well, which is that in the absence of agreement, in the absence of societal consensus, the future becomes impossible, and so in this sense, this also somewhat explains why there's an appeal for the sort of nostalgic leader who looks back towards the past to give people something that's stable, something that's in a very physical sense solid to hold on to. I also, I just love, and I want to reflect on it in the second half of our conversation, this observation about, one, the sort of evidence that we had entered this world with the 2016 election as an example, and distinguish that from looking to understand where did this process begin to go off the rail, so to speak. What are the causal factors? I think 2008 absolutely ruptured in a sense, people's belief, but I think 2001 and the invasion of Iraq, using words like freedom and democracy was in some ways more devastating because so much of who we are in the West is based on this idea of Western liberal democracy and capitalism is the (54/57)
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