About a half hour after waking up and doing some exercise, I got ready to leave the house. As I reached the door, I heard a neighbor shouting. It sounded like it was below me, and I would have to pass by walking down the steps so I took a second to try and figure out what was happening before I opened the door.
A woman kept saying “Help me! Help me!” But I could hear 2 or more calm and non-violent voices asking her to calm down.
A felt a pang of guilt as I stood there. I have some friends whose first reaction would be to go and try and help her, but my reaction in these situations is usually to freeze until I understand what’s going on.
I weigh the different possibilities. If someone is attacking someone else, will I really be able to help them? I could call the police, but if this is not something so serious than could I be making someone’s life more difficult by calling the police?
What if I call the police and an exaggerated couples fight ends with a night in jail. I’ve seen situations where the police actually made situations much worse, even in countries where people trust the police.
I I generally don’t, although I don’t always assume them to be bad as individuals, there are a few great people who work as cops in the countries I’ve lived in.
I generally prefer people to settle things by themselves or with help from the community and I don’t consider the police part of the community.
Who is the community then? Well as a neighbor, I should be, but people in the city don’t get to know their neighbors and so I literally know nothing about these people. I don’t know who is trustworthy and who is a little suspicious and so I feel unqualified to make any judgement calls with regards to this situation.
If there is a fight, I can’t tell you which among them are more reasonable. I don’t know them.
All these thoughts were bouncing around. I didn’t feel panic but I wasn’t sure what was going on but since it didn’t sound like anyone’s life was in danger I took a moment to get my jacket and my mask and umbrella and make sure I had everything I needed for the day before heading downstairs to see what the hell was going on.
I guessed correctly, there really wasn’t much I could have done in that situation.
It was an older woman shouting “I’m not sick! I’m not sick” and her relative as well as 3 young people who looked like social workers trying to carry her into a van.
Oh man…this situation hit home hard.
My initial reaction is to side with the woman shouting “I’m not sick”. This places me in direct contrast to all the other neighbors who came out to see what was going on, and most people in society.
There exists this idea, at least in many so-called modern cultures that some people are “dangerous to themselves and others” even when they’ve never committed a crime.
There is this phrase “you need help” which basically stresses the idea that you need someone else to decide what is right for you and that can include taking medicine or being held by medical facilities.
There are situations where medical professionals and social workers can hold you down in order to bring you somewhere or to get you to take medicine. I don’t know exactly what this looks like and I imagine that it’s not as bad as portrayed in some films, but still…
This whole concept seems incredibly antithetical to the ideas of freedom and justice that so many claim to stand for.
This woman was being carried away against her will. I don’t care what she believes or what she’s done if she hasn’t inflicted harm upon others, I cannot support that.
“I’m not sick”. I don’t know if you are but even if you are, I imagine it must be terrifying to be carried away against your will, even by well intentioned people.
My parents had good intentions when they pushed me to take medication for ADHD that made me feel numb and the way it was spoken of made me feel as if I was broken. I spent my childhood feeling like my talents were a curse because I didn’t function the same in a classroom. Someone else set the standard, and so I was considered “different”.
My frustration with the school system and my own place in it led to depression and when I opened up about my complicated emotions, including some suicida thoughts, I was told that I might have to “be out somewhere to protect me”.
How does this kind of
Maybe you can see some of what fuels me from this little glimpse into my past?
I have released my hatred of order and structure, and for society as a whole. I have found ways to use my skills and ways to get around my weaknesses. I know without a doubt now that I was right, I wasn’t crazy, but I can’t help but empathize with people who have been put in a situation where others have power over them because of their mental or emotional state or the way they see the world.
I don’t care if they think they are a banana and the spider people are coming to get them. I can’t accept that others have a right to make decisions for them.
I understand that there are complicated situations in which people cause problems for their family or for the state, but just because we have services that can shelter or protect these people, doesn’t mean anyone should have the right to carry them away.
I feel like the justification for carrying them away is that they are disturbing the neighbors, but as a neighbor, I think this kind of thing is my responsibility. It doesn’t mean I have to drop what I’m doing every time for someone shouting “I’m not crazy” but her family members should feel free to knock on my door and ask me to mediate before they call some kind of service to carry her away.
The sad reality is that we are all too busy and stressed and have too many problems to want to deal with others and so we’ve delegated all of trust to institutions like police and Kenta hospitals to deal with these kinds of things.
