A post that got noticed
If you read my last post you will have noticed that I put up a lease request for just over 10K HP. I never really thought about it but I guess it raised some eyebrows and a couple people must have checked out my username and dropped in to tell me why it won't work and gave me a little friendly heads up about circular voting. I never really thought much about it until I got a friendly Discord mention from @gwajnberg
In addition a little earlier in the day I was talking to @dlmmqb about his DCA bot and the Helios token. He advised that using Helios to "pay for upvotes" could lead me into a bad place on Hive.
I thought about that a lot so I figured I would write a little bit about where I'm going with leasing.
Supporting the community
Now I'm making a lot of accounts here in this community. The idea is to keep different delegations and investments distinct. If I have an account that only delegates to ocbd, or amazing drinks, or actifit or whatever then it is easy to track exactly how much return I'm getting on that one investment. With this account it is the same 100 swap.hive that I would send to any other account. Even yesterday I setup 100 hive to be delegated to @hive.voter and another 100 swap hive to be invested into the DMLLQB DCA bot. Each account is an easy way to see how 100 HIVE grows and exactly what return I get from it.
For THIS account I want to see exactly how much value I get from leasing HP with that 100 HIVE. It will give me just over 10K HP for just under a month. Will I get 8% return (80 Hive) or 12% return (120 Hive). Or maybe I suck and only get 30 HIVE back. I don't know the answer but with this account I'll find out! I'll also find out how hard it is to get a chunk that large delegated to me. After the first couple of days I've found out that it is unlikely to be filled. I also tried to cancel the request and make a few smaller requests only to find out that my request is locked there for a week or so. Kind of sucks but now I know.
and learning is the whole point of all these sub accounts
But when asked why I would willing accept paying 100Hive and only getting back 80? Is it really worth losing 20 Hive just to learn how leasing works?
Well, the short answer I gave was:
If you look at what this account gets I might lose, but if you look at the fact that those I upvote also get value then it makes sense.
That raised eyebrows
You see with numerous accounts I could just take this account, vote 10x a day for my other accounts for bogus posts and double my return. So if this account makes 80 Hive but the other accounts also end up with 80 Hive I get 160 back from my initial 100 put in. I believe this is called vote farming and that can get you blacklisted in short order.
There is also circular voting where I vote for them and they vote for me in a nice little chain. Something like I got in trouble for with @whaletail and I've learned my lesson there.
Then there is self voting which is a little more contested. If I write an article why can't I upvote myself? It is only one article and one vote and if I'm proud why not give myself a pat on the back? Some frown upon it and others wave it along as just the way the system works. If I'm correct its not encouraged but also not likely to get me banned (correct me if I'm wrong).
For me and the community
Now as you may know @tergan holds about 800 HBD as collateral to back the GLD token. Each month that 800 HBD makes its 15% in interest. It is my intention to use that interest to give back to the holders of the GLD token. My original thought was to distribute it directly to the token holders. Unfortunately that is the same as issuing a security in Canada and can get me in trouble with regulators here. However, if I were to use that money and lease HP? Well, then I could actively look through the best posts of those people who hold GLD and upvote their posts. Maybe even make a bot where people got put a !GLD into their post and get an upvote from the voter.
In that way this lease.gld account gets HP every month from curating AND I get to support people holding the GLD token. If I just distribute the interest directly to GLD holders, yes they get their portion of the 15% but there is no long term strategy there....better to just put your money into HBD than GLD. If I distribute it as upvotes? There is gain for GLD holders who actively participate on HIVE, no benefit for those who aren't doing anything, and the lease.gld voting account gets stronger with time. I really like that idea.
So, when I say I'm not worried if I only get 80% of my investment back or even 60% back. If I invest 100 Hive, get 60 back for myself and 60 back for GLD token holders? That's getting 120 back on a 100 investment. Some for me and some for others. I am quite happy for that.
But what about self voting?
