There are some things that I don't get with the release or non-release of the Epstein files. They say they aren't releasing some to protect the victims, but releasing them would be the only way those victims would have any chance of justice. Not releasing them is just protecting the perpetrators. But, even if they are released, what makes anyone think that it is truly all of them? Why would a government keep incriminating evidence of itself?
Trump is guilty.
Evidence or not, in my head, the dude just isn't a good person by any stretch of the imagination. I find him pretty much disgusting and the way he speaks and insults people to negotiate is very immature. I don't mean that it is childish, but his techniques are basic.
“Only a very bad, or stupid, Republican would fall into that trap,”
Donald J Trump
What the fuck kind of comment is that? Perhaps it speaks to his follower base? But if you read that in a novel or as a line in a movie, you'd say; The dialogue sucks. Yet people see him as a master negotiator? What does that say about the people he is negotiating against then, if that shit works?
My daughter wouldn't fall for that nonsense.
But when it comes to all of this Epstein shit, it should have all been released from the start, with victims names redacted to begin with, with all suspected perpetrators formally charged, and then taken off to court to defend themselves. No matter who they are. The victims could also then choose to have their names unredacted to give weight to the cases, and they could all write books as individuals or as a collective, naming everyone they believed abused them and when they believe they were abused. Then, let the internet workout whether it was possible, by looking at where people were and when they were there. Look at flight records, and credit card transactions, and whatever else investigative work the police are meant to be doing. Yet, after all this time and so many supposed victims, how many people have the police arrested in connection?
Just imagine how many politicians and celebrities would be named.
Too messy?
Fuck that. These people are potential paedos and sex offenders. If they are guilty, don't they deserve to at least go into the prison system for their actions? They lock up people for smoking a joint, but let paedophiles and rapists walk free. It is nonsensical.
Trust in government globally has eroded and conspiracy theories have exploded, because let's be honest, governments can't be trusted. If any group should be held accountable and be transparent, it should be the government, right? "We the people" should be able to cross-check and validate nearly everything they do, unless perhaps it is in the tactical defence of the country. But if Epstein's files are being withheld due to risk to the country, what does that say about what is in them?
If it is just a bunch of politicians and celebrities that get proven guilty of disgusting behaviour (remember there are supposedly many videos that were recorded also) and lose their self-entitled freedoms, then it is in the public's interest to know who these sickos are and see them punished. It doesn't matter if they are former or serving presidents, it doesn't matter if they are speaker of the house, or your favourite actor - if guilty, they should be punished in the same way as everyone else in the country would be for doing similar.
No one is above the law?
It seems, hundreds, maybe thousands are. And that is just those protected by the non-release of the full set of files in this particular case. All the people abused at a Diddy party, they should name and shame their perpetrators too - so why don't they? Is it too traumatic, have the been paid to keep silent, did they benefit in their career for being part of it?
I don't know, but if the governments around the world want to regain the trust of their constituents, then they are going to have to stop obviously hiding shit from the people they are meant to be serving. They need to open up their mess, air out the conspiracies and *prove they aren't true, if that is what the government is saying. The governments should be in the court of the people and defending themselves with evidence and openness.
If they aren't guilty, why are they hiding the information?
I have very, very low trust in the media and corporations.
And even less in the governments.
And there is very little evidence provided to convince me otherwise.
Taraz
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Yes, it should have all come out right at the beginning. It's far too late now for anything to actually come from it. Both sides have already cemented their narrative and rhetoric so that the followers are unwilling to accept the fact that something else might actually be true. I was reading the comments of a story about the emails today and what I said above became quite apparent as I scrolled through comment after comment.
I'd be careful of comments especially on large platforms. 95% AI bots to incite arguments. Especially a topic as big as this one!
If we haven't gotten the JFK files what makes anyone think we will get this one? :D
This one is even more contentious I'd say.
Nothing can be believed now.
My goodness! Anger from Taraz! I don't think I've seen that before. Welcome anger! We should all be very pissed.
Please, everyone, realize that all governments lie to the people. They justify themselves by calling lying population management. The Epstein farce clearly shows how stupid we are, we Americans at least. The story changes radically, and we pivot right along with it. Few of us become angry! We are blind to the corruption of our government in general. We still get up and pledge to the flag that murders indiscriminantly world wide.
Anger often births positive change. It's like fire, it's effect depends on how it's used. Someone can choose to get angry for stupid, empty reasons, but when anger is directed at wrongs, especially societal wrongs, change is not very far behind.
Anger is too strong. Disappointment in people? :)
Isn't it interesting how many people will fight for a flag that represents so much pain?
