"Tribalism" and "antagonism" have unfortunately been the words I would most use to describe this short time we spent apart from STEEM.
Sometimes the "tribalism" meant unity against oppression like it was the case with the STEEM takeover, sometimes "antagonism" was in service of a just cause like in the case of Justin Sun stealing funds directly from user wallets.
But we have to be honest and admit that sometimes our tribalism and antagonism was misplaced and unfair. Something I have found myself being guilty of as well.
With each "revolution" a new power structure emerges.
When HIVE was created all those close to @ned finally got their spot in the sun. They used to be there trying to get a place by his side with heavy bags hoping they could influence him to make something of STEEM. Months and years went by with them deliberating how to not have a social media platform that literally gives out money to its users, simply die.
They failed.
With their failure they resorted to "lower" methods, those more destructive for STEEM, methods of increasing their personal benefit with little regard for anything else.
They created tight-knit groups, circle jerks, they selfvoted for most of their VP, they spammed the platform, they used their downvotes to attempt silence critics.
Those of us that didn't care about their downvotes they demonized. Fortunately most of these people are gone, with only a few remaining. "Stinc" was bad, so anything that would replace it was instantly thought of as an upgrade. Im still waiting for that upgrade to be delivered.
What we ended up seeing was the funds originally intended for the betterment of Hive severely misused. Given away undeservingly to those that ended up packing their bags, dumping what they were given and quitting Hive, having taken the most they could.
I've been following the "behind the scenes" action for quite a while now, watching in disappointment the multitudes of "slack groups", "teams", "foundations" that do nothing but dissipate responsibility and achieve nothing in their everlasting impotence. Only purpose being to convince you that them, the members, are "important", "influential". That theyre friends with the "big guns". A pin for them to wear.
I wouldn't have a problem with their self-assigned titles, the "Hive outreach masters", the "marketing gurus", the "assistant to regional manager Dwight Shrutes" nor would I mind them thinking they're some kind of "gatekeepers of Hive knowledge" if only those groups didn't actively make Hive worse off.
A good example of that was what happened during the slack drama of 2020 with Cryptofinally and Coruscate when all of those "important ones" got together and started bad mouthing the biggest female crypto influencer on Twitter. Drunk on the success of the twitter campaigning the community brought on, they smugly decided on behalf of everyone that we didn't need these women talking about Hive to their tens of thousands of followers (aka simpsπ).
They instead sided with the worst troll in the history of Hive and Steem, and not only piled on Cryptofinally, convincing the community that she was somehow "bad", but also decided to bad mouth another influencer, Coruscate, a long time community member, for no other reason then her being a girl on Twitter like Cryptofinally.
To add on to this absolute stupidity, @cryptofinally actually talked to Charles Hoskinson, the co-founder of Ethereum and founder of Cardano and convinced him to reach out to Hive. That's what these influencers can do. But we dont need that, do we?
This brings me to the point of this post; not only do these "teams" do idiotic things to influencers like I mentioned above, they also do it to members of the community. Some of you are aware of the @hbdpotato issue where 191 000 HIVE, or approx. 37000 USD, is being held under the custody of former Steem and Hive consensus witness, @thecryptodrive, who is now focusing on developing his own platform, BLURT.
The funds were initially going to be returned before a smear campaign started against him. This is again something I followed behind the scenes and if im completely honest, if they went after me like that I'd tell everyone to fuck off and give nothing back. But i guess some folks are nicer then I am. lol
A telegram comment was dug up @thecryptodrive left to a STEEM user where he is NOT badmouthing STEEM in order to get this user to use Hive. I mean, I'll shittalk TRON all day but if I want to onboard a TRON user I'll definitely take it down a notch, or 50...which is exactly what @thecryptodrive did. He basically told the Steem user in a diplomatic manner that maybe Steem will come right one day, but at the moment, Hive is the best decentralized alternative. The screenshot of this was shared in Slack, his words twisted to mean he was a Steem supporter and everyone was tagged and rallied to start dropping their votes from @thecryptodrive's witness. Within a day or two he was out of the top 20 and all his work to get there over the years was nullified.
"The Team" basically decided that someone else was supposed to get paid instead as consensus witness, so it was important to demonize him. To top it off, once he was later found out to do the unthinkable, the crime of all crimes, oh no!!!, he was kicked from the Slack.
What was his crime, you ask?
He went ahead and made Github commits as a BLURT core member, which he went on to co-found. I really dont blame him. Instead of applauding someone's efforts to create something on their own, at worst case at least developing a partnership between platforms, what we ended up with is an active campaign to demean him and attack the Blurt platform.
