"because according to all I know about science, the mechanics of their engine cannot work."
First off, that assumes Science has a perfect model already, and it doesn't claim too.........This is not "science", but is a biased opinion having nothing to do with any "scientific method".If the information is available, than build it yourself to the "T", and then test it. Were you expecting them to send you some motor to test? And why do you think they owe you anything ? Could it be that maybe most people in this field have come to ignore the super skeptical and demanding who can't even do their own experiments (from the already available info)while pounding on the "scientific method bible"? I know I have at times. I have been working on doing a post on here, one of these days, to help the super skeptics wrap their heads around how this is very much possible, and actually doesn't violate any laws (in short, most skeptics think in terms of closed loop system thermodynamics, instead of open loop thermodynamics, like heat pumps for example) . I'm not coming at you aggressively here, or trying to be a jerk, just some two cents of "real" talk, I suppose, was what I was hoping to offer with this response. I welcome you to follow me for real discussions on these as I post on them. I welcome your reasoning as long as it doesn't resort to ad hominem attacks in order to make points like most skeptics resort to in their "debunking" technique attempts. Have a great day, and know, even if we maybe wrong by your standards of science understanding, at least know most of us do have good intentions with this for the world. PEACE!
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It should not be a problem to send me a motor, unless it was fraud.
I've made a post, and have contacted some high-reputation people who would be willing to test it.
If it cannot be tested, then I declare fraud.
You know they sell these right? Why are you so sure they didnt think you were a fraud that wanted to steal from them? How many corporations have you tried demanding a free product be sent to you for testing before?
What is your qualifications and types of test equipment do you have at your test lab? Last I checked, there are lots of people replicating these over the years, and buying them, and taking classes, and buying plans. If this was really fraud, you would have no shortage of victims willing to do something about it by taking legal action, right? Just my critical thinking on it.
There was a lawsuit, and it was declared fraud.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@alexbeyman/water-is-not-a-fuel-the-geet-engine-scam
" Paul suffered horrendous persecution promised by a powerful Utah political machine determined to make him "go away". He has lost millions in the battle. He had no money left for effective legal representation. He was set up and framed for securities fraud. Paul Pantone's major "victim" in the securities fraud case has been under investigation by the IRS for illegal offshore tax shelter activity involving over a million dollars.
Paul was also betrayed by a spouse with a secret history of drug abuse the state may have used as leverage to have her get Paul arrested for violating a non existent protective order after giving false testimony and committing numerous acts of perjury against Paul in open court.
His lawyer, Gil Athay, negated his duty to inform Paul in a proper and timely manner, about an important court hearing Paul needed to attend in July 2005. Paul didn't find out abut that hearing until several days after it was too late. Athay's neglect damaged Paul's reputation to the court. A warrant was issued for Paul's arrest.
After becoming financially destitute from years of legal battles, unable to pay what his lawyer demanded, and after threats were made to prosecute Paul's wife for substance abuse issues, Pantone reluctantly accepted a plea bargain agreement under duress in October 2004. When Paul revealed to the court that he had accepted this plea bargain under duress a year later, the judge shelved the agreement. The wheels of injustice were rolling.
In December 2005, Judge Royal Hansen sentenced Paul to 120 days in the county jail. Then this Alice in Wonderland Utah judge declared that Paul doesn't get along with his lawyers therefore he is not competent to receive sentencing (even though he was serving his sentence) and would be detained indefinitely under Utah Code 77-15-5(4-5) at the Utah State Mental Hospital.
Under this law, when you no longer trust you attorney and you become reluctant to work with him, you can be said to have a delusional or paranoid mental disorder and you can be put away. Your attorney can encourage the court do this to you, especially if he suspects he was about to be prosecuted for overbilling by his client (Paul Pantone). The court need not consider how much trust your attorney really deserves. Judge Royal Hansen refused to recognize that Paul's old lawyers betrayed him.
Pantone was double booked. He served his 120 day sentence in the county jail. Then he was railroaded by the court to the Mental hospital at Provo where he is being held indefinitely. Significant evidence showing Pantone is sane has not been allowed in court. To date, Pantone has already served his sentence over nine times.
In July 2006, GEET users from all over the nation appeared at a hearing in Judge Hansen's court as grass roots evidence that Paul's GEET technology to run an engine or generator on mostly water - was real and not a delusion (as had been alleged by a corrupt court psychologist unqualified to make such assertions)."
