that's amazing! Besides, I do not want to sound intrusive but I have been designing tokenomics for a lot of projects (even currently) and I would love to be involved in the evaluation if more developments will be required.
Great. I will give it a shot! Thanks for the hints
I could give you one of the bullet points of the next stage of "artificial" tokenomics that we're thinking of deploying to hear your thoughts on it.
I don't mind it being public as it's already been discussed shortly in the past and we're pretty open about things anyway.
Basically, poshtoken's expenses aren't much and due to the way it operates and what it attempts to do (bring traffic from web2 to hive) it has been allowed by most stakeholders to earn a share of post rewards on automated daily posts which is not something I would be for in other cases but given the transparency we've strived for with POSH and since there's been no pre-mine/team allocation I think there's value to be gained here this way for stakeholders. Similar to how @hbd.funder comments bring some value to hbd stability and profits back to @hive.fund I deem it a bit similar to it.
On top of that we eventually started the "delegation for part of posh issuance" feature so we now have 2 income sources, curation rewards and post rewards. After paying for developers, maintenance costs the rest of our funds go towards @poshtoken.wallet which buys up POSH (now also GOSH) from the market. This isn't to be confused with @null, we're not burning these tokens the way a lot of POSH has been burned either by users not being registered but still eligibly POSHing or certain banned users still attempting to game the service and their potential tokens going to null.
With these bought back tokens we have other plans, but before I get there I have to mention that when we first created POSH we set a limit of 1m tokens. This was years back when we thought SMT's would exist on Hive by then or "layer 1 tokens" that we'd move over to. Right now we're at around 550k tokens issued out and before things start getting close we've decided the best move forward would be to start decreasing the amount of issuance where before we hit 1M the issuance of "new tokens" stops and instead during the decreasing issuance of new tokens we inject tokens we've bought back since into the distribution.
Say for instance if currently there's 500 daily tokens coming out, 250 to delegators, 250 to sharers, every week there'd be 5 less being distributed. Then for instance once the daily issuance is at 250 tokens and decreasing every week by 5, we'd start injecting 2.5 "bought back" tokens into the distribution so it's instead decreasing by 2.5 every week but some of it isn't pure inflation.
This would create a layer of distribution of tokens we've bought back, people holding would still hold and not really know any better, those selling would then sell into a second wave of buying back tokens from our program. Over time making it even more scarce and valuable with new additions as usecases, possible new sinks and needless to be said deflationary in nature.
We'd also want to do more things with the website, give people a reason to check it out a few times per day, get some adrevenue going which would help on not just relying on the hive reward pool for buy pressure and in general build more things on top of the token. We think that the token is quite unique in the way it has been distributed and the fairness of it all, where the first airdrop only went to people who've been sharing hive content before the token existed and everything having remained community-funded with the main goal of supporting the hive ecosystem with potential traffic, adrevenue (in the future) and of course potential new users and investors.
A lot more plans for the website but I'll save that for the actual post, let me know your thoughts if this is a feasible idea or if you think there's some issues down the line with it.
A quick chart that could visiualize issuance with A being the regular new token issuance and B being bought tokens being injected into distribution:
A couple of questions to make sure I am on the right track.
By "stakeholders" do you mean "Delegators to Poshtoken account", "Token Holders", or there is a group of "Token Creators" that are getting tokens here?
What tokens (coming from what streams) are burned?
I see it. And I went to see that every day, on average, around 100 Hive are buying Posh Tokens. Where are these Hive coming from? Curation and Post rewards? Can you be more specific on what Curation and what Post are you referring to? Only PoshToken account posts?
I think that there is a lot of feasibility here. Let me know about my questions above, so I understand the "entering" and "outgoing" streams, and I will share some ideas
Must've said that wrong, I mean it's been generally acceptable that the daily @poshtoken posts get rewarded with upvotes, there haven't been people downvoting them or bringing them up as an issue as they understand this is how we partly fund the project and give the token value which in and of itself brings value to Hive. Since there's no one unfairly getting value this way due to the project not having had a pre-mine or allocation I've personally felt this to be an okay way to fund it and help the token price which in turn continues to incentivize people to grow their twitter reach when sharing Hive links, etc.
There are certain tokens that have been burned, these exist in the @null account, however tokens we've bought back exist on the @poshtoken.wallet account. These have been bought with Hive from post rewards and curation (delegation) rewards.
Yes only the @poshtoken posts and its curation rewards, although in the near future we may change how/what we upvote with the account.
So outgoing Hive streams are:
Incoming:
and as I said, if it were any other automated posts getting post rewards I'd usually be against it and downvote it myself but given the nature of POSH I think this funding has been crucial to maintain and grow the price of POSH which in return incentivizes more people to join and later potentially even bigger influencers when they realize they can earn some crypto for sharing good Hive posts on their web2, potentially even create an account themselves to share their own posts.
So over time, the more people have registered and started using POSH, the less tokens each and every person has been able to earn and the less have been burned, we do monthly stats of this as well which dalz provides.
