So I've been trying to keep up on the next hardfork and all that, wondering when the Hive elite is going to make the play to start stuffing the ninjamine into the DAO. I was surprised it was not going to happen in the next hardfork, but oops I was wrong.
https://peakd.com/hiveblockchain/@hiveio/tentative-hardfork-date-hive-hf24-information
Hive Blockchain updates:
- changing the chain ID to be unique to Hive
- newly powered up HP will have a cooldown time of 30 days before it will be counted towards governance voting
- the HIVE tokens distributed to the DHF fund will be slow converted into HBD to top up the fund over a several year period and to prevent market flooding
- Hived (core blockchain code) has been drastically reorganized to remove all previous ecosystem naming conventions and to reduce the costs and resources needed to run any type of node
- the ability to save blockchain state files for account history as a snapshot to help avoid node replays
- virtual operations fixes (a virtual op is one the blockchain itself makes, without needing keys)
- final airdrop corrections will be issued
the HIVE tokens distributed to the DHF fund will be slow converted into HBD to top up the fund over a several year period and to prevent market flooding
https://peakd.com/@steem.dao/wallet
83 million fucking Hive to be controlled by the elite.
Nothing to see here; don't worry about it!
Fuck: Never Send Humans To Do A Hobbit's Job.
I've already talked about this and now we reach the epic conclusion (sort of). All that's left now is to see if this pointless flood of money brings more value to the platform than the downward pressure on price it will obviously tow along with it.
I call this procedure pointless because if the DAO needed more money... we could just pump more money into it or just create the inflation out of thin air. This network can do whatever consensus demands. Simple as that. By injecting the ninjamine into the DAO it just looks like we stole funds from the outside looking in, especially considering the Korean community, as those funds were obviously not "meant for development".
This has been the plan for a while so this shouldn't be a surprising outcome; it's just slightly disappointing and hypocritical on a certain level. I do believe that we can easily turn these funds into a net-gain for the platform, and if it doesn't it will be painfully obvious how corrupted the DAO fund has become and there will be a big push to remove it entirely. Honestly, I wouldn't bet on that happening. The future looks bright, but shadows are being cast.
The statement is also confusing.
What does "converting" Hive to HBD mean? Will the DAO buy HBD off the open market? Pushing the price of HBD up? That could be cool... maybe...
Will they invent some kind of reverse conversion system that turns Hive into HBD on the blockchain? Sounds like a lot of work, and the concept of turning liquid funds into debt kinda messes up our logic about what HBD actually is.
Also, is a few years really enough time to inject 83M coins into the DAO? Seriously though. What if Hive spiked up to $10 and now those 83M is worth almost a billion dollars? You gonna create 1 Billion HBD? lol... we have less than 5M at the moment. The economics are not clear and warrant a lot more explaining, especially considering this is the first I'm hearing of it and I've read previous posts about the upcoming hardfork. Just decided to toss it in at the end eh? Typical.
Learning experience
Some other things I learned from this post is what a virtual operation was. I always wondered what this was from a programming perspective: an operation that the blockchain demands itself that users do not provide a key for. That's cool! Kinda like the blockchain is its own living entity and it does things on its own autonomously.
Adding the ability to "save blockchain state files for account history as a snapshot to help avoid node replays" is also a super cool thing that I've mentioned in my old posts. I called it "checkpoints". I'm glad they are implementing this, as it will only become more relevant down the road as the blockchain size increases.
Conclusion
This hardfork is going VERY well. You'd think without the centralized leadership of Steemit Inc combined with our most experienced devs jumping ship to do Open Orchard that we'd be totally FUCKED. The opposite seems to be true! We are doing very well, and that's awesome. This is not a FUD post. In fact, I might dump some more ETH and buy Hive with it... who knows!?
Yea this is a terrible idea for several reasons. For one, that funding is not even needed at this point as currently we are already more than paying for the development we have, and like you mentioned, if the current funding rate were not enough at some point in the future, it could always be adjusted. Secondly, it is the same developers getting their proposals funded most of which are also the same witnesses agreeing to convert this HIVE into HBD which looks pretty terrible to the outside for the reasons you mentioned above...
We had a great chance here to just burn this stake and create a bunch of good will going forward for current users and new would be investors, instead we are going to have a giant overhang that is pretty much exactly what we had with steemit,inc but with different names attached to it... Not to mention what happens if HIVE does a 10x like you mentioned.
What ever happened to people building a stake and then working to create value for that stake?
The ninjamine was supposed to be destroyed
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Could use those funds to have more free accounts, more delegations for noobs and maybe reward the active users with small incentives now and again to improve retention, or put some of it to use advertising outside HIVE, its not only about the technical aspects and value but what productivity you can get out of this money
From my point of view the money doesn't even exist. The liquidity does not exist to actually make it a reality. It was quarantined and completely inaccessible. It's the equivalent of the FED printing money out of thin air, except when the FED does that at least the value of the dollar doesn't go down very much. This would be like the FED printing 100 trillion dollars and saying, "Don't worry, we'll inject it into the economy slowly so it doesn't make waves." Fits right in considering only an extreme elite have access to it.
The number of HBD that the DAO can potentially print is actually worrying. If it prints something insane that can totally fuck up the tokenomics.
Does anyone not really understand this?
Me. I do see that many problems can arise, but am not competent to devise preferable strategies.
@edicted's bank account proposal looks like replacing the Fed to me.
I like it. If that is how the HBD is deployed from the DAO, I think that would only benefit Hive, both the token and the platform, through the beneficial economic activity that would result - but I admit I clearly do not grasp the potential consequences, and reckon I'm wrong.