If they are released then you lose the black mail leverage. The “list” is pretty easily uncovered. Just listen to Whitney Webb, she uncovered this all years ago.
It goes so deep that I bet even the truth community would say it’s fake lol.
It’s just blackmail at this point - can’t let go of the strings.
I have little faith in the "truth" community these days. It is an internet circlejerk for the most part, full of people who don't actually think for themselves, let alone have experience.
It's like the motto Pablo Escobar operated during his criminal days: Plata O Plomo, translated silver or lead. Silver stands for money or bribes and lead for bullets or assassination.
I think that's two of the reasons why victims in a criminal case don't come forward, either they were bribed or their lives were threatened. I don't see the Epstein files being released while Trump is still in power. That's what ended his relationship with Musk. Musk maintained that Trump's name is in the Epstein files as part of the perpetrators.
Self-preservation is man's oldest and strongest instinct. And politicians have this instinct too. They don't want to vacate their positions or endure public disgrace, so they will go any length to suppress incriminating facts against them. And in their case this would be particularly effective, since they have all the resources of the state at their disposal and they control the state.
I read once about Trump calling for the arrest of former President Obama. But he can't release the Epstein files. Sheer hypocrisy. I think a panel that investigates American presidents after they step down should be opened up. There's a lot of nastiness brewing beneath that we all are oblivious of.
They weren't released when Biden was in power either. Seems both sides are well represented in them.
They don't even investigate before. Has Trump released his financials yet?
Rules for thee but not for me.
Exactly. And the rules they are breaking are disgusting.
I imagine that list is very long, very long indeed. I have some ideas of who may be on it, Trump definitely. I just find it crazy how many people blindly trust the government and anyone in power really, you know the ones who are really pulling the strings, the ones that are funding them all.
I know that I am not expecting to see that list released at any time soon.
What kind of world have we created where we actively put people we don't trust in power over us?
hand up here <-- im not American. I simply can't see how this man "is a good man". i just can't. Now i am one of the first to admit that the media play a HUGE roll in what we see of a person. they could take a saint and show a video compilation that shows them to be an asshole. However... jeepers... He does not appear in a favourable light on our media here.
At the risk of being inflamatory (which is not my intention at all) - Im still not sure what i think about all of this.. there is a line somewhere, and even i as a female with a strong line of "don't mess with my girls or i will punch you in the face-ness" am not sure where a line between being a horrible paedo that needs to be locked in jail for eternity, and a line where 50 years ago it was "socially, (and i mean socially nor morally acceptable) to smack a young secretaries bum on the way through the office...
While i agree there will be names in there that deserve utter condemnation, there will be names in there that perhaps don't, and i don't know how you release and check all the names in there without EVERYONE in there being guilty before being proved innocent.
I am undecided on the release for that reason. for what it is worth, i think the orange man is in the first of those categories... he certainly looks the type. beleiving he is above reproach... a dangerous quality in a leader.
BLINGIT
The thing is, I have always seen him as a creep, well before any presidential talk. He has been around publicly since the 80s, and was always an asshat and disgusting individual.
This is for the courts to decide, right? If they are in there, full investigations need to be launched into each and every one of them.
i agree with you here, i saw him on TV shows and things before, this. never liked the man. always creepy.
I agree, courts to decide... why should victims continue to suffer because some people might get wrongly blamed for a bit... however im just saying... (devils advocate) i can sort of see that as the only real reason... certainly revolting behaviour through and through.
The current US federal government is basically a Trump organization plus. And Trump organization has always been a criminal organization, so how would you expect them to release anything?
I don't really expect, but you'd think that there would be pushback from the US people, right?
I learned not to expect much from people. There was so much evidence before the elections of wrong doing. And he has been a president before and yet people voted him in.
Why would anyone expect these people to do something about it now? They are still convinced that everything is someone's else's fault...
There is a double standard where those in authority appear to be above the law, while regular people suffer severe penalties for small mistakes. If the Epstein files hold proof of wrong, they should be made public, victims have the right to search for justice in court.
They should burn all the houses down. Fuck the court.
So far concerning the Epstein files, I have not seen any reasonable argument presented by the government as reason enough not to release it.
The only way to get justice for the victims is to ensure that the perpetrators are put behind bars, but of the DOJ has said the files won't be released, it only means that the contents or informations are incriminating enough to dent the image of so called powerful individuals. And hiding it simply means that they're not yet ready to serve justice.
Well, I hope someday the powers that be will understand the reason they're seated where they are and that their primary assignment is serve the general public and deliver justice.
