It’s more just how much time we have spent talking about this one user and she is still determined to ramp up the temperature. I do not agree with you downvotes are worth making this big a deal about. I think making a big deal of downvotes just makes it worse.
Regardless what her KE is she has offended a lot more people than me.
I'm sure you are right about everything but downvotes, and the extraordinarily strong reactions people have to them evidences most people feel they are a very big deal, and they are strongly impacted by them. The principles I tried to support in our discussions were demonstrated in interactions with Karen, and it is those principles and the reasons they matter I have attempted to express. While Karen is only one user and, just like me, isn't absolutely critical to the platform, these events specific to her account have demonstrated the principles I feel are of critical import to Hive, and that is why I have belabored our discussions based on these events. These principles aren't only relevant to one user, but all, or almost all, users, and I seem to have failed to convey that in our discussions, despite my rigorous and extensive attempts to do so. I seem to have miserably failed in my efforts to relate the specific impacts and actions here to those principles that are of existential import to Hive, which has been my purpose.
I hope this statement enables you to reconsider my extensive discussion of these events in light of my belief they reflect on the commonly held perspectives of most people on Hive, and it is that relevance to the entire community and Hive that has been my intent. As someone that has lost >$1M IRL I am fully aware of the emotional impact of the loss of economic resources that underlie the reactions people have to DV's. Perhaps if you calculate the % of economic impact DV's have on the accounts of people being downvoted, and then consider how you would react to your own income being impacted by that percentage, you might gain greater insight into the common reaction of people to being DV'd. None of these impacts and responses are unique to Karen, or her account, but are common to people and Hive accounts, which I have attempted to note in our previous discussions, not to accuse you, but to show they support the principles I believe are of fundamental and existential import to Hive.
If I understand this statement you have made in reply to Melinda ITT, you understand DV's to retain Hive users, while I have observed DV's to have the opposite effect, and this is why I mentioned the departure of users we both observed that directly stated they were leaving the platform specifically because of DV's. I do not seek any other affect from pointing out this observation than to support the principles I espouse in the hope that showing real world events support these principles will convince you they are objectively true and determine the results of our actions on Hive.
While Hive isn't dependent on any one user in theory, because Hive is losing it's userbase continually, and those users are demonstrably stating they are leaving because of DV's, I hope to show you that applying DV's to accounts that aren't plagiarizing, circle jerking, self voting, or using botnets to maliciously farm rewards is counter productive to the success of Hive. My purpose in doing this is not to malign you, but because you have stated your purpose is to benefit Hive and these specific actions are shown to harm Hive by decreasing user retention. I hope to usefully convince you that your application of DV's does not help Hive as much as it harms Hive. I hope that you can find ways to help Hive that do not decrease it's user retention and cause that inadvertent harm you do not intend to do. I believe you want to help the Hive platform succeed, and do not want to decrease it's success.
This is why I discuss real world examples of the results of actions that are contrary to the specific principles and understanding I have conveyed in our discussions. They demonstrate the truth of the principles I discuss which I hope is persuasive and convincing to you. I also want Hive to succeed, and this is why I have spent so much time discussing these specific events with you. I hope we can agree on the principles I show are demonstrated by these events, and can work together to benefit Hive by increasing user retention and also persuading people to reduce their KE, both of which I think are important to Hive, and both of which I have demonstrated achieving here, and elsewhere, with your help.
It’s more just I do not have enough time. I cannot downvote someone, have very open dialogue with the person being downvoted, and then try to lead them out of it.
I can tell them why they are being downvoted by me. I can keep talking to them about it. But I can’t also fix it.
If I fix it, that’s just weird at best but at worst morally precarious.
I cannot tell someone what to do with their account. I can tell someone why I use my account the way I do.
I have a large stake, I am in a position where I can downvote while a small account cannot reasonably do so. Some small accounts do downvote sometimes and that’s encouraging when it happens. But it’s still very rare and honestly I’m not sure if I recommend it. But I’m not going to tell a small account not to downvote, they are using the protocol as intended, so good for them!
I do not agree downvotes are this big of deal. I think people make a big deal about it and it gets worse. I have never had an issue irl where it makes sense for people to bring up all their old baggage when something happens.
Each downvote case is unique. Some are straightforward and some are more complicated. This one is pretty complicated.
But just cause I have a “bad” experience with one downvote situation does not mean I will bring that baggage with me to the next downvote discussion.
I downvote some accounts and it is very productive. Usually it is not productive.
I’m not sure if this case was productive or unproductive… seems like a hybrid if anything 😆
Ah! Thanks for clarifying my confusion.
BTW, I have tried to explain I do not think people should react with outrage, but that they do. I do not think you should be maligned, especially when you take the time to patiently and politely explain, but that you should expect it. I don't think everything is right with the world, but the world is as it is, and I do my damnedest to not be wrong about what it is so I can expect consequences of my actions that are at least close to what I will get.
Anyway, I will respect your wishes and leave you peace from my incessant bloviating about DV's. Hive offers so much more than mere money, I wish we could enable people to use Hive to get medical assistance, manufacturing, construction, transportation, and governance models and ways to implement them. The power of forthright speech to inform people of new technology and means of putting it to work, as well as to secure themselves from danger, is too obscured by mere financial matters.
This one user has a name and this just proves what you are and what I have said you are. @valued-customer is a valued member of Hive, I would be there for him if he ever needed support whereas for you that would be a massive NO. Stop picking on the people who helped me or do you want all the little people to just sit back and watch you all kill this site and stop blaming me for offending people when you are doing this to all the members that have helped me. I now know what I believe....
Who am I picking on?