Solving the Scalability Issue for Account Creation - no more HP delegations required

in #hiveonboard3 months ago

Today there is another great news to be shared with you!

A quick recap

When this project started a few days ago, I asked the community to help out with delegation to @hiveonboard with the goal to increase resource credits and being able to claim as much account creation tickets as possible and provide them to users who wanna join HIVE with an account creation service without a paywall.

hive_scaling.png

The Scalability Issue

When it comes to on-boarding and marketing campaigns services like hiveonboard.com have to scale very quickly when things go viral. That's what we have seen here over the last few days.

As you would expect it didn't took long and all resource credits and account creation tokens with about 15.000 hp where drained and the service was only capable of offering about a handful of new accounts each day. There are a few people out there who delegated a portion of their HP but it isn't nearly enough to satisfy the demand even if the service is still very young and unknown.

Just imagine if it becomes more popular and people would start ad-campaigns pointing to this service.

The Solution

A few days ago @fbslo introduced me to his open source project called creator - HIVE Account Creator on Github. This software is a Node.js App which can be run on almost any Linux machine and is capable to provide an API for account creation services like this one.

The basic idea:
HIVE stakeholders with a large amount of ressource credits available can provide their account creation tickets without the need of exposing their keys or delegating HIVE POWER.

It's really that simple and I asked myself, why do we talk RC delegation on a blockchain level, when we can solve the problem this way today?

Proof of Concept

image.png

As you can see in this overview, a proxy service (in this case a serverless Node.js function) acts as a proxy between the account creation frontend and the Creator Node.js app which are in full control of HIVE stakeholders.

I'am happy to tell you that at this moment hiveonboard.com is already creating accounts with this solution. A large account holding over 1 million of HP is supporting the project and runs a creator instance for us.

Stakeholder Support

Of course this only works with the support of at least one HIVE stakeholder with a large amount of resource credits.

I'am very proud and happy to you that @cardboard is supporting the project with the @tipu curation service who will supply @hiveonboard with thousands of account creation tickets - so we are ready to support small and mid-range on-boarding campaigns for HIVE now!

Yesterday I have spoken to another major stakeholder who is interested in supporting this project.
So expect even more capacity in the near future.

For now we will monitor this solution and when proven to be rock solid, more account ticket supply will be added. In the meantime make some noise on social media and get people onboard!

No Delegation required anymore

Since no more HIVE POWER on @hiveonboard is required to run this service, all of you who delegated HP (@xxxxxxxxxx, @shmoogleosukami, @fw206, @eturnerx) can safely remove it now.

Really cool that you had faith in this project from early on, but it's not a requirement anymore.

Final Mentions

Thanks for all your support, we are just getting started!
Remember that all code is open sourced, so you are free to use if you like.

50% of rewards from this post will go to @fbslo for building creator and @cardboard for stakeholder support! Thanks for your efforts from early on!

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Quick question, who is showing up as the account creator in this process on the blockchain level? Is it the stakeholder providing the ticket or will it be the account creation service?

The stakeholder.

I wonder what thoughts @howo might have about this.

And could this approach also be used to remove the need to delegate HP to newly created accounts?

I think this is a great idea ! It doesn't remove the need to delegate hp to newly created accounts though, because they will very quickly lack RC to do anything. A good rule of thumb is you need 15 sp to interact at a basic level with the chain.

And could this approach also be used to remove the need to delegate HP to newly created accounts?

The lack of resources from new created accounts is still a problem to be solved. I've got a few ideas for solutions in mind - but one step at a time :)

Just a spoiler here:
Let's imagine we implement a refer-a-friend feature, and @hiveonboard will send a memo to the person who refereed the new account if it was created.

Since (in theory) the newly created account would share a small amount of post rewards to the referrer, there is an incentive to delegate a small amount of HP to him in order to get started.

Another option where community could help right now:
A list of newly created accounts is generated on a daily basis - like this one from yesterday. It would be awesome if anyone could take a look at those accounts and help active ones to get started.

This is massive. It was one of the biggest drawbacks when crypto went viral a couple of years ago and there was a huge delay on getting an account. That and the 7 day window which we can now bypass with tipping. A great result and well done.

A couple of questions.

  1. What is the process for getting people to sign up using this system.
  2. How does this bypass needing rc for using the account.

It doesn't bypass the needing of RC or vests to use the newly created accounts as far as I understand.

It bypasses the need of vested sp to hiveonboard's account to get the account creation tokens. A large holder of account creation tokens or vests is giving these for use instead

It doesn't bypass the needing of RC or vests to use the newly created accounts as far as I understand.

Yes, you understood it right - I have wrote up my thoughts on this right here:
https://peakd.com/hiveonboard/@roomservice/re-borislavzlatanov-qad2ix

What is the process for getting people to sign up using this system.

That's up to the HIVE community to explore. A bunch of people are making noise on twitter for example. I have created a proposal for a BRAVE ad campaign for HIVE (Link). In the unlikely case it gets funded, ads for HIVE would send people to this service in order to hopefully not waste the payed lead.