Had I called the police, the police would have sided with the social services, and so would the neighbors.
…but what if she’s not sick?
And even if she is…I can’t help but feel for her and wish there was another way to resolve whatever problems led to her being carried away at the top of her lungs.
I wish we had time and energy for our neighbors and I wish we all took the time to hear someone out before letting others call them “sick”. I hope one day we can recognize sickness as a distortion that is both individual and social and stop pushing it aside and delegating the responsibility to heal to people with certificates.
She sounded unwell, but I’m still on her side. Her relative (daughter?) did not sound well either…
I hope she is ok.
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I can't help of think of how my father was dragged out of his bed, down the stairs and from the house in November 2009, during his psychosis caused by too much morphine following a triple bypass operation.
I wasn't there at the time ( I had moved out of my parent's house years before ) so I only heard the story from my mother and younger brother but I can clearly picture the situation.
Thanks for sharing this with us buddy!
Wow...it sounds like a pretty intense situation. Dragged out of his bed? Eeesh
I would have felt uncomfortable and in doubt as well. I have personally been on the other side, not the side where a relative wanted me to get admitted, but a loco partner that had bad intentions. When he hit me I screamed for help as I was scared, but he only did it when no neighbors were home. Looking back, he probably planned it this way because all the neighbors told me when I went to empty the house, that I should have told them they had no idea.
That's when I told myself that if in doubt about a similar situation in the future, I should at least offer my help to the neighbor when I would hear them scream for help. Maybe not on the spot, but maybe the next day. I know this can get out of hand real quick, and it makes no sense to put yourself in danger either as you don't know them.
It does feel bad witnessing this though, my mother has had these moments where she didnt take her meds and they came to get her as she was "a danger to herself and others" sometimes it was valid, other times it wasn't and all just a big puppet show if you ask me. I heard that one time she was put in a jail cell 2 days in her bathrobe where the cops didnt even bother to pick up some underwear and clothes when they took her, and didn't call me until 2 days later at 9 pm. That kind of stuff makes me fuming. Totally inhumane if you ask me. She was ill, and didn't need to be treated like a criminal, they took her from her home, so there was plenty option to take some stuff if someone is found half naked. But they didn't.
I hope your neighbor is ok..
Wow, you’ve been through a lot. Thank you for sharing it with me. It’s hard to understand this situation from the outside, and so it’s important for people to talk about these kinds of things.
I try to believe someone who claims to be a victim but if there are serious consequences for someone being accused I have to step back and try to get both sides of the story…but obviously if someone did something terrible, their side will be unreliable.
The best solution is prevention, changing the culture so that more people would stop themselves from hurting others and leave relationships that get volatile. Also having more places for people to go if they feel threatened. I think friends and family are much preferable to institutions, and I think neighbors could be another support system, but institutions can still be helpful for the extreme situations where people become violent or erratic and prove without a doubt that they are dangerous to others.
I hope to give people confidence so they’d never stay with someone who could treat them so poorly, but obviously financial reliance or threats can keep people where they are. That’s where community can help, having somewhere to stay if things get out of hand.
I was dating someone who was a little dangerous for a while, she was a textbook example of borderline personality disorder. I wouldn’t say she need help, I would say she needs to face her own trauma and stop projecting it to others, but I also wouldn’t want to see her locked up because she hasn’t really done any physics harm to others even if she inflicted a lot of emotional attacks on me.
Very very complicated stuff! Thank you for reaching out, and I hope you always give yourself the love you deserve! Hope I didn’t say anything hurtful or offensive here, it’s very tricky to see all perspectives
Sorry, got very busy yesterday. Opened Hive today, saw your new post and realized I didn't comment back.. No offense taken, if in any case, your view on something is different than mine, I can't blame anyone for that as I have experienced some heavy things that made me see the world differently, while before these events I felt the same as most others.
This is an important part, I had to go to "battle" with someone like that, while I had no intentions of even going to battle but settling things as normal human beings (even after his violence towards me). He was on a warpath and I could only deal with it, while at the same time he was telling lies to everyone around me. It's hard because at some point, I do believe that people start to question the victim thanks to those lies as well. Tough situation because if you're not close to the abuser, they have no reason to be mean or dangerous to outsiders, making them see a totally different person (read: the person the victim once fell for).
