Hey, @abh12345.
Well.
About this time a week ago, HIVE was trading around $0.12 USD on its way down to $0.11 USD on April 22.
Today, as I write this, HIVE nearly hits $0.99 Sunday morning for an all-time high and is now on it's way back down to $0.56 USD.
All this after Huobi listed HIVE towards the end of the week.
But now Binance lists HIVE (currently showing $0.46 USD), and the moonshot gets wrecked.
Woohoo! The rollercoaster ride is back and it's on HIVE!
Oh, and the HIVE honeymoon is officially over, too.
You may have noticed, but the natives started getting restless over the weekend.
What I find interesting is, the two or three posts I saw were from folks who a) were a part of making the move to HIVE from STEEM (and two), at least one of them was the same individual telling us stuff takes time, while now, I guess, up in arms that the trending page looks like a dev paradise?
Have you also seen there's a movement to improve engagement on HIVE? A community supposedly devoted to it, though the one question posts are getting stupid amounts of rewards while the actual engagement gets nothing, and a major curation community with an engagement initiative. People asking what needs to happen for folks to spend more time on HIVE (though answers about more rewards would be punished), and so forth.
And while you may be wondering what all of my rambling so far has to do with the Engagement List, it's this—there is one perfectly good initiative that has been going on for over 2 years now on STEEM/HIVE. It doesn't reward the posts people engage on, and while very generous to offer any prizes at all, it doesn't attempt to incentivize everyone for their efforts through rewards.
No, what it does is gamify the engagement experience through a chart of the top 100 engagers. Throws in some prizes if there's a sponsor, otherwise, everyone pretty much engages for free. Why? Because they want to. They like to do it. They may want to see where they end up on the list each week, but that's about it.
So, do we really need to reinvent the wheel? They all know the engagement list exists. No need to continue to fracture any more the already fracturing community.
Especially when those boohooing the level of engagement on HIVE and now trying to incentivize it with their own initiatives really seem to be among those who don't do a tremendous amount of it themselves. At least not anywhere I go that isn't a HIVE related post, which, it just so happens, they're also among those who regularly, if not incessantly, post HIVE related posts, and receive the higher rewards.
I know you're not really in the position to say any of this, and I know I probably should be the better man and not bring it up at all, and I certainly shouldn't dump it here, but I just feel it needs to be said.
You know what turns people off about this place (previously STEEM). It isn't so much all the HIVE cheerleading posts or the TA analysis or dev posts or whatever else ends up on trending. It's not completely the ongoing lack of reward distribution for whatever quality posts are, or how the reward pool even works.
It's not the lack of engagement, or the lacking of said 'quality posts.'
Yes, all of that together grates on the nerves overtime.
To me, however, it's really more the fact that the same people who are in a position (if not by themselves, collectively), to do something about it are the same people lamenting all the problems while also being a part of them.
I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm just trying to post, upvote the stuff I like, engage when I think I might have something to say, and not trying to look at any one small piece of the entire HIVE puzzle and attempt to tweak it because I guess I've got nothing else better to do.
Not all of us can afford to sit on HIVE all day, everyday. Not all of us really want to see the HIVE we're getting use to become something else all of a sudden because someone had nothing else better to do but sit around worrying about a problem that really doesn't exist, or isn't fixable, until they stop sitting around worrying about it and find something else better to do.
Like use the dang platform the way it was intended to be used and stop trying to self-enrich without doing that.
Am I done yet? I think I'm done.
Sorry.
Onward and upward.
Hey Glen, I just finished reading this through (the thread) and I agree with most you say and am pleased to see how polite you have been as you've made your points. I'd expect no less from a bloke of your calibre (caliber)
I don't want to get into lengthy discussions here but just wanted to say that I think many simply don't know what some of the larger accounts are doing behind the scenes. They sit up there in their ivory towers looking down on all the plebs (like me) and pretty much lord-over us...
Well nah, not really.
