policy. I was familiar with George Cannon's warnings after the fall of the Soviet Union about NATO expansion. And yet what's interesting for me is that I've almost come to the opposite conclusion, which is that I feel like I've seen more evidence to suggest that this was not about NATO. And in fact, Putin had two great opportunities to make the point. And he hardly mentions NATO in his interview with Tucker. It was interesting because Tucker kept asking about it and he kept ignoring it, right? I do think, look, I think it's more nuanced than that. I think the Meersheimer view, which I fundamentally disagree with, that was only about NATO expansion is wrong. But the view of the other side that NATO expansion had nothing to do with it is also wrong. I think it contributed. You know, I write in the book that there are five reasons why I became convinced, and we had the conversation on the podcast back in that time, in December of 2021, three months before the Swar, that Putin was going to (30/57)
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