RE: Is There a Fix For Hive's Downvote Problems?

[allentaylor]

A $60 downvote won't affect you the same way it would affect someone with a reputation of 30. This is all relative. As a witness, I would expect you to make enemies. If you're not, you probably aren't doing something right.

I'm merely reporting what other people say. It's not all about Ken Code. There are MANY people, former users of both Hive and Steemit, who have negative feelings about these platforms about the very same thing. Can they all be wrong?

Comments

[themarkymark]

A $60 downvote won't affect you the same way it would affect someone with a reputation of 30. This is all relative. As a witness, I would expect you to make enemies. If you're not, you probably aren't doing something right.

Do you know 30 rep users (who are model citizens) getting $60 downvotes?

I'm merely reporting what other people say. It's not all about Ken Code. There are MANY people, former users of both Hive and Steemit, who have negative feelings about these platforms about the very same thing. Can they all be wrong?

People say a lot of useless shit. Again, show me where this is happening.

[allentaylor]

I'm talking about perceptions. If you have a lot of former Hivers with the same complaint, there's probably something to it. It takes all of a few days to make a reputation of 30. That's not enough time to prove oneself a "model citizen". As people join a new platform, they need some time to learn about its culture. If their first few experiences are slaps in the face for violating some unspoken or difficult-to-find rules, then they're likely to leave and not come back.

[themarkymark]

Again, please show me rep 30's getting hit with $60 downvotes. All I am hearing is he said she said.

[allentaylor]

If that's what you're hearing, you aren't listening.

[themarkymark]

My bad, show me examples.

[allentaylor]

I'd love to. You tell me a tool that measures downvotes. I've looked and can't find one. Here's an interesting post from a month ago that attempts to answer the question. I disagree with @demotruk's conclusion, however. Here's why:

1. First, the data used for his analysis is aggregated data and not all granular enough for a proper analysis. He's looking at total blockchain activity versus the number of downvotes. While that data is interesting, it doesn't provide an up-close view of individual cases, which is what is necessary for this type of determination.
2. Under Point #2, he makes this disclosure:

HiveSQL does not have any table which tracks the full monetary value of a vote, be it an upvote or downvote.

Well, if there's no way to determine the full monetary value of an upvote or downvote, then the discussion we're having is moot. Neither you nor I can show any evidence to prove any claim we make regarding the question. I think you knew that already.

He goes on to say:

To get the full value, you have to recalculate the state of the chain, which is too complex for my purposes here.

Since this is a complex issue, it's necessary to get into that level of detail. Has anyone done that? If they have, I'd like to see it.

In his "hack," he defines Heavy Downvotes as:

I define Heavy Downvotes as those downvotes with weight of at least 50% by accounts whom are earning an average curation reward of 1000 Vests (typically about 0.5 Hive) 7 days later from their upvotes.

Again, while interesting, that's not really helpful. Hive Stats shows that your own current voting power at 30% is worth just $23 and some change. While that isn't a lot, it can devastate a new user who introduces himself and earns $25 on an introduction post only see that gone in a microsecond with a single vote. A person with thin skin, a low level of self-confidence, and an imperfect understanding of the blockchain incentives system may just feel discouraged and reticent to give it another go.

He concludes that there is no "statistical" relationship between heavy and whale downvotes to user retention, however, I would conclude the relationship is indeterminable. He goes on to say:

I define Heavy Downvotes as those downvotes with weight of at least 50% by accounts whom are earning an average curation reward of 1000 Vests (typically about 0.5 Hive) 7 days later from their upvotes.

And to that, I agree. Have you seen such an analysis. Are there blockchain tools available that would allow anyone an opportunity to make such an analysis? I'm asking, and if you're an honest man, answer me honestly. If I conduct such an analysis and it proves that downvotes do not lead to a user retention problem, I'll make the post public and allow everyone to see for themselves.

[themarkymark]

I've looked and can't find one. Here's an interesting post from a month ago that attempts to answer the question.

I didn't see any large downvotes, or any downvotes on that post.

Again, while interesting, that's not really helpful. Hive Stats shows that your own current voting power at 30% is worth just $23 and some change. While that isn't a lot, it can devastate a new user who introduces himself and earns $25 on an introduction post only see that gone in a microsecond with a single vote. A person with thin skin, a low level of self-confidence, and an imperfect understanding of the blockchain incentives system may just feel discouraged and reticent to give it another go.

Again, just more stories and could bes maybes. Not actual evidence, or facts.

Imagine if someone with a broom ran around super markets and slapped people in the face? Oh man, this could be devestating.