If you and the people you were talking with all knew about the son's gaming habit it is already excessive and causing problems. Just sayin'
I've had a lifetime problem with the understanding of my motorcycle habit. I'm not a 1%er or even close. I am not all motorcycle all the time. Not at all.
But it IS my away time. Has been since I was 14. I've tried quitting completely a couple of times and ended up building resentment because I didn't have it. With the best ex I had a dirt bike that I could take out for a few hours a couple of times per month. It was not completely satisfying but enough. I really need to get out on the road for a couple of days per month.
So I'm done trying. I understand that sounds like a harsh choice, but it is what it is.
I get my female companionship from friends. It works for me.
I think part of it is about finding a partner that can truly accept (not just in the honeymoon phases) some kinds of behavior - but at the same time - if for example you wanted 5 days a month riding and that became 15 on average, that isn't really the agreement.
I like having something in common with my wife (dancing - though we rarely get to these days). I made it really easy on myself - I met her dancing - rather than try to convince her to dance :)
I don't know the guy directly, but I have taught his dad for 10 years or so and he was saying that the wife doesn't like the gaming - so it is probably too much. I had a friend in Australia have his marriage end after his addiction to World of Warcraft - and his wife was a stunner and a very cool woman. People make strange decisions in life to satisfy some pretty useless desires, while far more important things go begging.
I agree, and also there is always a financial component that is important too. Riding, or even having a motorcycle is not particularly cheap. I get it.
I could never impart that I wasn't riding away from my partner but riding toward me. A day or two out and my entire outlook on life changes. I mean seriously. I've said it many times because it's true: Every hour I ride includes a 59 minute vacation. I can relax completely and consider what is really important to me and my life.
My best ex would occasionally remind me that it was time to go to an AA meeting. Same sort of attitude change, often. She never, ever once said "I think you should go for a ride".
Addiction/compulsion in all areas of life is generally problematic to all parties concerned.
I think the cost is more important when it is only one party that is interested - if both enjoy it, cost is easier to justify - within reason.
I wonder how many things could become more healthy surrogate habits for addicts - do pets help?
The really large first step is to believe and admit that it might be a problem. Then substitute habits can come into play.
In drugs and alcohol there is such a physical context that has to be dealt with that the mental part is almost secondary early on.
I have never been much of an addict, so have to work to try to understand it. I noted from when I was very young that I was never really a fan of anything, sport or a band, a car manufacturer or a clothing brand - I have wondered if there is a relationship between the systems in some way, where people who "commit" to a specific thing in support are more likely to have some kind of addictive personality. Genetics obviously plays a huge role in all of this and perhaps my "disinterest" in a narrow topic of some sort is also some kind of insulation from addiction. I don't know - just speculating :)
You know? I've studied it pretty carefully for the last 30 years and I've really got no answers outside my self.
It seems to cut across all lines. I've been going to meetings in multiple locations for 30 years and I don't think anybody knows exactly why. I know I liked the effect of alcohol the first time I drank and was a black out drinker by the time I was 18. I actually straightened out some in my early 30s. If you call delaying the black out until I was home for the day straightening out. I was much more acceptable to society in that way. A successful day for me was if I made it to my bed before I passed out. Maybe 50% of the time. I was a trusted employee, and I did a lot of good work. A lot of shit work too.
Genetics doesn't seem to play a part for me. My mother's children have no addiction tendencies, and I've told my father's children that I am a recovering alcoholic and none of them have risen to that bait.
I just don't know. Amazingly, why is not even a consideration for me. What I can do to keep from that is everything.
I have a theory that the addictive genetics are going to present in different ways - if they present at all. Gym junkies might be alcoholics with a different focus.
It sounds like your life was a bit of a rollercoaster - do you think that if you had the option to go back to that 30ish age knowing what you do today, would you have worked harder to get a handle on it? (or whatever age would have been a turning point)
The kind of choice you made is becoming increasingly common.