You should have seen the #Koinos chat, a project created by the ex Steemit.inc team and how everyone shit on the potential of that platform as well for no reason before anything was even revealed yet..
The big guns didn't like him so it was ok for the rest of us to hate him as well. It would even score us points.
That's the part of this I personally hate the most. People not thinking for themselves and instead joining a mob that "follows the stake" regardless of how deplorable the action.
I like this guy. He has lots money and lots people know him. If he says this guy is bad, it must be true.
I like a good laugh like the other guy but ever since the launch of Blurt many from the Hive community have attacked the platform with social attacks, repetitive dick gif spam and some even going as far as setting up an RPC with 60 accounts, exploiting a transaction which didn't incur fees in an attempt to bloat the chain and put a damper on the Raspberry Pi witness rollout.
I mean, why would you do that? Why waste your time on something like that? If it was a point of attack for the platform, there are always ways to make that known.
But no, when someone is made a TARGET then it must be ok being all kinds of asshole towards them. Dont be morons!
Speaking of those, one of the reasons I even reached out to @thecryptodrive is because of the most recent interaction I had with one of the Hive witnesses.
As some of you are aware, I am trying to bring marketing to Hive after 5 years of inaction from various groups (that list is simply too long). Because of that I've been talking to many of the witnesses and @themarkymark was one of them. I was aware of his deep dislike of me, which is still a mystery to me since I've never actually been in any kind of conflict with him, but was hoping that he was reasonable enough to put the good of the platform above his own personal biases. I honestly did not expect him to vote the proposal, I was mostly interested to see if he was going to use his influence to actively attempt to kill the proposal behind the scenes.
(something he has done in the past)
When I asked if he will actively oppose the proposal based on his personal antagonism regardless of the actual merits of the incoming proposal, his answer was:
Isn't that what everyone does.
Up 'till Tuesday I was voting Markys witness regardless of his antagonistic behavior towards me. I did not care about his opinion of me as long as I believed he worked towards bettering Hive.
Once he openly admitted that he cares more about his petty squabbles than he cares about Hive's future I removed my vote. I would encourage everyone to reevaluate which witnesses they are voting for. Consider for yourself if people like that deserve your vote. They've already helped destroy Steem and leeched as much value as they could. Now they want you to forget that. I would be willing to forget if they didn't work to hurt Hive now.
Let them take what they have and let's send them on their merry way.
https://peakd.com/me/witnesses
All of this really opened my eyes to the problems Hive is facing and why they rarely do get fixed, so I went ahead and tried to fix at least a minor one.
I picked up some of the comments Marky has been leaving and since his response to my inquires was a telltale sign of his approach to things, I knew it wouldnt be too difficult to get this one thing done. That one thing being the return of the HBDpotato funds..
Since themarkymark doesnt actually care about these funds being returned, writing these comments, a post, only served to antagonize @thecryptodrive further which in turn ensured no funds are returned, he found it at least a good opportunity to pretend like he's doing something.
"See these comments, I'm actually trying to get these funds back."
Lol. That's not how you get those funds back and he knows that. I mean its laughable nonsense only fools would be convinced by, but the appearance of effort is maintained.
He deemed Thecryptodrive an easy target and bullies love those. The 10 cent spammers and those marginalized by the inner group are Markys favorite target. He can go after those publicly.
The bigger fish? Well he deals with that behind the scenes. He wouldnt want to look bad and his witness to suffer, would he? lol.
All it actually took to get these funds back to the community is, you guessed it.... talking nicely to thecryptodrive.
I didnt have to shittalk him in Slack, I didnt have to try and convince everyone how he's a shit person, how BLURT is terrible, or be a sneaky troll taking digs at anyone.
I just asked him:
Hey man, the HBDpotato funds, wanna give them to the community?
To cut this shortπ...
@thecryptodrive has decided to multisig the @hbdpotato account with me, which means I'll have to sign the transaction for the funds to be moved. Since im not really techsavy in that regards I really want to thank @fbslo for helping set it up. His help was essential in making all this work.
Please note however that the @hbdpotato bot will stop working as it is not geared up for multisig support as yet. Luckily the bot is idle anyway because HBD is above 1 USD.
I'll leave it to the community to decide if it should be upgraded and continue running or to decide where the funds should go.
We can burn these funds, we can send them to the DAO or we can keep them there to be used for the incoming Hive marketing proposal in case its accepted. That would really help to set up marketing right away instead of having to wait a month for the funds to accumulate. If the proposal doesn't pass inside a few weeks the funds would be sent back to the DAO.