Consider the fact that HBD is a debt instrument redeemable for exactly one USD worth of HIVE tokens in a process of conversion. If too many HBD are printed in a short time, that will very quickly crash the price of HIVE and as it does that also that of HBD because the convertibility of HBD ends when its market cap exceeds 20% that of all the coins put together. If the DAO releases HBD too quickly during a bull market, then it could totally crash the price.
I think the DAO should start issuing HIVE instead when the market cap of HBD approaches some ceiling as a percentage of the market cap of the virtual supply of HIVE.
I'll try to rub my two brain cells together against this information to generate the rude grasp of these facts I am capable of.
Thanks for the simple explanation.
I’m sorry if couldn’t explain it better. It is indeed a bit complicated.
It is the simplest explanation that is best suited to me. Since I feel I understood it, it was admirably simple. It is those that can distill a complex matter into a simple explanation that best understand it.
If it becomes insane, a proposal could be created to fix it in theory.
Also republicans and democrats could fix the government, economy, and imperialism via voting. Systems that become too corrupt can't fix themselves. Just sayin.
Should we sell HIVE now?
I sold 1000 HIVE for LEND token couple of weeks back and not i can get 2300 HIVE for those LEND. Selling has worked out for me.
Good job!
The DAO hasn't become corrupted enough for it to be leeching more funds than the value it creates. Also there are a ton of whales here that will never leech from the DAO (because they aren't devs) that can stop devs from abusing the system. They have a financial incentive to do so. Also even if the DAO was fully corrupted that doesn't mean the network still won't gain a lot of value over time. I'd rather have what we have then Steemit Inc in control, that's for damn sure.
Selling Hive now, an extremely low liquidity coin... right before a potential mega-bull run, could be the biggest mistake ever.
Thanks @edicted!
Here is a crazy idea .... instead of burnimg.it, that will lower our marketcap, share it with the community. Airdrop :)
ew :D
Airdrops put instant downward pressure on token price. In my mind, you only airdrop someone if you think there's a good chance you can get them to bring more value to the network. I can't think of a way to make an airdrop a positive net gain for the network, and even if I could there's an extremely high chance that the brass would disagree and it would never be enacted.
Ironically enough I think Hive is too decentralized for an airdrop to be possible. Airdrops are super useful when one entity has unilateral control of the network. In our case, whales are going to want a piece of the airdrop, which is wholly counter productive.
wouldn't the vast majority of that airdrop go to the top 10-15% of hive owners making the rich even richer?
exactly... the only way would be to have a smart way to increase decentralization. Super high chance the huge stake holders would not approve it because they'd get no airdrop.
Definitely it makes no brain, no way I billion HBD is gonna be created, I just hope we aren't making mistakes. 83 million is definitely huge, like really scary to me
I doubt anyone will care when we are mooning over the next year... but it will become an issue again if the bubble is too big and he enter another 2-year bear market.
Yeah it's true,I guess no one will care, but like you said the underlying effects it's not even mooning but dropping wouldn't really show any sort of stability at all
We just have to be more mindful of the proposals being accepted and paid out and what the network actually gained from those payouts.
Since HBD is pegged to dollars, if Hive mooned to $10, then that would reduce the relative value of HBD, not jack it up to $10. In that circumstance, the economic value of the DAO would be dramatically reduced after converting the Hive tokens in it to HBD at current prices.
If the conversion is made after the bull run, we'd end up with massive amounts of HBD, though.
Hive is being converted to HBD slowly over a years period apparently.
My understanding is that if it is converted prior to the price of Hive rising, it will cause less inflation.
I mean I guess. If Hive gets sold for HBD on the internal market... and then the price of Hive does up and those HBD get destroyed for a dollar's worth of Hive... there will be less Hive coming out than went in.
The ninjamine was supposed to be destroyed, sent to null, not the dao.. controlled by the biggest stakeholders.
Eth is a dead end, the fees are too high, imo.
Hive is looking really good as a currency.
Minting 1 billion hbd could only help, imo.
No way 5 million hbd replace the dollar, nor a significant part of the dollar.
Not that we would do that because the bullies say replacing dollar is illegal.
The squares would never allow it.
The only reason we have 5M HBD is because they are getting destroyed as there is no demand for HBD. We were up to 13M at one point. The way to create demand for HBD is to stabilize it with collateral loans powered by the bank accounts. All these DeFi scrubs would flock to Hive if we offered 0% interest HBD loans.
I thought using it in commerce might be the way to go, but we don't have enough places for buyers and sellers to get together.
@homesteaderscoop is no more.
RIP, or rise like a zombie?
I bought stuff off it.
@tipu curate
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 6/12)
Thanks for the update!
The DAO needs a fix otherwise releasing this amount could be dangerous.
I find it scary that this amount of money will be available through such a bare bones and easily abused system.
Very much this^^^
It probably should just be slowly burned to match new coins being created. Just a thought. Or, maybe, set it as a prize fund to make some new whales. I think we should close this book on our history.
I honestly don't understand 1/2 of what you write, but the parts I do understand keep me coming back for more. I love your write-ups on the state of the chain and various other things.
I was in favor of burning it.
Yup.
By increasing inflation, greater talk about efficiency and accountability of DAO funds comes into play. If increasing inflation overall is a huge problem, diverting author and/or curation rewards could also be considered. I doubt it would affect the posting quality or non-milky userbase that much.
Fortunately, the 83 million trickle is perhaps slow enough to have a low impact.
I guess the next question is will a larger DAO attract many talented developers who are non-insiders? One can only hope.
Being inconsiderate of money as a principle, I'm a bit shocked at the discussion of the conversion to HBD you undertook. I hadn't given it thought, but now that I've read your thoughts, it's far more meaningful and needs consideration.
I hope to benefit from more thought on this issue from you. I'm at a loss about potential consequences or preferable treatments.
Thanks!