Generally, while I do not particularly enjoy being downvoted, its up to the user how to interpret these things. If we are going to engage together, building on HIVE, I think we need to come to the conclusion that "downvotes aren't so bad" and that there are different things that you can do about them and in response to them.
For example, I am currently being downvoted by @stickupcurator, after he got mad that someone else got downvoted by Zero list, which is a list that when users are on, all their rewards are zeroed. Some may say that this is "mean", but also it is a disagreement with rewards, which is a valid use of voting power. I sold my LGN tokens long ago and so stickupboys has decided to downvote me now while he powers down, and this is his decision.
It also, doesn't have to matter that much, "we can still be friends" - I really believe this. We can all accept less than perfect curation and we can all go about our business making content and building games and tools, putting whatever content we value being inside the HIVE blocks.
Some people might not know, but a project I am quite involved with - @moon.records, which notifies of big battles (hall of fame), records and kill streaks (plus Moons, of course), is on the Zero list.
But that doesn't mean we aren't going to do it. We are actively engaging Layer 2 rewards of ONEUP tokens with the comments, and we continue to fine-tune both the discord notifier, its Hive connection and the events that trigger such notifications. Its a fun use of the HIVE blockchain, I think. That doesn't give it a "right" to get paid. Maybe one day it could, maybe they should be prettier, idk. But I am proud of the development, the comment containerization, the webhooks, and the layer 2 rewardification. I enjoy building stuff!
We don't have to fight about everything. We should probably communicate more and better, and be nicer to each other. We are all just people, doing what they think is best.
Not every downvote is a "war".
Just keep building.
I don't like them but they are not the end of the world if you get a downvote. It happens in life and should be treated as a small problem.
Where the problem lies for me is in the zeroing of rewards by bigger accounts due to their large stake. If they disagree with a post then downvoting a few percent of a post would show they don't agree. Using their huge stake to wipe away the rewards from a smaller account is akin to bullying in my opinion.
I remember being targeted by Haejin back in the day for weeks as a minnow account. I think that i downvoted his account for 2c on a $50 post and then he spent weeks zeroing every post that i made. It was enough to drive away a lot of users but I managed to stick it out and stay active.
It's the same now with hivewatchers, blocktrades and some of the other og accounts that go out and nuke smaller accounts and drive them away.
A small downvote shows dissatisfaction, nuking accounts kills the chain. We have lost so many users over how posts are rewarded that we have killed the value of the token. If the large stakeholders had refrained from downvoting small accounts we could have 5-10x the amount of users here right now and a thriving economy.
It's short sighted and still happening.
It's a complicated topic, but it's true. I actually mentioned that in my post about downvotes. This type of downvotes or zero lists can prevent users, whether good or bad, from receiving a few dollars or even cents, but it has caused those users to sell thousands of dollars worth of HIVE, and if they were considering buying in the future, they will never do it now.
And sure, there are users that spam, scam, and don't bring any value at all, and they well deserve to be on those lists. Who determines that? That is why it can be complicated. Some users have committed abuse, either by mistake or on purpose, and many times, they are put on those lists without a second chance, and many times, they give up. It's very hard to onboard a user, and very easy to scare him away.
Just found this, it seems that Haejin had a very weak character:
Love the quote! Alex Hormozi is an incredible, resilient and hard working individual. I follow all his stuff.
Keep building, sir.
I have been told by Hivewatchers that I was milking the platform which is kind of funny as I was hardly making a $100 monthly while they get a bunch of funds from DHF.
As I have seen lately some prominent users have started talking about this Downvote abuse now it's the time to have a community to represent those who are victims of this and support them.
@eddiespino
I hope I can explain this objectively.
The anti-abuse work is important, and they do prevent and find a lot of serious abuse that happens on Hive. But it is also true that they mostly have a very bad attitude and toxic behaviour, they prefer to punish users rather than educate them, and they have indeed driven away a lot of people, maybe some of them deserved it, maybe some of them could have stayed and actually brought value to Hive. Still, too late to know now, they are long gone. Or maybe they are not gone, but still here using alt accounts.
And they do get a lot of funds from the DHF, and like other projects on Hive, it is simply not justified, at least in my view.
Sorry, I think that this was rather subjective.
This fund should have been used for marketing purposes, users' incentivization and other stuff.
True.
The problem is that so far, nobody has found the right formula to promote Hive.
We have a rally car that has cost hundreds of thousands of HIVE and has no tangible results.
