our consciousness, and in the universe infinitely. God manifests through everything
It’s funny that people learn about Spinoza on TikTok and Youtube and maybe here on ProofofBrain.io ... but not in School. It makes you wonder ... who is working so hard to keep his work a secret ?
lol if i had to depend on what I learnt from uni to navigate through life I would be a simpleton. the education system in most countries is grossly inefficient.
I've never studied Spnoza. If you start with those prepositions I can see how you get to prove 'God.' My philosophy is everything is interpreted through the working definitions you are using. So if I say "god" exists and then define "god", then it is really this definition's text that is being proven should the proof lack logical fallacies and known to be true propositions. The word 'god' already has a loaded definition for most people.
Gold is solid at room temperature. Lead is solid at room temperature. Therefore Gold is lead by proposition 5.
A lot of these prepositions can be discarded as false without much thought to them.
Very True. ... the word “god” is loaded, definitions are endless....
So is the word “infinite”.... how do we define the word “infinite” .... is the Universe Infinite ? Or is it Finite.
I think that the key to understanding the Universe, or Creation .... is to understand the Concept of Infinity.
Who can explain why anything exists at all ?
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity#Early_Indian
Mathematically, we can say there is infinite of something if for any amount N, you can always find N+1 of it. I take that definition and if used to mean vast, I feel it is a misuse of the word. The universe need not be infinite to be boundless. The planet Earth doesn't have an edge yet it has a finite area. In the same way the universe conceivably could be boundless but have a finite volume. In the other direction, a circle has no end but it is not infinitely long.
Very true. And the circle could also be a sphere in another dimension like in flatland.... moving up and down to give the impression it is only a circle ....
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Flatland_(first_edition)/This_World
Slice an orange, the shape is a circle. Slice a hyper-sphere the shape would be a sphere. If the universe is the surface of such a sphere you have a limit of space but no boundary. If space is finite, it doesn't really matter because it is such a big amount of finite space.
Excellent ... maybe we can begin to solve the mystery of Space, Matter and Time on Proof of Brain ...
How Are Matter, Space, and Time Unified?
Source: https://www.nap.edu/read/10079/chapter/5
Hmmmmm..... very interesting..... What about a Slice of !PIZZA 🍕
@leprechaun! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @offgridlife.
Learn more about $PIZZA Token at hive.pizza
In no way, I think, does Spinoza give the best proof that God exists. Probably very few believers would say that. Spinoza just gives the argument that makes the most sense/like the most to people who usually don't believe in God.
Hilarious!
That's not a common belief, as far as I know. It's one thing for them to represent God that way...
Interesting topic you have brought up. Cheers!
Thanks. Yeah, probably not the best. There are many better.
When Jesus comes along calling God “Abba / Av ”... usually translated as Father or Daddy .. it sort of Conjures up the image of an older fatherly figure up in Heaven.... as he says to pray ... Our Father who Art in Heaven ...
So it is kind of a common image, I would believe. Most of the paintings depict him that way also. See the Sistine Chapel for instance. I don’t think I am the first one to notice this imagery.
It doesn’t really matter though ... these are all symbols and metaphors based on ancient Aramaic letters and words.
The word AB ... could represent the 2 letters Aleph-Bet
Our Alphabet (22 letters) who Art in heaven ...
I didn't read Spinoza. His proof is a logical proof. He is not far from saying, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
Yeah, I never even heard of Spinoza in School... it was only a few years ago that I came across his name in a Time Magazine Article about Einstein....
Einstein was asked :
Source: http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,1607298-2,00.html
Thank you @offgirdlife. I heard part of that interview quoted before.
Einstein is so much like a child and this is the best attitude to have in discovering what we do not know. Today we are a little closer to understanding the universe around us but we still know relatively nothing.
It's very much like you and me. I only know what you reveal about yourself. If I want to know more then I have to ask you but still it's up to you to answer. In the same way we know about God only by that which God reveals to us. A lot of that is in the world of matter because that's the world we empirically witness with our senses. Anyone who says this world is everything is like a man who puts his hand over his eyes and says there is no sun.
Yes... when you come to learn that 2 of the greatest minds ... Albert Einstein and Carl Sagan ... both admire and reference the philosophy of Spinoza it kind makes you wonder ... what did Spinoza say ?
How come more people don’t know about Baruch Spinoza ?
I think his just time hasn't come yet. Later someone will make a movie or an animation like Spinolli from recess. There is so much data today that it will take a lifetime to sort out what happened on this rock. And maybe some things are just hidden for a reason.
Spinoza’s Time will come.... speaking of Spinolli (Spinelli?) .... reminded me of Spicoli
This is our Time .... Here, Have some !PIZZA 🍕
@mineopoly! I sent you a slice of $PIZZA on behalf of @offgridlife.
Learn more about $PIZZA Token at hive.pizza
Interestingly .... For a time Spinoza was a Crypto Jew.... like many he had to conceal his Jewish identity, pretend to be a Christian and study the teachings of The New Testament. I believe in doing so he fell in love with his cousin Yeshua .. Jesus the Nazarene. And probably understood better than most what this great mystic (God Himself) was teaching ... the Oneness of God.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion or entitled to stick to what they personally consider to be a "fact" whether they are right or wrong,they are entitled to believe whatever they wish to believe....we cannot always agree on all things ,that is what makes life interesting....I have read the book before and I must confess that the author made so many valid points but well as a Christian of course I will definitely disagree with some of those points because it is against the beliefs of Christianity....
Yes, the Christian and Jewish Institutions of the time could not accept these ideas and Spinoza was banished from his community. I think some of the more mystical traditions of each were able to find common ground.
Yeah I think so too