Justin Sun made sure that there won't be any Steem proposals approved ever again. What makes you think that he cares about Steem really? - Long live Hive.

in #hive4 years ago

For the past 13 weeks, the only reason I used to login to my Steem account was to transfer my STEEM weekly payments from the power down I had initiated 3 months ago to the exchanges.

I know I did the right thing.

And if I could travel back in time I would have initiated this power down the very moment I read those rumors linking Justin Sun and Steemit.com.

When there's smoke there's usually a fire too...

So here we are...13 weeks later which felt like an eternity, my power down is finally completed. All I was left with is bitterness and some 70 SP just to remind myself how a super wealthy single entity managed to destroy a really promising project.

I have no regrets for the thousands of hours I spent on Steem. Besides it was my gateway to an entire new world. The world of crypto.

I stayed there and also invested in that project for everything it represented and stood for up until its acquisition from that fucker.

But when I realized that it's hopeless to fight for its survival...powering down my stake and never look back was the right thing to do. And I was one of the lucky ones, considering that there were people whose stakes was stolen overnight.

You know...some 65 or so accounts...most of them big stakeholders and witnesses...23 million tokens were gone overnight....Ya, I was definitely one of the lucky ones.

That place is a joke right now. Trust me on that.

For a moment I thought I should power down the remaining 70 SP I have sitting on my wallet, but then again I wanna be a pain in their ass from time to time and I wouldn't want to have RC issues when the time comes.

I took a last look at the top 20 witnesses on Steem...Most of them are a joke...

Visited the proposals page using Steempeak....and surprise surprise!!!

20200622 22_57_02Proposals _ SteemPeak.png

There is not a single proposal approved.

As a matter of fact there isn't even a new proposal submitted ever since the entire community migrated to Hive.

And wanna know the best part?

Justin Sun made sure that there won't be ANY proposal approved till the end of times. How? He simply used his ~ 70 mill SP and voted in favor of @gtg's return proposal.

20200622 22_38_41Proposals _ SteemPeak.png

What's left to be said really?

In case you had doubts whether moving to Hive was the right thing to do, I am telling you it was the smartest thing you could do. Period.

This guy obviously doesn't care about progress and development.

He is just showing off his power to everyone and wants them to know that he is in charge...

Amazing how he ruined all those cool things that people kept building for the past 4 years within weeks...


Reminds me of the old phrase 'bull in a china shop' (forgive that it's both racist and sexist). It illustrates that power combined with incomprehension lays waste to useful development and production.

I do completely agree with you on the points you make here. However, there is one more point that seems useful to consider about the whole event, now that most of us have perspective afforded by being on Hive, where the founder's stake isn't available to be sold to become such a destructive force.

China shops shouldn't have barn doors. DPoS is a barn door.

The folks that had their stake stolen on Steem retain it on Hive, and while that's a good thing, it also reveals that governance remains vulnerable to large concentrations of stake, or collusion from such accounts with very large stakes. While they do certainly have both the right and the power to agree with each other and govern themselves and their stake as they will, there needs to be functional limits on what they can govern solely based on stake, or power becomes nothing more than a marketable commodity.

Dr. Evil could rule the Hive just by buying those stakes, just like he did on Steem. The only difference is that on Steem he only needed to buy one stake.

There really does need to be an additional factor necessary to govern Hive besides stake, and I think no one better should understand this than those who had their stake stolen on Steem, because that's how it was done. Someone with more stake than them just took what he wanted, and it was theirs. I dunno what it is we should mitigate stake with, and I hope those ~65 accounts give it thought.

Perhaps they can come up with ideas I haven't to protect their stake on Hive that are just as applicable to protecting the stake of all of us, because right now, except for some technical tweaks Hive is just as vulnerable to that Sybil attack as Steem was. Rather than code tweaks, sound principles should be the foundation of the security of our stakes, and our Hive IMHO.

It's been the SOP to revile @ned, and there's some reason to be disappointed he didn't do more when leading development of Steem, and that he sold. But before he sold he didn't do with the stake what Sun Yuchen did, and he didn't do it for years. He also conveyed a governance vision of Steem that mitigated stake using oracles, which would limit people to influencing governance to one account, which would add a layer of human presence to governance rather than just tokens. Not everything he did was pure evil, is all I'm saying, and perhaps 1a1v is potentially something Hive should very carefully consider as a means of keeping all our stake, and Hive, secure from the barn door of DPoS.


Totally agree mate. I still think we are exposed to such attacks. The truth is that one needs to spend enormous amounts of money to do that but it’s still a possibility.

I am sure when the time is right he will steal all the funds in the SPS by writing his own proposal and voting for it. With a huge 1 day payout. He will then sell it and try to cash out.

Unfortunately for him he can only receive daily payments. 1/100 of the total each day.