I also often feel a little frustrated that larger accounts don't comment much, certainly not on my blog anyway, but at the end of the day they need to be doing what they do so that I can go ahead and do what I do (create mediocre content) without having to worry about all that really confusing stuff they do.
I trust my brother will inform me of anything he thinks I need to know (you should hear some of our discussions) and I just get on with my own thing...Trusting that people are up there, in said ivory tower, doing the right thing. Doing something to push the platform forward.
I happen to know that @abh12345 is a rockstar on hive and the other thingamy we used to blog on, as is @justineh ...Good hard working people with the platform in mind. I don't know what they do, only that they do a lot of it. And I'm grateful to them, and others like them.
Of course there's also people doing the wrong thing, but let's not go there right now.
It's easy for me to observe them from my lowly position at the bottom, brandishing a pitch fork yelling you bastards...But like any community, certain people have their place; A role as such. I'm sure Justine would like to kick-back and blog and chat about guns or Lego like me, (or goats), but she's doing other stuff. Same with Asher and others I probably don't need to name-drop.
I don't know, maybe I'm missing the point of it all but I reckon (as we discussed elsewhere) that we need to change the culture here and I don't know how to do it any more than anyone else. But we can start by looking inwardly and doing what it is we feel is the right thing, for us the individual, and then throw that pebble into the pond and watch what happens, watch the ripples spread.
I'm thankful to the ivory-tower people way up there...If not for them I may be still on Facebook (thankfully not.) The thing is that they're not really ivory-tower-people...They're just like you and me...We're all the same and all have a part...Even the bad actors...They expose what's wrong here to allow the rest of us to address it.
Anyway, you're a champ and I don't reckon a hive-user here could say a bad word about you...That's admirable. Like us all here, your opinion matters. Thanks for sharing. (And thanks for the two mentioned above and @azircon for allowing you to voice your thoughts and responding so pleasingly.) Well done to all for a hearty, but respectful engagement.
Did the G-dog say engagement? Oh yes he did...Get on it y'all, it's a good thing.
Oh, one last thing...I reckon we should get rid of trending. Like literally just get rid of it. Just saying.
@galenkp, I always enjoyed your 'mediocre' content! They are superlative to me. I don't always get to comment as much I like to, as my reading is usually between things, while making dinner for the kids, helping them with homework, or between meetings at my day job. Therefore, I am not prolific in commenting.
Also for a while I stayed behind, because sometimes the public part of the platform becomes too noisy and attention seeking, and that is not something I enjoy.
I appreciate your detailed comment there and I know for a fact that you always hang around here regardless of what is happening to the price. Development of the social blockchain is supported by developers obviously, however, without people the social blockchain in useless. So 'people' are as important as the architects who are building the blockchain, perhaps more important. Otherwise, we will build beautiful Chinese cities that are unoccupied 😉
Source
Hey mate, thanks for your reply.
I think it's important for people to remember that someone else's experience here is their own and it's not for others to judge how they do it. Bad actors...Sure, they need to be addressed, but if someone (you) can't comment as much because of life then it's not for others to hold them to task over it. You do your part @azircon, not everyone may know it, but it's clear that you do.
Yes, the price rarely bothers me and certainly I've never failed to post here because of it being down...In fact when it's down I see a better opportunity to promote my work (and brand) due to less activity on the chain. Put simply, I like it here and so I stay. Thanks to people like you, Justine, Asher, my brother, Phare, Anomad, Nonames etc. etc. we have a place to express ourselves. (Abbreviated as it's a little try-hard to name drop with their tags.) You know what I mean.
Thank you for the compliment on my work. That means a lot.
Fantastic analogy!
Thanks for your input Galen.
I'm with you, creating mediocre content thanks to other people.
Poetic work. I'm about to set a few ripples off, damn coffee :)
Thank you good sir. Throw dem pebbles. (I skip mine...Seven skips so far is my best.)
Glen, I agree with most of what you said. I don't agree with some of it, but that can wait for later.