Another quick sneak peak on what I have planned for this service:
What about refer a friend feature? Just send a quick link like https://hiveonboard.com?ref=niallon11 to a buddy who is signing up and shares a small amount of his post rewards with you - automatically of course.

That's something I wanna explore with front end builder here on HIVE anytime soon.

How does this bypass needing rc for using the account.

It doesn't bypass it at all. Starter accounts without delegation can do some basic stuff and even put a few first posts. Hopefully those people really like what they see and get invested into HIVE. That's what many people here like to see.

There is a plan to present 3rd party delegation services and exchanges after account creation is done. That's on the roadmap.

Another quick sneak peak on what I have planned for this service:
What about refer a friend feature? Just send a quick link like https://hiveonboard.com?ref=niallon11 to a buddy who is signing up and shares a small amount of his post rewards with you - automatically of course.

YES YES YES! Friend referral is A WINNING IDEA!

this, @roomservice talk to @asgarth / @peakd maybe, they're planning something similar I think

Now to layer your refferal idea ontop of this, winning

yep, exactly!

Oh you're gonna like it :D

I will personally help to make sure this referral idea is supported. It's something i have been wanting for FOUR YEARS.

Talk to @fav as he was wanting this referral feature...too

it's @ash here ;) I own @fav too, but don't use it.

hahahahah, i got it mixed up with Twitter!

Minimum ad spend for Brave seemed a bit steep for commmunity projects. Maybe we can start somewhere else.

Adding referral program to hiveonboard sounds like an exciting idea. I will definitely do my part to direct traffic to this new account creation service.

What about refer a friend feature? Just send a quick link like https://hiveonboard.com?ref=niallon11 to a buddy who is signing up and shares a small amount of his post rewards with you - automatically of course.

that's cool, but I would go even further. see how https://hiveinvite.com/public.html does it, but maybe with a better interface.

for example:

I want to give accounts out, but in return I want the user to follow me on twitter, and send me a little messsage (automatically). That way I could check them out, see if they're a bot, and then accept the account request.

Could be setup like gleam giveaways, example: https://gleam.io/6t3i8/10-hive-giveaway

does this make sense?

Edit: I want to use my own RC for this, and help people that need it to avoid SMS or other soft-kyc verification methods

I don't understand why HP delegations aren't needed anymore. I understand the creation request goes to a instance with the most RC available, but shouldn't @hiveonboard be such instance as well? I also understand there's a better and more efficient way to use one's HP, but wouldn't 'the more the merrier' work here as well?

Edit:
A built in referral system would be a cancer and a paradise for spammers. Please don't suggest that.

Yeah I have the same question. How does this model make the HP delegation obsolete?

I understand the creation request goes to a instance with the most RC available, but shouldn't @hiveonboard be such instance as well?

Yes you are right, it haven't made it in the architecture picture but the code available actually is using @hiveonbard as a backup account creator as well.

A built in referral system would be a cancer and a paradise for spammers. Please don't suggest that.

There is an idea around, where there is ZERO incentive for spammers using this. Details on this will follow, there won't be a feature which will encourage spam - I totally agree on that.

Thanks for the mention and reminder to remove.

THIS. IS. GREAT. thank you!

i will not pretend to understand how it works, but happy you found a way to do this.

This is exciting. I stopped campaigning for steemit due to account creation issues. With hive and your new service, I can create accounts easily and onboard friends interested. It's a great development

Hey!
It might be a stupid question, but doesn't onboarding through esteem has already worked this way? Two of my good friends,@freegamekeys and @skaidy96 just joined and as far as I know they could register for free and in an instant, without any delegated HP.
Please lighten me up in this topic.
Also, from what they say the worst thing for new "casual" users joining is that the platform is really confusing - and I can imagine that. Endless amount of dApps, Hive, HP, HBD, voting power and resource credits etc. New users have to do sooo much reading before they have a clue at least what is going on. Maybe a site could implement in-built interactive tutorial for new users or something like that.

It is true that using open source software is almost as good as running RC delegations on the blockchain. How come no one thought of that before?

I am sure there is something I don't understand or don't know about.

This is amazing. Hats off to @roomservice and @cardboard and @fbslo

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FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!
So is the phone verification service up and running also now? Is it time for a social media campaign?

Yes phone verification is working like a charm. 😀

Still missing content on "Learn" section but for creating accounts everything is set.

@roomservice @hivepeople let me know if i can be of help with supplying content for the learn tab in Spanish or translation of anything into Spanish!

Thanks! Will come back to your offer as soon as possible.

Sure i will be here or in discord at the @minnowsuport server http://minnowpond.org you can find me!

Has someone written something yet? If so, I'm very good at editing.....or just tell me what you want written...

I would love to see you involved here! Let's talk in detail in a few days.
Right now, there is another surprise incoming really soon, which requires my full attention :) Bare with me!

yeah, no worries! I am very flexible.....gotta make like 3 tutorials, with video and written....just let me know when you're ready.

if you need help with this, i'd be glad to write it....
I think writing something in a very simple style is best.