That must have been a challenge (understatement maybe). Those situations can be difficult indeed as they often seem to get misdiagnosed OR get e treatment that's actually meant for criminals (locking them up) while actually, they are waiting for the help they need. Sadly this seems to be very common nowadays.. :(
You're welcome, I've read more of your posts but sometimes get distracted and forget to respond. I will try to do better :)
I haven't done for many years (love I deserve) but the past years have changed me a lot, and the thing I'm most proud of is that we (my partner and I) have managed to crawl up from where we were on our own strength in a foreign country, now doing better than before the horrible events started in our lives..
I am glad you are out of that relationship, I really feel for you.
It is really sad when people do something bad and then they feel they need to double down in order to defend themselves for doing something bad instead of admitting that they've done wrong.
Yeah, it was definitely a low point in my life. I did not realize how common this kind of thing is, but I've since have strong boundaries that I will not let anyone break. If it's an accident or only words and only once, they may get a pass, but I do not reward any abusive behavior just because it comes with an apology.
It sounds like we are quite similar. My partner and I are also living abroad, and from different countries, and we learned together how to stop accepting abuse and to stop being abusive when we didn't realize we were being abusive. I am glad you are moving up out of that too!
Lol, it makes two of us trust me (actually three of us, because my boyfriend was a friend at the time I was in that relationship, and he was all too happy when I started to see the light). It's just so freaking weird that you wear pink glasses and your boundaries slowly fade..
What I learned, and so did you, so it seems from reading your comment, is to have a very good radar for people with these type of personalities and I will not allow them near my family. There have been a few occasions where work related friends of my boyfriend were invited in our home, and I instantly had radars go off, so didn't want them in our home anymore. At first, it was a bit of a struggle to make him see what I saw, as my radar can go off real early without any other signs to confirm, but I learned to trust that gut feeling as it has never failed me. While on the other hand, I have failed listening to it for years and it cost me a lot.
At least I grew as a person and learned some good life lessons, right? Got to try to see the positive sides to not dwell in misery. And I feel you, honestly I do, I know my strong reactions to triggers from the past ( maybe a word said by my boyfriend was enough to let me go off) have caused me a lot of anger, while in fact I wasn't angry at him, but still processing traumas and triggers. But I do believe if a relationship is strong enough to get through that, you can make anything work!
Where are you both from if I may ask? :) if that's too private, please just don't answer :)
Not too private for discord. I'm from the US. I can talk more about her off chain ;-) discord: whatamIdoing#4716
That is brutal, and also I think Japan would be a tough place to be a foreign resident with mental health needs. Even though I've never been to Japan, I know many Japanese people and have several friends, and a common theme is they all say their culture is not equipped to handle depression, failure, and other social problems.
The fact they have a word for "death by overworking" is very revealing. That being said, something in that country has grabbed you and kept you for that long, so I'm sure overall your mental state there is much better than it would be in the USA.
It was a local. I think Japan actually has a good foundation compared to other countries, but there is too much shame in taking advantage of it. What I mean is welfare and safety nets here are better than other places in a lot of ways. The problem I think is that people don’t talk about their problems because they are scared they will make problems from others. That’s leads to a lot of passive aggressive people in the workplace who hate their jobs and don’t have anyone to talk to.
If they look to western counterparts, that worry is justified, With all the complaining and arguing all the time. but I think we all need to find a balance.
My mental state depends most on my ability to do the work I came to this world to do. I feel it’s gotten a lot easier online, so location doesn’t matter as much to me anymore.
Community IRL helps a lot, but I always feel like a loner in the community because I like having my space. There are really nice communities here but it takes a while to bond with them.
My only real complaint is how normal obscenely busy schedules are but you find that even in their days off, people want a full packed schedule 🤷♂️
The fact that people don’t get up in my face ever is actually incredibly liberating though
Have you since confirmed with other neighbors that it was, in fact, a mental health issue? I'm so curious to know the other side of the story. Although I have never been forced into an institution, I have been arrested. Being detained against your will is no fun, no matter the circumstance. I hope that everyone involved with this situation is okay .
No real way to confirm. I don't know the neighbors, I don't know any neighbors, not even sure which room they live in and it's really not common practice to get so involved in a neighbors business, it would freak everyone out if I went around asking questions. I haven't been arrested but I saw it happen to friends, totally not fun, urgh