economy and trying to inflate your way out of the problem. To me, that argues for sustainably higher rates than people anticipate as the world also struggles with lower liquidity levels. Is that another way of saying that the reason why you think we're in a period of structurally higher rates is because of the refinancing costs reflected in part in government deficit spending and the size of national debts? That's a part of it, but I think people's view on rates is conditioned by what's happened over the last 10 or 15 years. What has happened over the last 10 or 15 years is completely abnormal. People who haven't been in business in the financial sector, who haven't been alive for more than 50 or 60 years, just think that the post-financial crisis era was normal. It's not. I just think that we're going back to a more normal level of rates prior to the 2008 period. Part of that is, yes, sustainably higher inflation. That doesn't mean inflation is going to be 6%, 7%, 8%. But if you have (29/57)
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