Introducing DACTER - A Hive-Engine created opensource layer 2 based Hive account creation tool

in #hive-engine6 months ago


There are two ways to create an account on Hive. You can burn 3 Hive or you can use up a Discount Account Creation Token (DACT). If you're running an app it's not terribly attractive to be constantly burning Hive to make accounts. Pretty certain Matt and I are responsible for more burnt Hive than anyone else on the chain, so I think I can speak with authority that buying lots of accounts that way sucks.

The better way to create accounts is through burning DACTs. You earn DACTs by staking enough Hive to have enough Resource credits to perform the action to generate DACTS, if you have enough resource credits then you can submit a claim to generate the DACT, and then there's a separate claim to actually burn the DACT to create the account.

For a one-off account creation kinda thing it's easy enough to automate generating DACTs using Hive-Keychain if you muddle around in the settings. You can then create new accounts with them using

That all works reasonably well if you already have an account and want to make another, but it's inconvenient if you don't have an account and need to make one.

One of the key problems is that the people with Stake and thus DACTs are not usually the same as the people who want to create accounts for the first time. So, it gets a little tricky and involves a fair amount of trust to generate new accounts between parties. You may have to share a key or set active authority. That's scary to me, bad user experience, and not really necessary.

I brought up having fungible DACTs a few times, but it wasn't well received at the time. I'm not quite in favor with the Hive whales, so I don't see any good way to change things on the Layer 1. So, here we go again making tools on the layer 2. I think shared account creation via DACTS will be beneficial to everyone on the blockchain. If you don't like what I'm about to propose it's pretty simple: don't use it. If you do like it you can incorporate it into apps you run if you're making accounts or run a node to allow your DACTs to be burned to generate accounts.

Introducing the Opensource Hive Account Creation Tool: DACTER

The account creation service will have two modules.

  1. Core module - handles account creation requests from projects and communicates valid requests to the client module and responds back to the project.

  2. Client module - it is run by all the accounts who want to use their DACT for a fee to create the requested accounts from the code modules.

Step by step process -

  • Project registers with the core module and buys credits to create an account. one credit is one account. price is let's say 2 BEE per credit (configurable)
  • Project creates an API key to interact with the core module programmatically
  • Project displays a form to the user for details they need.
  • The project may charge the user if they want to in whichever currencies they want.
  • Once the project is satisfied with the user input and payment it will send a request to the code module with the hive username, all the public keys, and metadata to the code module for account creation. Please note that the core module and client module won't have access to the newly created user's password.
  • Upon receiving the request the core module will validate the data sent to it, and then route the request to one of the available client modules for creating the account.
  • Client module then creates the account and responds back to the core module.
  • The core module verifies if the account was created, responds back to the project with a success message, and then send payment to the client module and the account creation is complete.


So, you get that? Whales can work with Dapps on the layer 2 to create accounts for projects. The whale runs 1 verson and the DAPP runs a different version of the software. They can comminicate, create accounts, and the keys (or active authority) never leaves your own server.

It's not quite as elegant as the top 20 witnesses allowing DACTs to be fungible, but it's a nice solution on the layer 2 until it happens.

What are the steps from here?

We plan to release an alpha in early April. Whales can run 1 version and apps another. Whales can set fees for apps, and apps can set fees for users. We'll likely take a small cut, but still have to see the final configuration (because it might just be completely free).

Qui Bono?

Whales- get paid more to stake Hive
Apps - cheaper account creation than 3 Hive
Users - easier experience to make Hive accounts especially for first time hive-accounts
Hive-Engine- Small fee, maybe


Sounds like a great solution. Would it be worth running a client module with a few hundred DACTs or even less? or is it designed for larger accounts?

It looks like some witnesses want to lower account creation fee to 1 Hive.

Very cool.

But would be an L2 address like on ETH. People could ( with an update) import there ETH to keychain and post.

Sure they can post on hive directly but they could use a dapp and the dapp could post for them.

Not perfect but we would have from 1 day to another in theory all eth users on hive ( if they want).

I dont know how much work that would be, but only wallets with public keys without transactions could be maybe doable.

Or import on demand.