What do you think should be done with the funds? Let me know.
Ill leave it to the community to decide.
PS: Firefly has been off the air for almost 20 years.. It's time to move on man...
I had no idea about this drama. I was a little busy IRL. I have had some brief interactions with @thecryptodrive and I am active on BLURT. He seemed like a good person who you could have civil negotiations with. It sucks to all these unnecessary drama that is keeping HIVE as bubble of its own.
We are long overdue on marketing. My vote is to spend the money for that (Preferably Brave ads as the audience is likely familiar with cryptocurrency already). I think this is the way that would benefit HIVE the most.
If not DHF is a good idea. The issue I have with it is that DHF funds are not being used that well. For an example, I see massive potential for DeFi with feeless and fast 3 second transactions. @disregardfiat and @aggroed both have proposals for this that are still not funded. @aggroed at least has his other projects to bring him income. @disregardfiat has been doing a lot on his own.
Return the funds to the dao please, it's what was always promised..
Getting the 'tater funds back is a win - don't muddy the waters with personal fights and other proposals..
firefly will never die
π€
Ill do a Dpoll in a day or two.
Well, circumstances change.
Im personally leaning towards burning it rather than putting it in the DAO potentially leaving it open towards being missused.
This way everyone benefits equally.
The waters are muddy as is. Exposing actions of clowns like the one mentioned above helps clear up the water just a little bit.
Good job taking things out of context. I said you are the last person I would want in charge of Hive marketing. You are a troll.
Return the funds to the DHF fund is my vote. There is another solution been worked on and there is no reason you should be handling it.
Now is he going to return the 300K steem he has been using to hand out leases?
I think he does a good job. It's decentralized and he steps up and gets it done.
About the steem i think you are right, but to be fair, I was against HDB potato from the start because it was a really bad solution and I think HDB needs a fix.
The weird solution to get it stable is not really cool and looks super amateur from outside views. I would prefer to remove and make a loan system out of it.
Not a single thing was taken out of context. I dont share DMs but you are more than free to share them. Surely they would prove im lying or taking things out of context.
Everything i wrote above regarding your response is true 100%.
There absolutely is a reason i am handling it. Because none of you could handle it.
But that is the point isnt it.
I dont give two shits about STEEM, but its funny how quickly youve found another thing to complain about and throw mud at someone ignoring everything else.
Let me give you some advice.. You care about the STEEM youre talking about?
Go handle it. See how i did it?
And im just a troll so im sure you can do better. π
Youre such a clown.
If I am not mistaken, the original promise of the project was to send the funds to hdf (dao) once there is no longer need for it. If thatβs case, I would say, original promise should be honored and funds should be sent hdf. I could be wrong though. In any case, whatever the original plan was, would probably be a better option.
That is a fair argument. I would say that circumstances have changed so that no longer applies but you will be free to vote on it. Ill do a dpoll in a day or two.
Stick with the original plan. If people want to burn funds in the DAO, that should be treated as a different proposal. If we are not consistent, we are no better than STEEM.
There will be a Dpoll. Id say circumstances have changed enough for that not to apply but everyone will be free to vote and have their say.
Ill weigh it for stake.
As someone incredibly new to Hive, I have no idea what you're talking about :) Although a bit unnerving, this post was very informative. Honestly, it is hard to tell who the good guy/gal(s) are here, but I know that will become easier with time. Although my opinion is insignificant in the scheme of things, I think I represent many people who know just enough to participate, but not enough to form an intelligent stance on their own. We rely on the members who have this superior knowledge and dedication to the platform to help guide the community. In short and with the utmost respect, for Hive to succeed, ya'll need to get your shit together. Back to the peanut gallery I go!
Its prolly best you dont. Once youve been around Hive for a longer time you get an understanding how things work behind the scenes. This was just a short glimpse into things and as a new user it shouldnt concern you much.
That is true but as a new member i would highly, and i cant stress that enough, recommend you ignore whatever you might have read here. This is not a very popular position to hold in regards to things regardless of me being right or wrong.
I essentially brought back 40k USD to Hive and not a single whale account that votes stuff like this, @blocktrades, @theycallmedan, etc. voted this post. 1 did downvote it.
Its a complex system you need to know your way around. Do your thing and stay away from politics starting up.
Your candor is incredibly refreshing. Thanks for the feedback!
You can't complain about not getting voted when you also bring up stories people would prefer forgetting...
Even if you believe you were objective, they might not agree. I am sure they would appreciate you getting the funds back.
