supporting self-determination of free people to choose their own leadership, we are anti-corruption. So I do think that it was always inevitable that we would face that confrontation of values versus interests. Maybe you could say sort of in the Kissinger real politic mindset that Ukraine didn't matter, that the Caucasus didn't matter, Central Asia didn't matter, leave them all to be controlled and occupied by Russia and will focus on other areas. I think it's inconsistent with our values and not really realistic in today's foreign policy. I don't think there's appetite among Republicans or Democrats to do something like that. So I think that Russia was never ours to win, because Putin was always determined, not necessarily on world domination, confrontation with the West, but domination of his near-broad and reconstitution of the Russian Empire. And that was always going to bring us into a conflict like this. So I don't want to get stuck on this point, but I guess it depends on how (28/57)
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