First, your comment above currently have $10 reward on it, a reward for engagement. But that can be zero by the time of payout, I have no control over it. Also I have actually used the common reward pool to reward you directly, and some may frown at that. Therefore, second;
I transferred 10 Hive to you to reward you for that long comment, thanking for your time. This is my money, I am transferring to you using no transaction fee and fastest network in the world! What do you say to that, eh? 😀
Hey, @azircon.
Wow. That's very kind of you. I'm not sure what to say, especially if there are some things you disagree with me about. I certainly don't expect you to do that.
Who knows. I might disagree with what I've said at some point. :)
Really, more than anything else, was trying to acknowledge the fact, while we can certainly do much better with engagement (and I've said that before, too, plenty of times), it certainly seems like at least some of the folks calling for more engagement now aren't necessarily going that far beyond their own HIVE-centric posts to find it, while people like Asher and this Engagement League have been doing it for over two years. All they have to do, if they want, is follow some of them around. :)
Certainly wasn't expecting the comment to gather much of anything, other than Asher's attention. That's typically what happens when I don't show up until a day later.
It's amazing to me how people can frown on things that others do when they themselves end up doing the same thing, just with stuff they like. Anyway, before I get off into that, I'll just stop.
It is awesome that we have a network that is so fast and that can be used to do such a things. Now, if we just had more businesses on the network accepting HIVE/HBD payments, and people earning it that way, we'd really have something. :)
Hi Glen
Well, as usual, I'm not going to disagree with much of what you have written, and understand the frustrations.
I was asked along with a few people to push the latest engagement initiative and at first (after re-hiving the post) I thought I'd politely decline. Then I thought, well if I can add some data and make my post a little different, why not.
They have all been heavily rewarded for sure, and hopefully now that people are aware, those votes will come on the best commentary. And then we have the gamification of engagement, with it's relatively small prize pool, where people take part, because they want to.
I see where you are coming from and I also appreciate the commitment from the larger stake-holders to support those oiling the chain. So I'll just nod and sit on the fence if that's alright with you :)
Onwards, upwards, down a fair bit, and hopefully upwards again at some point.
I got done writing that comment and paused for quite a bit before posting. Did some editing, too, beforehand, so I'm glad to see I'm not banned from this post for life. :)
Well, as I alluded to above, being a community leader tends to make you to some degree a diplomat—you're not necessarily getting along to get along, but in the end, it's probably for the best. In my case, I'm kind of one of HIVE's lesser loose cannons—and only on occasions where those who are basically in charge start to whine about the fact that things aren't looking any better and trying to find a scapegoat instead of looking at themselves in the mirror first.
I say all this knowing that my own engagement and curation production is way off from where it was at this time two years ago, and even a year ago. I'm trying to improve that with whatever time I have between now and whenever I might to work, but then the production will suffer even more.
I just think if HIVE is your main source of revenue (however that might be), and you've got enough time to go around looking at the problems, you might want to look at some of the solutions already in place, and bolster those. Or follow those. It's great to have diversity of thought, and so forth—made a lot more sense to have more than one initiative back in the day when we had tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of users posting every day, rather than the thousands to lower tens of thousands we're mustering now. Now, we probably should be fostering unity, rather than continuing to come up with stuff on our own.
Okay, I'm rambling again. I guess it's a sore spot with me. It's not like I'm not going to try to participate in the initiative, mainly to bolster engagement (can't see how they're going to follow through with much of a promise to hit posts and comments with upvotes to any significant magnitude, but hey, it's early and I shouldn't be so critical about folks who are coming around to doing the right thing, especially when some of the folks involved have been extremely helpful with their higher SP, if not mainly responsible for the existence of HIVE in the first place).
It just feels like if some folks don't come up with something, it's never been done before.
Sigh. :)
heh :)
Well we all should be able to accept positive criticism and try to learn from that for the good, and that's how I read your response the first time, and more recently too.
I like the idea of a multiple pronged approach on this, but see where you are coming from on the support of long-standing initiatives - i might be a little biased here.