While no doubt there is much of the drama I completely missed out on regarding @cryptofinally because I wasn't really paying attention, my take on it at the time from the limited posts I saw was that she started getting downvoted for the most appropriate of reasons, disagreement with rewards (she often had very high rewards on posts with very little content...I don't recall if it was through self voting or not), and took it personally, referring to downvoting as stealing or something like that. I understand she was also being harassed by some individuals but on a supposedly censorship free platform that is going to happen. I don't think you'll every convince people who are assholes to not be assholes. You have to learn how to use the tools available to deal with it. When some tried to calmly and rationally explain what she could do (posting in her own community, muting users, etc.) she didn't appear to be interested. I was left with the impression that she was here to make money and didn't care about much else. She didn't seem to want to understand how the platform worked. But maybe I'm wrong about all of that. Like I said, I wasn't really paying attention.
Sure. But instead of supportive efforts it all devolved into shit talking from the community and the inner circle.
It wasnt only unfair it was damn stupid.
Some tried to explain, then millions of HP shittalked, many more provoked her, etc. etc.
The overall situation was dealt with incredibly badly which takes me back to my original point that no one from the inner circle, from the people that like to give themselves titles and consider themselves important did anything to alleviate the situation, none of them thought, "hmmm, whats the smart move here". They saw what "stake" was saying and they went along with it.
Because thats the easiest thing to do. Jumping on the bandwagon and leting someone else drive you along.
Unfortunately this behavior is one of the bad aspects of human nature - its not exclusive to Hive or even crypto.
Agreed, i still think that the way HIVE is set up, those with high influence can have an easier job swaying the community in a "smart" direction instead of making decisions based on "feeling" or whatevers popular.
Absolutely right!
Yes, I and others made a number of attempts to try to help her understand and use the platform effectively.
There was some criticism that crossed the line into sexual harassment of her at the end though.
It pretty much started with that.
Cool how are you thinking of getting the community to weigh in? Proposal votes, comments? I still really would love to see a decentralized voting protocol implemented that all interfaces could interact with.
Also Hive is a small town with small town drama... I hope we become a big city where the chances of bumping into any "town busybodies" are incredibly low just by the numbers, but also because people will be hanging out in their own communities where they find value. Perhaps the issue is that we know any of the names you're talking about, it would be best there were so many people on Hive that ALLLLLLL of us disappear into general irrelevance to the masses and maybe we just remember the old days when we knew almost everyone. Big city will have another set of issues of course. (In all fairness i hope we get so big posts that try to complain about one group throwing people under the buss by throwing another person under the bus don't get much airtime... but good job working with cryptodrive anyway)
On another note learning how to build a system that handles these things while still maintaining decentralization and true ownership are perhaps a benefit.
It would be cool if we had a decentralized voting protocol, maybe something as simple as the poll system on twitter.
Unfortunately we dont. Ill just do the old fashioned.
Use comments and add up the stake and votes per option. Shouldnt be too hard. I dont expect more than 100 comments anyway.
A small town or a big city, everyone knows who the mayor(mayors) is (are).
https://dpoll.io would be perfect for this imo
Are you going to do a post for it? I hope this is not the post it's too long and too full of personal drama... can you do another post where we stick to the issue and we can comment there?
Ill consider it.
Yeah i don't really want to be a part of this post (more than i have) as it is or push any attention to it ... i hope you'll understand. So i hope people don't interact with it and we do another post talking just about what to do with the funds.
He has killed proposals in the past through sneaky back door dealings so showing any interest, you being involved with Peakd, was probably not the best idea. Anyone that wants to weigh in and has a proposal running can DM me directly.
unfortunately, the HBD system is broken (no convert "HIVE to HBD" function for symmetry when HBD is above $1, HBD not stable compared to other stablecoins, debt ratio is too high) and HBD also increases HIVE debt and causing the yearly inflation of HIVE to grow substantially in a bear market.
I would vote for returning the funds to the DAO / DHF.
Broken beyond help, it needs a rewrite.
This is a lesson learned for our decentralised community.
I stay away from politics and try to help HIVE in anyway I could.
Answer to your question is I think you should burn it
Yeah, I agree.
Even if it was meant to be DAO, there's too much bad blood and grief attached to it. Let it burn.
I am leaning in that direction as well.
Well done on getting agreement that these funds be returned to the community.
As they came form the HPS they should go back there.
You've done an interesting potted history of the dirty laundry of Hive.
While you are right about many of these things, what it shows is that Hive is a real community of committed humans - active, vibrant and sometimes downright bitchy!