A documentary that very few people have watched.
We have a sports team in Venezuela doing very expensive events, which, yes, has onboarded some users, but it has not brought real value or results to Hive.
Events where we meet a lot of people, but it's hard to share the vision of Hive, as it is something very hard to understand and explain fully. A lot of new people can join, but not many are going to be truly interested and become active members.
I could continue.
And I know that it's not easy, many of the marketing efforts have been made during a very harsh bear market, which hasn't helped to see good results in terms of price or user activity.
On top of this, everyone has a different vision of Hive and different opinions, and as we don't have a central authority, we have yet to define a clear and unified message.
Well, I believe that money may have been spent on guest posts, airdrops and other online stuff for advertisement.
Some of those things have been tested already.
I often wonder if we are talking about things or features that matter to people.
Crypto has negative connotations with some audiences, and they may not make the distinction between tokens and blockchain.
Some of the abstract ideas that we may value, may not be immediately cognizable to potential users of Hive.
That's true.
For us, it could be a no-brainer, because we already know the advantages firsthand, but for others, it could be either hard to understand or not attractive at all.
For example, the censorship-resistant feature might only attract a certain type of user, while many others might not care about it.
And the most attractive thing on Hive, which is the monetization, is really hard to promote because in certain countries it might even be illegal to make such claims. On top of that, if people join with that "promise" and see that it's not as easy as they thought, they will not stay active and will even call it a scam.
But unfortunately they look to be part of the status quo. If this sort of attitude continues maybe we may have a fork of Hive as well.
The blockchain is an open-source technology. In theory, anyone with the right knowledge could make a fork.
The hard part is to earn the trust not only of users or the community, but of applications, exchanges, and more. As I mentioned in the post, a lot of factors have to be present for a project like this to be successful.
Look at blurt, they forked from Steem and removed the downvotes as well as other things, but they have not yet grown enough. They are only in one exchange, and the value of the coin is very low in comparison.
Maybe we would get to a point where the fork is inevitable, maybe we can fix most of the problems we have, or maybe we won't be able to do either of them. Time will tell.
I am not against the Downvotes but it should not be used to bully others.
Agreed. The problem is that there isn't a system to prevent or discourage that.
Hey Eco, I agree with you. I think communication is key. I've also seen random downvotes from the stickup guys to newbies. I thought they were cool, but it seems that they are very angry. Let's keep building!
A few angry ones around here 😄 taking their ball home and spreading down votes to bystanders:
I see you have a few down votes; It reminds me of a friend.
But hey, wherever there are humans, there will be disagreements. Some deal with it like adults, some don't. Don't stop being awesome Eddie. You are and incredible human and hive citizen and I'm very much looking forward to hanging out with you again.
Keep building!
Thank you! I'll try to stay away from the drama and keep building!
I think some people are passed reasoning and eventually you can tell that communication does not lead anywhere because they don't wanna be told not to misuse curation, as was the case recently with stickupbois and freecompliments.
I've been trying to counter some of their downvotes, even when I don't fully agree with all the upvotes landing on those users either, it would probably be easier to just set an account that actively counters their downvotes even if it may cost some curation rewards seeing as they gone full malicious downvoting intro posts by newcomers.
There is definitely some idea that "we don't all have to fully agree".
I’m beginning to more and more see the use, and necessity, of downvoting. There’s two things in life that work, rewarding and punishing.
I do believe that in the middle, there needs to be education. And blind consistent downvoting without education is not constructive.
And indeed, downvoting is not war, nor should it be.
!ALIVE
!INDEED
!BBH
Downvotes are awesome. The best part of Hive. Negativity is important and good.
Best part… Well… not so sure about that :-) That would mean it would also become the most prominent part of Hive, and that would be good, and I don’t think that’s the way to go. However, I do see the necessity of downvotes in certain cases, for sure!
!HOPE
!PIZZA
!INDEED
!ALIVE
!BBH
!STRIDE
Downvoting is the most prominent part of Hive.
For me anyways.
I have had everything downvoted for the past 3 years so I sold all my Hive to buy Bitcoin at $17,000 and PEPE …. best thing ever. For me anyways.