Curie/c-squared @carlgnash take a bow, had a comment contest running a while back and this current effort reminds me a lot of that.
Anyway, thanks for your comments, always appreciated :)
Well, I'm glad you read them that way. I'm not sure that everyone involved would read them as positive, or even necessary.
As it stands, I think I might have it out of my system for now—until the next wave of posts that inevitably come.
And in reality, I'm not opposed to these initiatives. I guess I'm just getting a little defensive of the engagement league even though it's not really my position or cause to take. I mean, I guess we all have some vested interest in it, but I in no way should be a spokesman for it, especially a self-appointed one. There are others doing better work than I am in that regard. Especially now. :)
So would you like me to stop working on exchange listings, communication for hive, c-squared and a Helping new project which hopefully will solve many of the issues I was attempting to discuss On a UI level to just sponsor the engagement leagues? As I'm a bit confused by your OP up there and think you missed the point of my post.. I have no issues with Devs on trending, at least they are actually contributing.. what I mentioned was the posts with no engagement being put up there due to auto votes, as well as those not on trending but simply shit posts to get auto votes. What I was asking, was how we can use content to further the platform and reward those that attract engagement.. I don't really have time to sit on Hive all day either.. but hey, here I am, trying to think of ways to solve an issue and improve the place that don't include Asher having to make lists and pay people, as I don't see that scaling too well. Perhaps.. just maybe.. if we had a UI that helped people find the content they liked, and encouraged engagement.. maybe even some tipping on those lovely comments.. we wouldn't need to have all these curation guilds and projects. That's sort of my point. I'm sorry if my post starting a discussion irritated you so much.. I'll surely go back to what I was doing now and not try to rock the boat. Have a wonderful day Glen.. happy commenting. Glad some people will now be blindly voting comments.. that should solve it all 👍🏼
Oh and @abh12345 I'll throw 500 HIVE into whatever pot you have here as I surely want to be part of the solution and not the problem.
And oh hey! Looks like people can actually use that on an exchange when they go to dump it. Wonder how that happened?!? Must be magic.. everything here happens my magic..
I will see that 500 hive, and raise it to 1000 hive.
I do not have that much hive in my wallet and I am doing my evening walk. As soon as I am finished with the walk I will go to bittrex and buy 1000 hive and transfer it to @abh12345. I will post a screenshot at the bottom. I hope @justineh holds up her side of the deal.
If people sell it at the exchanges, no worries. I will buy it back and power up.
No I don’t think some people are blindly voting comments.
Well I know for a fact people are blindly voting comments, just like they blindly vote posts.. that’s sort of my point here - I want this to be a place people enjoy and that incentivizes the social aspects (both long and short content).. not be a place people come to make a post just to get an auto vote and blindly vote things as they have to use those 10 votes a day or they lose out! It should be fun, it should be a place people actually see use it.. and no I don’t think it should depend on curation guilds (even though I run one) or lists like Ashers. It should all be built in to the UI.. that’s my opinion.
As far as the rest, I’m just over the complaining and complete ignorance of how anything gets done around here. And the exchange comment was stating the only reason people can buy or sell that HIVE is due to work done that wasn’t this league .. or sponsoring this league.
If all I had to do was sponsor Ashers league, as nothing else needs to be done .. I guess I could have saved myself a lot of work. We could all just be happily on Steem commenting.. man I wonder if the others know we didn’t have to do all that 🤔
As far as the sponsorship.. I’m an asshole but am a man of my word..
Thanks for caring about the EL, you are part of the reason it's still going, and you don't have to be in the list each week to have earned, or keep earning that accolade.
The post got spotted this week, a large reward (thus far) and a batch of new joiners, I can't ask for anything more than that.
what is the "current effort" you are referring to? I am a bit out of the loop, just bought a house and moved IRL
Good evening Carl
The link to the original announcement is in the post with the tl;dr being, big stakeholders are going to vote engaging comments....
You've moved house again? Still able to own plants?