"Would you believe Utah ranks as The Most Corrupt State in a recent Nationwide Poll?"
http://www.lawlessamerica.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=818:would-you-believe-utah-ranks-as-the-most-corrupt-state-in-a-recent-nationwide-poll&catid=117:news-reports&Itemid=219
Here is my explanation of what I think is going on that I left on Alex's post, if you are interested in reading it, here it is:
Seems completely possible to me! Difference is, I can appreciate that the air is 78 percent nitrogen , and liquids tend to have "air" dissolved in it. The amount of air that can be dissolved in water increases with pressure and decreases with temperature. So if you use heat and vacuum, you can get nitrogen gas out of any liquid added to these bubbling setups, like coffee for instance. ICE already run on nitrogen gas from the atmosphere, just no one talks about it. Prove it? Well gas is a hydrocarbon, and the way it works with nitrogen is:
"NITROGEN AND HYDROGEN
Hydrogen can be made to react with nitrogen. Once again, this is a situation not found in nature. Hydrogen ordinarily doesn't exist in elemental form. Even when it is artificially made and it is reacted with nitrogen, the nitrogen isn't being "burned". Rather, it is the substance supporting the "burning." "
http://sciencing.com/nitrogen-combustible-5397514.html
Also, for the GEET case and it's possible "plasma chamber" function:
"THUNDER STORMS
There are also special circumstances in which nitrogen can be combusted. One of these is during a thunderstorm. Lightning causes some nitrogen to react with oxygen, forming oxides.
This is because lightning creates artificially enormous temperatures and pressures. Temperatures under such circumstances reach as high as 30,000 degrees. This ionizes nitrogen and oxygen, stripping them of electrons. Sometimes they will regain their electrons, with no net result. At other times, they combine together, creating the oxides as shown above. The oxides can react, in turn, with moisture in the air. Some of that water comes to earth in the form of raindrops, which enriches the soil."
So it is completely scientifically possible!
Even stars seem to be no exception in using this. Ever see these GEET people also putting sugar packets in the bubblers too? Sugar makes great carbon when burned, which leads to the next mainstream science lesson and what maybe going on in their "reaction chambers"........
"The CNO cycle (for carbon–nitrogen–oxygen) is one of the two known sets of fusion reactions by which stars convert hydrogen to helium, the other being the proton–proton chain reaction. Unlike the latter, the CNO cycle is a catalytic cycle.In the CNO cycle, four protons fuse, using carbon, nitrogen and oxygen isotopes as catalysts, to produce one alpha particle, two positrons and two electron neutrinos. Although there are various paths and catalysts involved in the CNO cycles, all these cycles have the same net result.
The positrons will almost instantly annihilate with electrons, releasing energy in the form of gamma rays. The neutrinos escape from the star carrying away some energy. One nucleus goes to become carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen isotopes through a number of transformations in an endless loop."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNO_cycle
The only thing I want is to test the engine.
No words or explanation will be worth a real life scientific experiment, done by myself, with an engine that the GEET institute says "This engine was built by us, and it already works. You try it, on your own, in your own house, without our interference."
That is the only proof I can accept.
Fair enough, I can respect that. But you say it is the only proof you will accept, while telling us it is already proven a fraud by you. I personally can't except that as 'science', and what lead me to having this conversation. I would be interested in hearing how you would plan going about testing it and what type of test equipment you would use and what you would look for. You don't have to here, maybe a new tread would be better and could earn you a little for it. Who knows, maybe someone maybe impressed enough to buy one and send it to you to test and report on here, or even crowed source it with fellow critical minded skeptics on here. We both dislike dishonestly, so lets do our best in perusing what is really going on as honestly as we can...
I would receive a pre-built, verified-to-work engine, verified by GEET itself, and then I would use it. I would use it to do some minor work, maybe just testing it, and then I would take it apart, analyze it, and then put it back together, and test it again.
The important part is zero outside interference. I dunno how it works exactly, but I also know that it's very possible to fabricate positive results.
Anyways, I say: I accept proof, even though I know it is fraud.
I only claim to accept proof because I must have an open mind on principle.
Declaring it fraud without giving them a chance would be unscientific, so I've offered a chance to them, in order to allow me to actually test it, while giving a harsh warning: Declining my test is proof of fraud.
Which is what they did. I obviously cannot receive a GEET engine, because if I was to test it, it would not work, and they would be proven to be fraud.
As it is, they decline my desire to test it, and ignore it, hoping that they can continue to cheat people out of their money, which is exactly what they're doing when they even convince YOU, a person who is normally very sharp witted, to defend it, without actually testing it yourself.
Of course advanced technology is a glorious thing to invest in.
But technology is linked with science, and science is linked with skepticism.
The only way to know if a thing is true is to test it.
I don't want to be some annoying skeptic, so if you think GEET is worth your money, then go to the seminar. Go and test out their product. Bring it home with you, if you want. Go build one, and test it yourself.
It's your money.
I only give you one harsh warning:
Faith and science are incompatible.
Either you accept a thing is true for no reason, and it's called faith,
Or you test a thing before claiming it is true, and then get others to test it, and understand how it works, and call it science, or partial science.
The actual scientific method is quite a bit more intense than just testing a thing. But eh, it's your money.
You spend it on whatever you think is good technology.
A truly worthy investment will always bring you riches.
An investment in trash will only bring you ruin and lost money.