Well, I wrestle with that and the @hiveabbyftp curation account. Yes it does upvote a lot of my posts that I put in the community. The whole point of the account is to upvote any decent content that is written in the Great Little Dragons community. The same can be said about the curation bots I started with a small investment to see how their upvotes grow over time (@gromphus and others). Am I voting for myself? Yes. Am I limiting how often I do it? Absolutely. The end goal is to use the sub accounts to upvote content from active community users and not to just make a big vote farm. Right now though? I'm the only person here trying to figure out how everything will string together.
The curation accounts are primarily out there following the Hive Learners, OCDB, and Leo curation trails and most of that upvote potential is going to them. I'll be doing the same with this account if I get the HP leased to me, I'll just make a fanlist of GLD holders so they get more benefit to them also.
I hope that doesn't run afoul of hive community guidelines....
.... but if it does I'd love to hear from the greater Hive community on how I can use leases to stretch the influence of the GLD token in a fair way.
Side note to @dlmmqb .. I'm still going to look into burning Helios to upvote posts but if it gives me additional value over the cost of a helios token I'll likely use it to upvote the best posts that ***aren't mine*** as a way to encourage good posts in the community :) I hope that passes Hive community guidelines.
Thanks for reading.
If you don't get your 100 back, then your next lease will be smaller and your community will get a smaller vote. You need to make the 100 grow to be good for you and the community. You can only make 100 grow with lease, by self voting or vote trading.
Leasing is always a loss, even if you try to count the author rewards that you are giving to your community. Using your current lease order, you are probably paying around 11% apr, so you will loose about 3% in curation rewards. When this lease is over, you will have less for your next lease, and your vote will get smaller and smaller at each round. Up until the point where there won't be any Hive left for leasing and neither you or your community will get anything. You and your community looses and only the lessor is winning.
If you use your own HP to vote, you get a better return, your vote increases every time, and your community will get a bigger vote as time goes by.
It's totally fine to self vote, when you do it once in a while. What's frowned upon is farming self votes, voting multiple times (main or alts) to take advantage of the reward pool. If you put leasing and self vote together, it will look bad as well.
Ahh. Perhaps I wasn't clear. At current rates I have HBD in savings which gives me about $10 HBD monthly. I can (a) give out that money to the community. (b) I can convert to HIVE or GLD and give that to the community or (c) I can buy hive, lease about 5600HP for a month and upvote for the community. If I give the money away its gone. If I use the money to get a lease I get some for next month and users get upvotes for the month. Win in the long term. You are correct, unless I get a cheap lease I'm unlikely to get my HP back...but I'm curious what % I do get back :)
Thanks for the reply. Appreciate it.
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If u can do it then whales can do it too. Their 1 vote can change what we see in trending feed.
True. Whales can do it. If they vote for themselves in a way similar to how they vote for others I personally wouldn't have an issue. However, if I was to take the lazy panda as an example. Usual upvotes are 30-50% for those people who write a good article on the post prompt. If the lazy panda decided to weigh in on the post topic because it was of particular interest to them I wouldn't have any issue with them giving themselves the same upvote. Its just on equal footing with everyone else who wrote an article.
Now if they decide everyone else gets 20% and I get 100% that would be equal to upvoting themselves 5x what they are doing for others. It skews the trending as you mentioned.
Anyways I'll tag you again on October 2nd as you asked. If things got misrepresented, well, that's why I'm trying to learn here before the community is "Open for business" and why I tag you in posts like these so I can get your input while there are few other eyes on the community (at least I hope there aren't too many eyes here right now...Kinda messy).
There r soo many things I wanna comment on
Can u tag me on 2nd oct as a reminder?
U decided to talk about alot of things in one post and some of them as misrepresented as well
Will be back here soon
Currently I am sick, flue, sneezing, coughing, dazzy, headache etc etc
I am not in condition to focus till I get better otherwise I will just mumble nonsense
U r already hivepakistan curator and can use /curate to support anyone 2 times a day
I don't know why u don't curate using hivepakistan account though xD