As part of my working on the @v4vapp Hive Lightning Bridge, the lnd.v4v.app service for swapping small amounts of Hive or HBD for Lightning in various wallets easily and quickly, I've come to appreciate the nuances of the differences between various Lightning Wallet apps.
I'm talking especially about Wallet Apps on phones. The Gold Standard (Bitcoin Standard I should say) for Lightning is to run your own node. That involves having a computer (almost of any sort) with at least 1TB of SSD connected to the Internet all the time. Running a node like this is a reasonable amount of technical work.
If you can't or don't want to do that, you can use any of the following Wallet apps and if I've missed some, tell me and I'll try them and report. I'm presenting a list based on my personal tests (I have an iPhone) and how they work with my @v4vapp lnd.v4v.app service. This is a useful wider reference.
Hive is Non-Custodial - your keys, your crypto
Let's just get one thing straight for Hive: we're almost always talking about non-custodial storage. You control your keys, you might use Hive Keychain or HiveSigner or HAS to help you manage your keys, but they're yours and most Hive Dapps don't have and don't ask for direct access to your keys.
I'll also add that I have not being making full, on chain Bitcoin transactions with any of these wallets. I'm talking only about Lightning here.
Wallets I Can't Try but want to: Strike and Cash App
In the US you have access to two wallets I would love to try but can't. Strike and Cash app. Both of these claim to allow you to buy and then send Lightning direct from a fiat money account. I would be very interested to work with someone who can test this with my service.
Custodial - not your keys, not your crypto
However.... when we're talking about a few 100,000 Sats in the $40 to $200 range, I don't think most of us really care too much about the distinction.
Wallet of Satoshi
Wallet of Satoshi doesn't try to be a full lightning node and it just works. All the "wallets" are connected directly to a public Node which I have got a dedicated channel with. That means when the Hive Lightning Bridge sends sats, there are exactly 0 fees (as long as I manage liquidity properly.
Wallet of Satoshi has been around a long time and I find it is very well connected so able to pay to other services and wallets with high reliability and low fees.
But it is Custodial, always be aware of that. It does offer a log in via an email loop and way to recover your wallet on another device as long as you have access to the email you set up.
Blue Wallet
Blue Wallet is capable of being a fully non-custodial wallet when paired with your own Lightning node. But if you install and use it with the defaults it will run as a custodial Lightning wallet. Running this way I find it to be reliable and low fee when used with my gateway.
Chivo (El Salvador only)
I haven't been able to try this out but I do know that I have successfully sent sats to it. It appears to be a regular pooled wallet solution and in my limited experience I can send funds to it.
Non-Custodial - your keys, your crypto
The next two wallets I've tested with quite a bit. Both present different challenges because they both run some form of real Lightning node and because of this there are some challenges in actual use.
Breez
Breez is not just a Lightning Wallet, it's also got a podcast playing app in it. That's a big deal. If you put some sats in Breez you can then send boostograms and streaming sats to any value enabled podcast which includes all @threespeak channels and videos! Breez is the ONLY full Lightning wallet app that can play value enabled podcasts. There are other Value enabled podcast apps that can handle Lighting but they're not full wallets.
From the Lightning side Breez creates a full node on your phone which is a complex piece of tech. However this node hibernates when the phone isn't in the foreground so strange things occur with channels and being able to receive payments if you close your phone.
I've found that payments to and from Breez can randomly fail, then succeed when tried immediately after a failure.
Within the Breeze app there is also access to a number of other services. I like what Breez is trying to do, but I feel there needs to be a significant technology iteration before it is ready for wider use.
Muun
Muun has taught me a whole lot about the inner workings of Lightning! After a lot of work I believe I can reliably send Lightning to and receive from Muun but it took some work. Muun has some sophisticated channel management but does charge fees of around 0.25% in and out of the wallet. There is also a state which can happen if you try to deposit funds into a Muun wallet but you close the app on the phone. My Lightning system will spend up to 24 hours trying to make the payment! If the app on the phone is opened in that time the payment will happen and my system will complete.
Bitcoin
Muun and Breez both deal with full Bitcoin transactions in interesting ways but I haven't explored this functionality. I'm not really comfortable with storing a whole lot of Bitcoin in wallet apps on my phone.