Without all the Downvotes I would have never sold all my Hive to buy PEPE in 2023 …
:-D In that sense, I completely understand your theory :-)
!HOPE
!PIZZA
!INDEED
!ALIVE
!BBH
I was not aware that @moon.records was added to the zero list. Is this something they are not willing to negotiate? It's a pity otherwise... The Moon is not the first web3 project to utilize voting power for rewards (Actifit is doing it the same). I could try to use my PIMP and PIZZA tipping for those making it to the Hall of Fame, but it would be necessary that the comments are made from the player's accounts.
!PIZZA
!PIMP
This issue has been really hurting my heart lately, because I keep seeing people that I know, and that actively support both our own community, and Hive as a whole, getting all their posts zeroed out. For them, it is so utterly disheartening and demotivating, as they're giving their all to help Hive, and they're being punished. I'm not against downvoting, but it's a tool that needs to be used with actual care, because to me, if a Hiver's posts and comments are being downvoted with no communication as to the reason, it's abuse. From my perspective at the moment, I don't think that Hive will ever be able to reach its full potential if this issue is not resolved, such as a change to the downvote feature, where a reason must be given. I've come to despise downvote trails, because whoever controls the lead account basically has a weapon that they can wield at will, and if their intentions are not admirable, that's a problem. 😁🙏💚✨🤙
Agreed. Down votes are not the end of the world. They signal someone disagrees with you. You have a few options: engage in adult dialogue, ignore and move on, counter-vote or rage quit like a child and go on the internet telling everybody about it.
A lot of businesses get down-votes on web2 as well:
So it's not exclusive to HIVE.
and yes...
Agreed. -1% votes are not a declaration of war. sheesh.
Downvotes are beautiful and necessary. Negativity is needed to balance the positivity.
Balance is important.
Balance :)
Exactly.
Downvotes simply provide a necessary balance to any Upvotes on Hive.
We need to subtract from some to add to others.
Take from the poor to give to the rich, this is how it works in Communism and Capitalsm
The Oligarchs must take everything from the stinky populace
For every Great Good there is an equal great Evil.
I'm sorry someone hurt you, friend. I hope you find a way to move on find happiness again.
There is only Darkness here.
Embrace the Darkness
The moon records must flow!
Downvotes are Awesome.
They are a True Blessing in Disguise.
I have been downvoted to zero for no reason for 3 years now. But as a result I sold all my Hive and Bought Bitcoin, Pepe, and a few other meme tokens and earned 100 x what I had.
So thank you very much for the Downvotes.
Hive is awesome.
"Always look on the bright side of life..."
Amen.
That’s what I always say.
This is my Hive.blog Theme Song ….
Great timing!
Only Thanks to Buildawhale downvotes
I owe that guy a Lamborghini
I think it is better to stay with Bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana, Tron etc …
I post on Hive to highlight their Downvoting problem. … but I also get a lot of extra views on my YouTube videos.
Where I earn a few extra $$$ USD forever (not just 7 days)
Yes. I did well with Pepe, Dogecoin, etc etc …. I make a lot of posts about Meme coins and Memes on HiveMe.me …
Https://Hiveme.me
and earn tons of Meme coins that cannot be downvoted …. #meme #pepe #pob #cent #waivio #pimp etc etc
Hive had so much potential. All destroyed by a few Greedy people.
$PIZZA slices delivered:
steemmillionaire tipped ecoinstant
@borniet(5/15) tipped @offgridlife (x2)
Come get MOONed!
We are in disagreement. Does that warrant a downvote from me? 🙃
It could, to some and that would be OK. I'm not going to down vote you, but someone else could. That's the beauty of freedom.
Nice amazing very interesting
Congratulations @ecoinstant! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain And have been rewarded with New badge(s)
Your next target is to reach 20000 replies.
You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPCheck out our last posts:
Embrace the Darkness …
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that Downvotes -- for lack of a better word -- are good.
Downvotes are right.
Downvotes work.
Downvotes clarify, cut through, and capture the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Downvotes, in all of its forms -- Downvotes for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.
And Downvotes -- you mark my words -- will not only save Hive , but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA.
Link?
You have been added to the List.
LoL, but better you know that you also forgot to give me the link. to the Zero List.
Downvotes are beautiful and necessary.
Negativity is needed to balance the positivity. 😝
Downvotes force people to sell all their Hive to buy Bitcoin.
And that is a good thing. I’d rather have 100% of my Savings in Bitcoin.
Everyone that I know who sold all their Hive for Bitcoin are very very happy
Downvotes forces people to sell all their Hive for Bitcoin.
That is a beautiful thing.
So that is a Good thing.