I mean i like the solution, but fees on wallets are always something of bad taste and make the hive token itself less valuable.

awesome, another problem H-E solves on layer 2, will be a very useful service for DApps :)

i am layer z

oh fuck yes finally

now help get a BOT like @banjo to create hive wallets

better yet get @tipcc on discord TO LITERALY CREATE WALLETS with Resource credits in teh discord ooh fuck stakable botw allets and delegationand rcs and accounts and spending 3 hgive from ur TIPS to create accounts lol

sounds good!

I must admit, this went over my head a little. This is what I know:

  • I can currently create an account for the cost of 3 Hive or
  • I can harvest my RC's to create account creation tokens or
  • I can use a frontend's tokens to refer people to create an account, putting a strain on their frontends.
    This is where I'm somewhat confused...
    It sounds to me like you want to create a system to create accounts on the 2nd layer, but you still need RC's on the first layer to do it. The cost would be less somehow and the middleman would be an account with a lot of RC? Can you explain it using other terms, per chance?

Everything you guyd are building is insane and amazing to the Hive Ecosystem! :D

Will a dolphin be able to participate or only whales?

estara disponible para todos aquellos capaces de crear tokens de cuentas pero me imagino sera a menor escala el uso para los delfines ya que por lo menos en mi caso produzco 1 ticket cada 2 dias si no me equivoco, mientras mas personas empiezen a reclamar tickets mas costaran y por ende mas demorara un delfin al menos uno pequeño en crear tickets lo que honestamente para trabajar con una dapp no creo sea rentable pero podria ser supongo si tienes varios ya acumulados.

Gracias por la respuesta, me imaginé algo parecido. Creo que lo mejor sería acumular tickets, quizás para cuando venga más gente y hayan más dapps; aunque si los bajan a 1 Hive se reduce el negocio XD

Anything that can be done to help ease the burden of onboarding new users is a great thing. Now, if only there were a way to let a new user "one-click" their keys into place into the keyring of their choice. That'd be pretty epic (and also probably incredibly insecure, but still epic)

Awesome solution here. Will reduce the bottleneck for adoption of Hive at the entry level. Glad to see more solutions coming at the instance of Hive's second layer. Truly, Hive is scalable.

I am new this ecosystem, so I would like to learn more about DACTER thing.
Why do we need to create accounts and what kind of accounts those will be and for what purpose?

I hope to learn this stuff which is totally new to me.

When you joined the HIVE Ecosystem, you created an account. There are several ways a HIVE account can be created, this post describes another option for the creation of HIVE accounts. With this option more HIVE account holders, who were previously unable to create an account, will be able to create an account for their family, friends, et cetera.

Anything to ease the creation of accounts is welcome. We need to avoid people getting loads to misuse, but projects will have legitimate users they want to onboard. I can claim lots of accounts and want to give them out.

Love this would be beneficial for my @boycharliefamily school age programming.

I want to apply for grants that will pay the fee to create these accounts for users to take part in a 9 week summer blogging program in Chicopee.

this sounds like an awesome option for app builders to onboard new hivians. Great work man. The more flexible account creation becomes the better

Awesome. Onboarding seems to be the bottleneck to all the awesomeness. More solutions the better.

Resource credits suddenly just became a lot more interesting...

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Yassss Super cool stuff! That BEE token is getting a work out. Seriously though you guys continue to make hive better and I appreciate all you do for it and with it.

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I think this is an excellent solution for account creation for my Hive game. Thanks

You are right, fungible DACT would have been a more elegant solution. But when you hit a wall with something and there is demand, other solutions are developed. And you guys implemented it.

Reads interesting, looking forward to seeing the code.

Hopefully this will allow me to use the built up DACTs that I have. I'm sitting on over 60 now and get a new one every few days. If this makes on boarding easier than great!

This idea would fit into my #crazythoughtsthursday post. It will be really cool to see that happen.

I tried creating an account for someone last week using both ecency and hiveonboard but couldn't.

April is around the corner for Alpha roll out.

Kudos with the hardwork.

cool idea :)

Awesome and rehived :-)

Incredible update! Excited to see how this plays great work team!