Since we're closing in on the supply cap and there's yet to be a more "web2 income stream" such as adrevenue I believe that starting to slowly over time decrease issuance would have the desired effect of increasing the price of the token due to scarcity and at the same time more and more people joining and competing against it. Same goes for GOSH but that one just started out and is still in the infancy stage of issuance, but we thought to keep the tokenomics same for that one as well since we're yet to build proper sinks, utilities and usecases for POSH&GOSH to instead keep token issuance constant and hope demand comes from the sheer amount of users participating.
So yeah, I'm no expert in tokenomics but if say in a year or two no new tokens are being issued and the only ones being distributed are those who we buy back (hopefully not just from straining the post and curation reward pool by then) it should positively affect the token's value even if nothing new has been added as to what to do with it or growing the posh&gosh ecosystem.
ok. I see.
So, I will start from some considerations:
1. the @null account has more than 80k POSH tokens, meaning that across the lifetime (threee years more or less) more than 8% has been burnt.
I see that the burning mechanism burns all the POSH tokens from users not correctly registered. If possible, I would cut this one since some bots can start spamming to get the POSH tokens sent to the @null and then diluting the rewards and discouraging other users. You can eventually recirculate these tokens to the Genesis wallet. In this form you will not burn tokens for users negligence.
Token anyway, can be burnt to keep the deflationary process, but token burnt has to be done for other actions, like creating a small pool to incentivize the non-correctly-registered users, really registering and getting a small part of "null tokens" afterwards. In this way, you would incentivize people to register to POSH.
Example:
https://ecency.com/posh/@poshtoken/posh-1677103200199
49 "null entries", for a total of about 30 POSH tokens into oblivion. That's more than 10% of the distributon. It's a heck high/killing burning rate.
2. Reducing the token payment is correct. You will decrease the selling pressure and in that way price can slowly start to climb in value because you will keep buying it day by day.
If you add this to the change in the "POSH to null" behavior, I think that you have 50% of the solution already here because you can immediately reinvest the small treasure POSH will accumulate every day in the other activities you mentioned.
With bullet point 1 and 2, you may recover 30POSH that are not going to be burnt and reducing the daily incentive to 250 instead of 500. So the saved from burning POSH tokens will be likely the half, and you will be saving 280 tokens in total, 15 just from the Post distribution side.
If summed to the buy-back and the following point, I think we almost got a solution.
3. To incentivize the "buy-back", you can also create some small programs of content curation. Like I said about @ecency Boost program and like also @pgm-curator curator is doing, you send them tokens and if the post is deserving it get the chance of getting curated by someone. You can make people sending POSH tokens so you will have an "automatic" buy-back. To create this feature, and avoid exploitation of the system, you can ask for a minimum of POSH staking (with no APY, just to prove that they believe into the project and they support it by staking the token.
I gave a look at the POSH distribution and they are quite small (correctly, according to total and circulating supply). I would then avoid blocking too many tokens otherwise you would have the opposite result, so if you decide to go for this way, I would evaluate a minimum lockup of 1 POSH (for example) and a number of POSH to be sent to the account of a reasonable number to obtain (potentially) a curation. Based on how much flexibility there is on the smart contract of POSH we can also create a dedicated gamified way to make this to work.
4. Creating this new environment you mentioned would be definitely healthy. It would allow you to sell some marginal (at the beginning) features and creating buying pressure. In line with my idea of Curation (bullet point 3). You can also create some games (like the one from WIN on the TRX blockchain) to be played with POSH tokens and evaluate partnerships with other gaming guilds here.
Also small monthly subscription can help in keeping up the buying pressure.
For the moment, these are the first ideas I have. Anyway, I am interested in keeping the conversation up and running. Even on a call if you feel.
I can also share a "numerical" proposal but I will need to study deeper the ecosystem and getting some average statistics
Thanks, read this through and there's some great points especially about the @null burning that some either unregistered users or past abusers who've gotten banned are increasing the amount that gets burned that we may want to re-think. Great points, will keep the convo going tomorrow as it's getting late here, feel free to shoot me a dm on discord if you use it and we can take it from there if you like.
We're definitely excited about the future of the token, but are careful with overpromising or pushing people to invest as it's not really meant as a way for people to expect a ROI or profit since the goal has always been to just support the main concept of it, to bring traffic back to Hive. Before we started the delegation for POSH token I was for instance one of very few even buying the tokens to support the price so others could exchange it for some hive, but it wasn't sustainable long term so we had to change it up a bit (my airdrop when the token was created wasn't even that big, so you can imagine how many tokens I've bought up over the years, lol). We are happy to see it do well now and that all the thoughts, ideas and plans are coming to fruition thanks to some great devs who got around to having more time to focus on it and I'm looking forward to see what more we can build on it.
Anyway, thanks for your time and thoughts on this so far!
yes, I pinged you on discord. Same logo as here 😏
let me study what you wrote and deploy some evaluations.
I will revert here