This is just one example of the many that exist in our society of how our government and its systems have always failed failed to deliver on the promises they made and always have something for cover up as I'd we're kids..
Someday isn't good enough, because the people involved are in power now. It has to be timely.
You made a strong point there when you talk about how the system protects the powerful more than those who fall victim.
If the goal was justice, then the fires would have been released with the proper redaction when needed. This secrecy is keeps on prolonging doubt and distrust.
People want accountability, not just the excuse.
There is very little accountability for the wealthy and politically powerful.
This Epstein shows how broken the systems really are. There are too many powerful people involved, so everything gets covered up without anyone complaining. These victims, they all deserve justice, not the silence we are facing now. Until these governments and media become so honest, this conspiracy theory will keep growing no matter what. We just want the truth, no matter how messy it can be.
Honesty is dead. There is only perception.
It's true that we have lost trust to the government because they are constantly hiding some information. When people see criminals getting punished for just small crimes, while bigger crimes that are committed by those top officials always goes untouched.
This is like an affair system. We need full transparency. This is the only way we can rebuild confidence back in society. No one should be above the law and that is it.
Few days ago I saw an episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit. There a 14 year old girl believed that she is carrying a child of god and wanted to marry her rapist. I think that people who believe in trump are also brainwashed like that girl.
Who is 'they' trying not to get the Epstein files?
Maybe I am too black/white in my thoughts. I honestly think it is a single person deciding not to release the files. That is the man in charge of the US government. The guy who gets away with everything, so it seems. Perhaps others influence him, but in the end, Trump is the one who can decide to release the files. Regardless of what others think. I mean, Trump knows he cannot be re-elected, so why listen to other forces, if he actually listens to other forces?
Yup! its all just a stupid, yet serious thing that is just an example of our messed up system.. :( but about Trump..
Tonight Alan Dershowicz said it best in an interview he did with Chris Cuomo, and that is people will just assume everyone on that list is a pedophile, just like many call Epstein a convicted pedophile despite he was never convicted as a pedophile. He said it's not meant as a defense for the vile things he did with underage girls, because he did, but the convicted part isn't true. He pled to sex with underage girl, or solicitation of an underage girl, I forget which one he used, as at that time the girl was two month shy of 18, which isn't considered being a pedophile. But people connect the former with the latter found. He also stated just like you did above, they'll have to prove themselves innocent, which is what he did when he was accused, he filed a defamation suit against her and her lawyers and the lawyers dropped the suit when he proved he was in a Florida courtroom on the day(s) the accuser said she had sex with him. But this overall brush people will draw just because someone is listed as having visited the island, or flew on the plane, or any number of places having been shown with Epstein, doesn't necessarily mean they ever engaged in sex with minors or underage girls. Epstein was, according to many, an exceptionally intelligent individual, and a donor to a lot of charities, that doesn't lesson how vile his acts were, but he hung in various different circles. That doesn't make those individuals necessarily guilty of sex crimes. Michael Wolff put it somewhat similarly, there was another side to Epstein that got buried underneath, whereas he could only be talked about or turned into this complete stick figure, the personification of evil, in which you can only talk about him from the victims point of view and it sort of robs him of any authority to be a witness to the president of the US, who for many years, they were close friends, the best of friends, perhaps the most singular relationship in the lives of each of them for more than a decade.
As defensive as that sounds toward Epstein, it's still a true fact, and it just doesn't rob him, it robs others who went down connected over this and ended up dying. There basically isn't many left to be a witness against Trump that Trump also spend his career being engaged with when it came to young girls. The ones that are still alive, those not so notable famous in the fashion world, more than likely, like Epstein told Wolff, became to fear Trump. There are things out there I've found before he ever ran for president, that we never heard in the media before, where lawsuits were filed against him, all those people can't be lying and Trump the only one telling the truth.
As for the girls, when you think about it seriously, most those girls were young and naïve, they are now grown women with families, it has to be really hard for them to chose between what happened to them, and safeguarding what they led their own children to believe during their upbringing. For example, it's a whole different thing to tell them you once aspired to be a model, to telling them you aspired to be a model so badly you let numerous men take advantage of you sexually, some maybe even abusively.
I think the other day there was one women who said it without coming right out and saying it. She was a girlfriend to Epstein. She said Epstein called her to his office to meet Trump but once she got there she knew it was meant for more than a meeting as Trump pushed her up against a wall and started groping his hands all over her, Epstein didn't say anything and she said she just let them do it. That's what I found odd, it wasn't that she said she just let Trump do it, she said she just let them do it. Normally when put that way, it makes it sound like Trump and Epstein were into three-somes.