Id say thats a very tactful summation of my post. π
A toast π» to that, !BEER
View or trade
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BEERfrom @manniman for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
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π
Looks like my leo autovoter needs a whoopin'! Good write-up dude
Agree, be BM to crypto influencer is not the smartest thing. Thanks to bernie :D
I would say burn.
The Steem HDB fund could be used to buy hive and burn it too, but not sure how much of the community would agree with it.
It's not Hive so is a weird situation.
Overall my respect, to you and @thecryptodrive good job. We should make a proposal for the burn. Marketing could be a good use too, but we have another proposal for it, so I think let's do stuff less complex and simply burn it.
As i said, whatever those that care enough to weigh in decide is fine by me.
Probably just continue running hbdpotato if it's still useful, otherwise marketing for sure.
My witness node - Stream on Vimm.tv
There will be a Dpoll where you will be able to vote.
posto se slazes da je neke stvari bolje precutati za vece dobro, jel mislis da je ovaj post bio pametan? Teorija zavere "sabotiras sopstveni predlog" :D
Sto se tice sredstava, burn it or make a marketing proposal and also use that funds to finance it.
And about the DAO proposals, i can like or don't like someone or think that they are not doing a good job, but if i can't do better i will not really complain, and i heard a lot of complaining.
for example, is keychain doing enough work on the project for those funds? i have no idea, but i know i use it every day and it made my life here easier. If i had the knowledge to make new keychain i would do it and say look i made this and i will develop it for half of the price...
Post je bio potreban. Bez posta nebi bilo para nazad. ;)
Exactly. I feel i can do far better, thats why im doing something.
They take money undeservingly from the DAO and im helping get money back to HIVE. In 5 years they werent able to deliver marketing to Hive/steem, ill do it in 2 months.
Well sure, you cant know. Id say probably not, but ok. For Netuoso, for example, you can know for sure. He had two proposals running and sat on his ass all day, by his own admission. He laughed his way off HIVE to the bank.
and that is great if it happens. i don't even expect from developers to know anything about marketing.
that still don't change the fact that i can't make new peakd or keychain, or what ever is funded at the moment.
I would like more transparency, responsibility and reports for all projects that are funded, that would be nice.
I just hate the way DHF works and just hope that some day they will be able to see some bigger picture, instead of fighting and sharing the funds between them.
That line ribbed me good. Lol
Too bad he is still doing the "flag people that criticize him" thing. Unless the behavior is brought to light and he loses witness status, not sure it will change but hope for his sake and others that it does.
I think the funds should be returned to the fund, as it was initially proposed.
Good job for getting a constructive dialogue going.
I don't know anything about this drama and I'm sorry if Coruscate had a hard time, she is a good girl and valuable to HIVE.
I had a crazy idea today and reading this post, I thought it would even be possible in another dimension. Imagine a marketing-only DAO where 20 top HIVE representatives are chosen for PPRR and marketing and the community chooses them as the witnesses.
The whole DAO is full of developments and no marketing. It would be great to have your own and with these funds it would be a good start.
It could be a second layer solition, even with a token of its own, maybe I'm saying crazy things XD.
You could burn more then the whole Market Cap of HIVE into Adds and Campaigns without achieving actual mass onboarding. Weβre not there yet.
Itβs exactly the way Dan always describes it, DApps need to feel as good or better then Apps. I donβt see that yet.
Return it to the DAO or burn it IMO.
1 proposal should be created for each solution regarding these funds and launched at the same time, whichever reaches higher after a given certain time is adopted (burned, returned to DAO, or keep the potato rolling).
I think he wants to use a stakeless voting π³ by ballot Count only on DPoll. Last time I checked my Chain had 15 accounts :p
Also it should be possible to vote for several options.
This method doesn't make sense to me.
Psst, don't talk too loud, people have emotions!
A dpoll has been set.
changing them to hive will bring HBD down, correct? maybe do that and then burn them?
Good job. I don't like to pick sides on stuff like this because so much goes on that I don't know about but great on you for getting the funds back.
Fuckin hell that was a decent sized post.
Dump the funding back into the DHF pool where it came from is the best course of action.
First, great job getting the funds back. Wouldn't mind if they were used for the marketing proposal, the DHF or a burn. You got them back you choose.
Another important person who got the hate from the hive community is @exyle. He was 100% steem through and through. He just disagreed with the way Justin's funds were frozen first, and since then it only became worse. He now stopped posting content that I really enjoyed watching.
I also disagreed with the way witnesses froze his funds, there was more room for communication. But in hindsight, I am happy where we are now.
The cryptofinally story is a bit over exaggerated though. Many proposed solutions, she didn't care about them.
nice!