That's great, perhaps when I have enough RC to make account tokens I'll also run a creator instance for this system.

Good old @cardboard - great to see one of the best applications on Hive getting onboard! Excuse the pun!

Thanks! But it's @fbslo and @roomservice that made it possible :)

Excellent project. Incredible the progress you've made in the last few days!

This is pretty epic! I just started a classifieds project called @hivelist and was thinking about how to implement a sign on feature using the credits as the account hopefully grows... This is definitely something I will be looking into! I would love to have some kind of Wordpress plugin for sign on and for payments, I am not that good right now though... lol.

Now, this is what I called a great feature to have, might be you can pull in small creator instance too when required.

I think this has to be the best news we've heard so far, we all know this has been a problem for some time, so glad we finally have a solution.

Sounds great, good work from you guys.

But whats with the probleme, that these new accounts have nearly no resource credits for themselves in order to post regulary?

I saw so many new people without HP in the introduceyourself tag. Delegated a few HP to help, but it should definitly should give a "startdelegation" from the moment a new account gets generated with hiveonboard service.

I read under your last article that you are aware of this and are working on a solution to fix this.

Perhaps you can make a "tipu similar" cconcept, like people deposit Hive at your Account which you can delegate to every new Account which gets created by your service and in Return the people who deposit this Hive on your Account get a calculated share out of your hiveonboard curation rewrads and/ore a hive engine token therefore designed.

Or you make a proposal to finance startdelegations for every new account created by hiveonboard.

I think this is very importent, because if new people can not post because of rc they propably gonna think hive is broken and leave, which lead to a mass of unused new accounts.

(im really sure nearly everyone whos new has no fcking clue about resource credits:D)

of course i would support you with oppurtunities mentioned above or other possibilities which comes to your mind.

!invest_vote

have you an witness? would like to support you.

Regarding the lack of RC issue:
There is a solution on the way which cannot be exploited by bad actors.
It still needs some more time to get finished so stay tuned.

Doesn't have a witness node running at the moment - but I like the idea if there is support. Thanks for the offering - I'll consider it :)

We need RC delegations that are under development :)

@urdreamscometrue denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient!
@urdreamscometrue thinks you have earned a vote of @investinthefutur !
Votet @cervisia for Witness

What about the requirement of RC for account operation until the new account gains sufficient HP?

Very cool. Rehived :-)

Anything that helps to onboard more users is golden! I want to try and reach out to casual gamers and help them start playing Rising Star but I can only manage a handfuul with my RCs.

Rising Star The brand new Hive NFT game. Play for FREE now! That deserve’s a !BEER

Sorry, you don't have enough staked BEER in your account. You need 24 BEER in your virtual fridge to give some of your BEER to others. To view or trade BEER go to hive-engine.com

This sounds awesome, hoping that we can soon have a need for a mass onboarding effort to test it out!

This is a very cool and simple solution. Don't they still need a small delegation of HP to get started so they can interact ? Or are they expected to buy that ?

Since the lack of HP for new created accounts is a hot topic:
Yes, I'am aware of it - and there is a solution on the way which cannot be exploited by bad actors. Stay tuned!

Can't wait to see it.

Can anybody help?

this is great, can it be integrated into front ends easily?

I'am already working on this topic. This will be covered in an upcoming post.
Front-ends on HIVE shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel when it comes to account creation.

Front-ends on HIVE shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel when it comes to account creation.

I agree . Looking forward to what you come up with.

I’ve long thought that there needs to be an easy way to transfer account creation tickets.

Among other things this could foster the development for a market and a price discovery mechanism. Are accounts really worth 3 Hive?

This has been discussed by witnesses and had been rejected as far as I understood.

Source: https://gitlab.syncad.com/hive/hive/-/issues/35

I wonder why. More pressing things to work on or philosophical differences?

Excellent project #hiveonboard.

I see that the viralization of HIVE has forced to suspend many registrations.

Is there a way to donate stockpiled account creation tokens?

Not at blockchain level - that's what the off-chain solution described here is for. But it's only recommended when a lot (at least thousands) of tickets are available because the need of setting up a server for it.

Excelente!, es una excelente iniciativa para la atracción de nuevos usuarios a la plataforma!, Que siga el éxito!

This is a fantastic development!
I am bit late to this conversation but I'm just reading this post now...and it's great. I was just thinking the other day to do a how-to use hive workshop here in the Danang for Crypto people and was going to use Travelfee, but this is much better.

While it is probably frowned upon in some sense, I think having an active affiliate program for HIVE would help drive adoption.

While affiliate marketing is questionable sometimes, it also excites marketers to get out there and start promoting. We need an army of free marketers promoting for us.

How this could work ??

  • Perhaps everyone who follows your referral link to https://hiveonboard.com/ then completes the signup process and then completes seven posts over the first month, you get credited with a token (or HIVE) they can sell on the exchange.
  • or something like coin base does where if they complete a certain set of tasks (like watch videos and learn about HIVE and how to use it, get 100 upvotes and post 7 posts) then you can the person who refers you will et 50 hive.

but that's just my thought.
!Happy to see this development