Let's hope Hive can carry the spirit and promise of what was envisioned for a blockchain-powered social network.
If we can see an increase in original content by creators and honest discussion in the comments; I am sure it will attract new users who will add to the community.

At the end of the day it's totally up to us...

If I was in charge of Steem I would have done the same thing.
I would be the one who wants to decide where funds go and what gets developed.

Centralized leadership and direction isn't necessarily a bad thing,
in fact that is one of the biggest drawbacks of decentralization.

However, I think in this case we can definitely come to the correct conclusion, lol.

I think he must be getting ready for his pump/dump play or the token migration or whatever the fuck he's doing.

I generally find your philosophical musings agreeable with my own, and both of us are pretty in favor of decentralization. Yet here you illustrate the problem of governance by the Big Man.

We should find a way to limit our ability to become the Big Man, so that governance remains nominally decentralized on Hive, to ensure what happened to Steem doesn't happen to Hive. So far, neither one account nor a group of like-minded account holders, have arisen with sufficient stake and pyromaniacal intent on Hive.

But it's just a matter of time before it happens.

You have an incisive mind, and demonstrable grasp of complex technical interacting mechanisms. How would you combine 1a1v with DPoS to ensure that neither a Big Man nor the mob be able to impose on Hive destructive policies? I suspect the two mechanisms are sufficiently opposed to each other to serve to do so.

I just want to enable society to have the ability to conduct it's affairs going forward in a world that Big Men have deployed mobs to ruin, just as Sun Yuchen has ruined Steem. Hive has a good start on being such a vector for society, but remains vulnerable to money power in exactly the same way Steem was.


Base-layer communities can now control their currency directly. If at any time a community is being lorded over by a currency that no longer serves them, they will fork to a new rule-set that does serve them.

The problem with this are the community splits. When projects fork like this it fragments network effect and becomes a step back in a lot of ways. However, as long as that community is generating value and consensus serves them the benefit of that should be far greater than choosing to bow to the previous empire.

More and more opt-in communities will pop up. This creates more and more options, competition, and free-market. Eventually a few good projects will have a lot of people on the network, but their will always be others constantly nipping at their heels. With the legacy economy, the way to stomp competition is to impose regulation and burn all the bridges behind you. With crypto, this is not possible. The permissionless open-source flat-architecture does not allow this level of control. We don't have to do anything. We just have to let it happen.

And I keep wondering...Koreans/ Chinese can't see what you're seeing? Wtf are they waiting for? To hold bags full of shit?

They want leadership, they think the Tron Foundation will see it through. Not much else can be said. They believe him. We don't.

Some people only know how to destroy, not build. Thanks for your post.

And he's def one on them

I would have initiated this power down the very moment I read those rumors linking Justin Sun and Steemit.com.

I actually did that. It was the moment I felt so disappointed and really felt that this won't get anywhere. I found so lame the open letters to him... Only a few weeks before that I was dreaming of becoming a dolphin and when the hammer hit us it was all ruined...

You have the opportunity to become a dolphin here mate. And you're doing fine if you ask me ;)

People should know...before their money turn into ashes

History will talk about Justin and steem as an example of how to destroy a DPoS blockchain

That's why we should learn from our "mistakes"


It's important to make sure they can't burn the world then. Limitations on power are necessary to society, because such evil exists. Sun Yuchen sure did a lot of harm, and Steem has been wrecked as a result of the power of large enough stake to act without limitation.

Hive remains vulnerable to the exact same power of large stake. The difference is that a large enough stake existed on Steem, and one hasn't arisen on Hive yet. It also isn't necessary that one account hold that stake, because it can also be a group of accounts that wield that power.

Something needs to mitigate raw money power in Hive governance, and I hope we can find it before people with large stakes start selling out, or dying off, or just changing their minds and becoming less enamored of decentralization. I suggest 1a1v, because society is what Hive is for, society is what is governed, and people are the building blocks of society.

I am not suggesting replacing stake with mob rule. I am suggesting mitigating stake with individual people having some kind of equality of influence on governance. Somehow, mere money needs to be mitigated, and mob rule needs to be avoided. Perhaps somehow the two mechanisms of influencing governance can mitigate each the other so that what happened to Steem can never happen to Hive.

Steem is dead 😂

Like...really dead

He's just marking time until the TRON team is ready to migrate the token and then the chain will be dead.

In the meantime all he has to do is hold up the token price to maintain some level of credibility (which he has none IMHO). There is certainly no scope for new developments on the existing chain! LOL

The same as the real life, arogancy will end in destruction

Posted Using LeoFinance

Time shall tell...

Totalmente, de acuerdo con sus planteamientos. la migración era una necesidad. HIVE está fortalecida. aliriera

I'm just learning about everything that happened while I was gone. WHOA!