I do not think that the outcome is going to be good on average when 20 year olds are making the decision for the rest of their life. I think we are seeing the results of that now in the depression numbers, as well as a lot of the social dysfunction that is happening. There are many factors compounding, social disconnection and a lack of intimacy is a big one in my opinion.
For the people who make that choice it's usually a huge relief. I'm guessing most guys who make the choice do it at middle age when they've gone through divorce hell - often the type that doesn't even exist in Finland unlike in much of the English speaking world. As for the 20-year-olds who choose not to pursue intimate relationships, I'm guessing many of them have had second hand exposure to particularly nasty relationship outcomes.
I wonder how long it is a huge relief for and how many end up lonely over time?
I wonder how many who go through divorce hell are also heavily involved in making that divorce hell - I would suspect that they play a pretty big part on average. Maybe it is a confirmation bias and they are the kinds of people who just aren't good in any relationship.
So rather than try and work at it, it is healthier to avoid intimacy?
I have no experience in that. But I guess it depends on the person and their situation. There seems to be a period in human life when the mating urges are at their strongest. From the late teens into young adulthood is the time when people are the most anxious to find a mate. That makes sense. But the urge gets weaker at a later age.
The legal systems in many jurisdictions in the Anglophone world play a big role in that. Divorces are very commonplace. Marriage by definition is not just between two people. Where contested divorces are commonplace, lawyers win. It's a system where women in particular have cash and prizes to win if they've married anyone with any assets. And I've heard pretty awful stories about guys who didn't have much but who were still railroaded by the system.
But anyway, it doesn't matter whose fault is what. If marriage has left some middle-aged divorcee with such a foul taste in their mouth that they are not willing to participate in it a second time, then why should these people be shamed into it?
Relationships always involve major trade-offs. As you very well know, a married man's time, money and life are no longer his. For some, that trade-off makes sense. For others, not that much. And intimate relationships are not some magical holy grail of happiness and meaning and not by far the only sources of meaning.
As far as I'm concerned, I will gladly let grown up people run their lives as they see fit. Who is anyone else to tell them they're living it the wrong way barring any illegal, immoral etc. etc. choices?
I think it would be helpful to separate "urge for mating" from "desire for intimacy and partnership", as they are two very different things.
Shamed into it? I think there is quite a difference between wanting a healthy relationship and a fear of ending up in another unhealthy one.
People can always do what they want, but I think a lot of people are making decisions early that are going to affect them later on in life in ways they don't understand. Like investing, many people look short term and don't factor in that they are likely to live til they are 80 years of age.
What I wonder is how many of the choices people make are made at their own volition, or are socially influenced by their surroundings, especially their digital worlds. Will they be able to overpower their genetic code?
Yes, if "intimacy" means something other than sex. I think it makes loads of sense to conceptually separate partnership, sex and emotional closeness . I've seen many older people on various forums write about how they're not looking to pair bond any longer. It can make perfect sense for these people. Many of these people are post-menopausal women whose libidos are gone and/or who have been widowed and who are fully enjoying their freedom.
Shaming is exactly what happens in a lot of situations. It often takes a subtle form where relatives and such keep asking single people, particularly if they are in a certain age range, if they're seeing someone or when they're going to settle down and start a family. I can happen to older people as well.
You, too, started blaming people having been through nasty divorces who do not want to remarry for possibly being bad at relationships, rather pointlessly, I should say. Because if someone went through a particularly nasty divorce and it being nasty was their fault because they're particularly bad at relationships, they why on Earth should these people of all be trying to get back into the relationship game? It's stands to reason that these are the very people who should stay away from relationships.
I'm sure that the choice to pass up intimate relationships (here we mean ones with a sexual component) is always made in spite of both biological urges and social conditioning. It is less so at an older age but still. You seem to think that there are digital worlds somewhere that somehow prevent people from acting at their own volition and make them choose to be single. No such thing has any mass appeal. Powerful biological urges, under which the vast majority of people live out their youths, and social pressures goad people into intimate relationships. If someone decides to stay away from them out of their own choice, you can be sure that it has always resulted from careful thought. In contrast, the decision to seek out intimate relationships does not require any thought at all. It is always the default position.
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