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I have blue wallet on my smartphone. For sending they charged 0.00000160 Btc for slow, 0.00000361 Btc for medium, and at least ten times for fast. Medium fees can take up to 4 hours, fast takes up to 10 minutes. But I haven't actually used it yet. I could possibly transfer some BTC to the blue wallet if it's needed !
For quite a few weeks now, depending on the time of day, full chain bitcoin transactions are very cheap but you need to understand how the Mempool and fee rates work.
I need to do a post on this or try googling.
https://mempool.space/
If you learn to read this chart you can see that 1 sat/vB (which is the cheapest it can be) will probably get your transaction into a block within 30 minutes, for BTC this is great. You shouldn't be relying on BTC for instant confirmations, that's what Lightning is better for.
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I believe the above wallet apps mentioned will be helpful in some points and I appreciate your contribution and effort towards it as well
Looks like Breeze and Muun expresses some great features especially with your usage of them (at least to some particular extent) you said you cannot try out Cash app? Why is this? Isn't it possible with the other ones you've tried out?
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Strike and Cash app don't work here in Israel. I'd love to know if someone can send and receive Lightning with my lnd.v4v.app site.
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Well, it's same with Nigeria, Cashapp don't work, i wonder why this is so. I guess only a person in the US can do that for you.
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This is a great overview of lighting wallets!
Bookmarked :)
Not been using bitcoin for transactions for a while now, because of the transaction time. But this was something that happened between 2020 and 2021. But I heard with the lightening network things are way faster. This break down has given me idea of which to use.
Thanks for the post.
👍🏻 Excellent overview @brianoflondon! There is a lot of Lightning Wallets already, wow! I knew Wallet of Satoshi and used it before.
But now that I experienced the Exodus Wallet (available also for iOS) I use their Lightning wallet that is integrated into the App. Have you tried that too?
I'm not sure I get what lightening wallet is or why it's important to have one🤔🤔
Thanks for doing this. It is great to have tutorials on advancements.
Many develop something, which is great, but then presume everyone knows the second step. Glad you broke things down for us.
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Muun and Breeze are wallets that are user controlled and popular with more experienced traders. These non-custodial wallets makes sense because nobody but you has your private keys. Albeit if you lose or damage your wallet or forget your password, you could lose access to your funds. So it’s imperative to make sure you learn how to back up or restore whichever wallet you choose.
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Libre wallet powered by Proton Blockchain (EOSIO chains) is also interesting since it has integrated lightning payment. You can use wrapped Bitcoin (XBTC on Proton, zero fee) or BTC on lightning network for deposit/send. Love the UX/UI for first bitcoin users. https://www.libre.org/
I personally use wallet of Satoshi easy and simple to transact with some wallets like mun has capacity issue I believe if you request certain amount of sats thru it from an exchange most of the time it fails
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That is at good news, Thanks for share
So you say cutting balls get you in suspend, well for me it was something else, but yours is epic.
These accounts all work for HIVE exchange? - I can't use CashApp I believe ( I think I tried), but thanks for this extra long list.
I like how you differentiate clearly between custodial and non-custodial. good job here!
Interesting development, I hope it can already be implemented, it would put HIVE on the radar eye.
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Thanks, needed this info, was searching for a trustworthy source on this for some time.
I like using Muun
Is this service working ? https://dev.lnd.v4v.app/ why does it say "development only do not use" ? I tried to convert my HBD to 1001 Satoshi, haven't received it yet...
Where did you find the link to that? I'm trying to remove those links.
The live site is https://lnd.v4v.app
I'll return your hbd on the dev one later. Need to wait for the invoice to expire.
Ah ok ok, I see :) I found this link on the post https://www.waivio.com/@v4vapp/hive-to-lightning-gateway-fees from @v4vapp (it was the first embedded link "v4vapp Hive to LND Gateway is OPEN")
Wow you're absolutely right that is my mistake, I'll flush out your failed transaction on the dev side very soon and thanks for helping me find that mistake.
Your transaction went through the Lightning has been paid and you should have a message in your transfers on Hive.
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